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153 fish - 1/16/2008 12:57:25 AM
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manwe
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Is there any significance to John being specific about the number fish caught in John 21:11? If so, what is it?
John 21:10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
thanks,
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 1:31:01 AM
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SpongeBlog
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manwe
Is there any significance to John being specific about the number fish caught in John 21:11? If so, what is it?
John 21:10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
thanks,
I've heard it said it represents all the nations of the earth pulled up in the resurrection (aka rapture). It's close now, but the number of identifiable and distinct nations at that time will be 153. I usually stay away from those kinds of Biblical understandings unless the Bible itself gives me supporting evidence to consider it as a possible interpretation. So far I don't know of such evidence.
I recently had a more palatable understanding of the event, and if I can recall the details I'll share it.
edit: I just noticed you emphasized 'not' in the passage, and my understanding keyed off that, too.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 10:00:37 AM
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Lapidoth
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I used to have an out-of-print book called "Theomatics" by Jerry Lucas.
It was the number values of the letters and words in the Bible.
153 is very significant. It wasn't a random number.
I don't recall exactly as I loaned it out decades ago and it was never returned.
Now, I don't loan books out unless I plan on giving it to the person wanting to
borrow it. Seems no one returns things anymore nor do they keep their word.
If I remember the numerical number of the clouds was 153 as in "cloud of witnesses."
Since I don't have the book any longer and memory isn't what it used to be, it's
second hand information at best. lol.
_____________________________
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 10:09:56 AM
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Lapidoth
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I did a little googling:
quote:
In Chapter 3 of Theomatics II, it discusses the passage from John 21:11, where the disciples went fishing, and they caught 153 fishes. This bizarre passage has taxed the minds of many a Bible student. But theomatically, everything to do with fishes and fishing in the entire Bible is based on the number 153. Just a few examples. The following words and phrases have numerical values divisible by the number 153.
FISHES = 153 x 8
THE NET = 153 x 8
MULTITUDE OF FISHES = 153 x 8 x 2
FISHERS OF MEN = 153 x 14
http://www.theomatics.com/theomatics/struct.html
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 3:58:56 PM
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cybrjewls
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We could notice, as an aside, that the number of the catch of fish adds to 1+5+3=9; which number prophetically may signify the earthly rule of the Millennium of Jesus Christ at Jerusalem where after the beast from the earth, who is an eighth king, is judged by desolations decree as recorded in Revelation, then the 9th Kingdom of the Millennium begins.
Otherwise, the number 153 is an odd number as well and is not divisible, at math, by 2.
1 signifies Unity.
5 signifies Grace.
3 signifies Trinity.
And the number of the verse John 21:11 may signify the number of Christ 777 =21 and the number of the remaining Apostles which is 11, after Judas takes his place as the fallen apostle who Jesus says: But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man!
quote:
ORIGINAL: manwe
Is there any significance to John being specific about the number fish caught in John 21:11? If so, what is it?
John 21:10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
thanks,
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/17/2008 12:23:40 PM >
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 4:26:03 PM
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1love1God1way
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Maybe it just means 153 fish....
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 4:36:38 PM
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ta_mosquito
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Maybe it just means 153 fish....
That's my thought, too. Does every number have to signify something?
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 4:53:42 PM
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TJO5
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Hello 1love1God1way,
quote:
Maybe it just means 153 fish....
It is possible. If you were a fisherman,like John, it might impress those who know a little bit about it -the large number without the net breaking.Sort of like saying you hooked a 40 pound fish on 8 pound test line- another fisherman would recognize this as out of the ordinary.
Yours in Christ,
T.J.
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 10:22:44 PM
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MattJones
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quote:
saying I don't think anyone has a real clue regarding the meaning of the number 153. I nevertheless suspect it had significance to John's community -- a significance that is now lost to us. Jerome and Augustine had theories about the meaning. Jerome notes that there were 153 species of fish known to the experts of the time. And Augustine points out that 153 is the sum of each number from 1 to 17. 1,500 years and scores of theories later, no one has come up with any theory more compelling than these.
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RE: 153 fish - 1/16/2008 11:15:12 PM
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sue244
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I think it means that they caught 153 fish. Nothing more nothing less.
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"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 6:58:14 AM
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MattJones
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quote:
I think it means that they caught 153 fish. Nothing more nothing less.
