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A thought provoking read... - 7/20/2008 10:38:57 AM
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jbow
Posts: 705
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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Disturbing actually... I ordered a sample copy of Modern Reformation magazine and am reading through it. This article, which is in the theme of the whole issue, really is making me stop and examine my faith and my whole way of thinking about God.
God work's in mysterious ways for sure. I just got and began reading "Knowing God" by J.I. Packer this week too.
I'd like to know what you think about it.
LINK
J
[Post edited by mod to fix screen formatting]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 7/20/2008 1:14:21 PM >
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/20/2008 5:59:53 PM
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crh737
Posts: 661
Joined: 6/1/2005
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Jbow~
I unfortunately do not find much difference from this belief than some of the so called Christian churches today.
It is all a feel good belief that doesn't wash. They leave out consequences and when that hits, they again willbe lost.
Not like they were found, but a believing soul looking for what they overlooked in the first place.
Again our Saviour picking up the pieces of another misguided soul, leaving the 99 penned up as He seeks the one who needs Him.
So good is our God that He is faithful and maybe take advantage of the trouble times that He has already foreseen.
It's almost like History does repeat itself. I see as in the O.T. when the believers stood upon an altar with baal and God consumed not on that was delightful, but annilated baal as well.
How foolish some folk are, they never looked
CRH
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/20/2008 7:31:32 PM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
Posts: 174
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jbow,
I agree that that was very thought provoking. You might also be interested in checking out the White Horse Inn radio broadcasts or their website. Michael Horton is one of the four regular panelists on this weekly discussion, subtitled "Know what you believe and why you believe it."
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/21/2008 3:12:06 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1360
Joined: 1/22/2008
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jbow,
I wasn't sure if you were asking our thoughts on the Modern Reformation article, J.I. Packer, or both? I haven't read the article. But Packer's book, Knowing God, is one of my alltime favorites, a classic, and one I have taught from over and over again and encourage all to read.
I know that Packer recently parted ways with some people. I have great respect for him so do not doubt that his actions were godly. Anyway, enjoy your reading!  LL
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/22/2008 5:15:03 PM
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jbow
Posts: 705
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
jbow,
I wasn't sure if you were asking our thoughts on the Modern Reformation article, J.I. Packer, or both? I haven't read the article. But Packer's book, Knowing God, is one of my alltime favorites, a classic, and one I have taught from over and over again and encourage all to read.
I know that Packer recently parted ways with some people. I have great respect for him so do not doubt that his actions were godly. Anyway, enjoy your reading! LL
I am asking about the article. I mentioned the book because God brought them both into my life at the same time and I wonder how the relate to each other, The article is really good I think but I am having to really digest it... it is meat, not milk.
I have lately b ecome aware of Calvinism and the conflict between it and other creeds. It surprises me too because it should not be so polarizing. The Bible teaches both election/predestination and free will. I believe both. It is one of those things that we cannot explain, an antimony. If we argue one against the other we weaken the one we argue against and since the Bible teaches both we should believe both. I recently read a really good book called, "When Grace Come's Home", by Terry L. Johnson http://www.monergismbooks.com/When-Grace-Comes-Home-How-the-Doctrines-of-Grace-Change-Your-Life-p-17593.html
He teaches this in the book, the antimony. It is the same thing that Chuck Smith teaches in Calvary Distinctives and IMO should be the belief of all Christians. We should not argue election against freewill. We should believe both even though we cannot reconcile them to each other. We cannot understand everything about God and His grace.
Anyway... sorry to ramble. Yes, I was asskiing about the article and it's comparison of American Christianity and it's, according to the author, AC's gnosticism and inward personal faith as opposed to the historical Church's corporate, external faith of the visible Church and the sacraments.
Read it and tell me what you think. I have no agenda beside wanting to know God's truth. I do not want to start some kind of Calvinism/Arminianism debate. (I do not want to post in that "one stop" thread because it is like a debating club with a few people arguing a point and new subjects seem to be ignored.)
Julien
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/22/2008 5:49:22 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 742
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
Disturbing actually... I ordered a sample copy of Modern Reformation magazine and am reading through it. This article, which is in the theme of the whole issue, really is making me stop and examine my faith and my whole way of thinking about God.
God work's in mysterious ways for sure. I just got and began reading "Knowing God" by J.I. Packer this week too.
I'd like to know what you think about it.
[Post edited by mod to fix screen formatting]
I read Packers "Knowing God" along with Tozers "The Knowledge of the Holy", at least once a year. I believe one of the biggest stumbling blocks to many is the lack of 'right thinking' about Who and what God is. Packer is more academic and in depth, Tozer is lighter and more poetic. They both produce an almost universal response of "Wow!". I can barely make out the script through all the highlighting I have done over the years. 
The article you link to is interesting. I would condense it by saying that our acceptance of the concept of relativism, and the application of it to all areas of life, is the root of most of the errant "spirituality", that is so popular today. When Jesus says, "No one comes to the Father but by Me,"...Do you know what He means? He means, "No one comes to the Father but by Me"! lol
That is simply too dogmatic, too limiting, too narrow, for the world to accept. Especially in this age of relativism. I have only skimmed the article, so this is my first impression.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/22/2008 6:18:13 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1360
Joined: 1/22/2008
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quote:
The Bible teaches both election/predestination and free will. I believe both. It is one of those things that we cannot explain, an antimony. If we argue one against the other we weaken the one we argue against and since the Bible teaches both we should believe both.
Amen to this brother! I will read the article and get back to you. But I know you will enjoy Packer. It's not an 'easy' read but a worthwhile one. LL
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/22/2008 6:23:41 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1360
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I read Packers "Knowing God" along with Tozers "The Knowledge of the Holy", at least once a year. I believe one of the biggest stumbling blocks to many is the lack of 'right thinking' about Who and what God is. Packer is more academic and in depth, Tozer is lighter and more poetic. They both produce an almost universal response of "Wow!". I can barely make out the script through all the highlighting I have done over the years.
Amen to this as well! I have read Tozer extensively as well---and a friend, an older Christian Missionary Alliance pastor (retired), loaned me some records (and yes, I mean the old fashioned records that I had to dig out my turntable to listen to) of Tozer preaching! He has such a down home country style of speaking but it is very fun to not only read but now hear him. I made tapes of the records and just played them for a friend the other night. Anyway, another worthwhile read for sure. LL
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RE: A thought provoking read... - 7/22/2008 8:07:09 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1360
Joined: 1/22/2008
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jbow,
Having now read the article, I can say I heartily agree with Michael Horton. I was in the United Methodist church when the reimagining conference took place (page three of the article). Our apportionment money paid for our church leaders to attend this conference. And, yes, they boldly proclaimed that we did not need men hanging on crosses with blood dripping and all that gory stuff.
I had been writing articles for our church newsletter on what United Methodists believe as well as the teachings of John Wesley. The pastor of our church put a stop to my newsletter contributions because he did not want the people in the church to hear what was clearly stated in our church discipline and the beliefs our church was founded upon. (I was taking all of the material directly from UM materials!)
We ended up writing a personal letter to every member of our congregation telling them what was taught at the Re-Imagining Conference and which we had sent leadership to attend. After a year of prayer and my husband speaking truth to this pastor, we left the UM church.
But I am in no way meaning to single out this denomination. As Horton has made clear, this problem is pervasive or perhaps invasive and is permeating throughout all of American Christianity.
The answer is Jesus' return so we pray, "Come quickly, Lord Jesus!" LL
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