You may be right. But I personally suspect it had a well-known meaning to the original community that relied on the text. Jerome says there were 153 known species of fish known at the time. So the number could suggest that these fishers of men were to minister to a universal audience. Augustine notes that 153 is the sum of the numbers 1 through 17, and a number of writers have come up with a variety of theories from that. But, in the end, your guess is as good as mine. I like to think Jerome was right and the number means the disciples were to cast a wide net with their ministry. But it also could mean nothing more than the disciples caught 153 fish following Jesus' instruction. Or, perhaps, it was intended to keep us guessing at its meaning.
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 10:43:49 AM
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Lapidoth
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On the surface the story lets us know that after we have
exhausted all our efforts {as they fished all night; the fish
don't congregate in the heat of the day} and come up empty,
obedience to the Word supplies our daily needs.
And it is presumed they caught enough that day to keep
their families while they followed Yeshua the coming year.
After Yeshua rose from the dead and ascended back to Heaven,
they returned to their earthly jobs. Yeshua appears to them and
they truly become "fishers of men."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 12:20:15 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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One of the reasons is that God is a God of detail...
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 12:47:14 PM
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LCannon
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Regardless of the 'reasons' this incident reinforced Jesus' power despite the disciplines obedience.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 1:58:05 PM
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MattJones
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There are so many good points in this thread!
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 3:26:27 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1070
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manwe
Is there any significance to John being specific about the number fish caught in John 21:11? If so, what is it?
John 21:10 Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish. 14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
thanks,
There is always meaning when God gives specific details. God speaks in symbols and metaphors. Numbers, colors, objects in the scripture all have meaning given to them. There are some good books out there that speak about the symbolism in scripture, you should look some up.
It doesn't just mean the number of fish else God would not have made a point to put it in scripture. For those who have ears to hear....they will find the truth. There are many in the church who have been given revelatory gifts and this kind of language is very common to them and God has instructed them in how to interpret things.
And a number can be used to mean two things, as God quite often uses prophetic things to symbolize two different events. Both prophetica's understanding and the poster who said she heard it taught to mean the number of nations at the resurrection are both common. It could mean both quite easily. That's how God speaks....gotta love it!
Jer 33:3 - God WILL show hidden things in scripture to those who ask. How awesome that there are layers and layers of godly wisdom, knowledge and understanding buried in verses. I love looking into that kind of stuff!
< Message edited by SD456 -- 1/17/2008 3:33:32 PM >
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 4:16:55 PM
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earthless
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And there are a lot of doctrinally horrific books out there for those that must feel the need to spiritualize every single text of Scripture.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 4:27:10 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
And there are a lot of doctrinally horrific books out there for those that must feel the need to spiritualize every single text of Scripture.
Not to mention all the hidden codes... If such nonsense were all true, it would be like the time before Jesus' incarnation when people were at the mercy of the priests, only now it's folks with "revelatory gifts." Oddly, I can't remember reading that the veil in the Temple was un-rent when Jesus ascended.
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 4:54:27 PM
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earthless
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It's nothing but plain old Satanic Gnosticism repackaged and wrapped for modern Christian consumption.
The same lie from the Garden... packaged and repackaged for the unsuspecting.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 5:11:09 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
And there are a lot of doctrinally horrific books out there for those that must feel the need to spiritualize every single text of Scripture.
I think it is wonderful he has such an inquisitive mind. After all, God made him that way.
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~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 5:22:53 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
There is always meaning when God gives specific details. God speaks in symbols and metaphors. Numbers, colors, objects in the scripture all have meaning given to them. There are some good books out there that speak about the symbolism in scripture, you should look some up.
This is such a tough statement to make so definitively. There are countless numbers throughout the Scriptures that I really see as not having any deeper meaning than the numbers themselves. We are told about the number of livestock Job had. Point was...Job was rich. I don't think it meant any more than that. I feel the same about this passage. The text almost feels like the author is simply bragging about their successful fishing day.
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RE: 153 fish - 1/17/2008 7:45:49 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1181
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2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:20
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.
I think that the Word of God is living and active; sharper than any double-edged sword, dividing between joints and marrow.
I think that God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:15
The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
There is always meaning when God gives specific details. God speaks in symbols and metaphors. Numbers, colors, objects in the scripture all have meaning given to them. There are some good books out there that speak about the symbolism in scripture, you should look some up.
This is such a tough statement to make so definitively. There are countless numbers throughout the Scriptures that I really see as not having any deeper meaning than the numbers themselves. We are told about the number of livestock Job had. Point was...Job was rich. I don't think it meant any more than that. I feel the same about this passage. The text almost feels like the author is simply bragging about their successful fishing day.
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