Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin is a "hypocrite"
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/21/2008 3:22:31 PM
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markb77
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Good for him. He's right. Now, if the wolves were armed and could shoot back....
< Message edited by markb77 -- 9/21/2008 8:33:00 PM >
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/21/2008 5:46:48 PM
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iluvatar
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I'm no Palin fan, but I'd like to know the context in which this was proposed. Were the animal populations growing out of control and an insufficient number of hunters to keep them in check. Excessive animal populations can actually be unhealthy for the animals themselves, not just people.
And if you can hit a running animal from a moving airplane... WOW!
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/21/2008 6:24:31 PM
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rlj
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quote:
And if you can hit a running animal from a moving airplane... WOW!
If you can miss a running animal from a moving airplane with some of the hunting gear they sell today... Wow, you must be blind. ; ) I don't know enough about the populations of the two animals and their impact on Alaska to make a comment.
What I will comment on is who would have thought Geezer was pro-life? That's pretty wild.
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This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 9:22:02 AM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
Were the animal populations growing out of control and an insufficient number of hunters to keep them in check. Excessive animal populations can actually be unhealthy for the animals themselves, not just people.
good point.
plus, in Alaska....people hunt not just for "sport"....but, for FOOD...
should the people of Alaska go hungry...so, as to not "hurt" any of the animals God put there for them to eat?
While people like this go on and on about the killing of wild animals for food....these very same people TYPICALLY have no problem with unborn babies being killed.
go figure.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 10:33:35 AM
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Market42Fan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
And if you can hit a running animal from a moving airplane... WOW!
-Dan.
Isn't that outlawed, though?
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 10:35:32 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Moved from Music to Election 2008.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 10:54:07 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
Isn't that outlawed, though?
Not in Alaska.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 10:55:25 AM
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ManimalX
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The man appears to be another ignoramus who equates animal life with human life. His argument fails because his premise is flawed. "Pro-Life" means you despise the destruction of human beings. It has nothing to do with animals. For Christians who know the truth, there is an chasm fixed between the value of human life and animal life. Humanity has been made in the image of God, animals were made to be useful to man.
Geezer Butler.. what a tool. Now I remember why I can't stand listening to music from people like him.
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"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 11:21:45 AM
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zamdad
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Because my internet connection is giving me problems this morning, I am responding without viewing the link. But, having lived most of my adult life in Alaska, I feel compelled to respond. Yes, Alaskans shoot wolves from planes. Once again, people from the lower 48 cannot wrap their minds around issues Alaskans deal with and then want to tell Alaskans how to live.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 11:44:33 AM
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rcjames
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How about we set Mr. "Pro all life" Geezer Butler down on the tundra and let him bond with a pack of wolves.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 7:31:43 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
And if you can hit a running animal from a moving airplane... WOW!
Oftentimes, these wolves are run down until they are exhausted and the hunter lands, and kills it from a short distance.
Hunting for food is one thing, but blasting animals for no other reason than for fun is cowardly.
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/22/2008 9:25:26 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
Oftentimes, these wolves are run down until they are exhausted and the hunter lands, and kills it from a short distance.
Hunting for food is one thing, but blasting animals for no other reason than for fun is cowardly.
The same arguments we heard from all those who know what's best for Alaska during the wold control debates in the 1990's. Why is it that folks who have no clue about life in Alaska can make all these judgments about those that do live there?
To me, the only good wolf is a dead wolf. I've had too many friends lose sled dogs to wolves. Wolves do not hunt only the old, sick and lame moose and caribou like the "experts" would have us believe. Wolves have been transplanted back into the US. In the area I live in we have wolves. Cattle ranchers are losing cattle to wolves. They may be cute, but they aren't so cuddly.
Let me guess, Todd, you've never shot a pesky pigeon for fun? How about a cute little squirrel? Seems to me that most folks, because they live in urban areas, have lost touch with the reality of how mother nature works. She is cruel. Seems our urban/suburban media filled worldview has us wanting to believe that all deer are like Bambi and that wolves are just like dogs that live in the wild.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 8:57:05 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
And if you can hit a running animal from a moving airplane... WOW!
Oftentimes, these wolves are run down until they are exhausted and the hunter lands, and kills it from a short distance.
Hunting for food is one thing, but blasting animals for no other reason than for fun is cowardly.
When there is an over abundance of predators it is a good thing to thin them out to where there is balance. Shoot 'em, poison 'em, however. It is called conservation.
When the population of wolves gets out of control, they also prey on domestic animals and even become a danger to humans; so population control is a good thing.
Here in Oklahoma coyotes are a real problem in many parts of the state.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 9:21:41 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Oftentimes, these wolves are run down until they are exhausted and the hunter lands, and kills it from a short distance.
Hunting for food is one thing, but blasting animals for no other reason than for fun is cowardly.
The same arguments we heard from all those who know what's best for Alaska during the wold control debates in the 1990's. Why is it that folks who have no clue about life in Alaska can make all these judgments about those that do live there?
This is a poor argument. Southerners could have used the same argument to defend slavery during the 1850's. People currently use that argument to defend abortion. Just because a particular practice may be useful or beneficial doesn't mean it's right.
quote:
To me, the only good wolf is a dead wolf. I've had too many friends lose sled dogs to wolves. Wolves do not hunt only the old, sick and lame moose and caribou like the "experts" would have us believe. Wolves have been transplanted back into the US. In the area I live in we have wolves. Cattle ranchers are losing cattle to wolves. They may be cute, but they aren't so cuddly.
Wolves can be an important part of an ecosystem by keeping other animal populations under control.
quote:
Let me guess, Todd, you've never shot a pesky pigeon for fun? How about a cute little squirrel?
I've done it, but I shouldn't have.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
When there is an over abundance of predators it is a good thing to thin them out to where there is balance. Shoot 'em, poison 'em, however. It is called conservation.
When the population of wolves gets out of control, they also prey on domestic animals and even become a danger to humans; so population control is a good thing.
Here in Oklahoma coyotes are a real problem in many parts of the state.
Well, that's the crux of the issue - are these wolves being hunted to control their population or are they hunted just for "sport."
This article on slate and this article from cnn both seem to imply that the wolf hunting is, in itself, justifiable. Whether or not hunting them from a plane is ok... Seeing as how hunting groups and conservationists have a problem with it, I'm inclined to see it as a bad thing.
Another interesting thing about the slate article - it mentions that Palin tried to offer a $150 bounty on each wolf killed. How is that a good use of taxpayer money, particularly when she was ok with rape victims being charged for their rape kit exams because of the cost to taxpayers?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 9:35:44 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
This is a poor argument. Southerners could have used the same argument to defend slavery during the 1850's. People currently use that argument to defend abortion. Just because a particular practice may be useful or beneficial doesn't mean it's right.
Nope, trying to link slavery to wolf control is a poor argument.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 9:40:11 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1961
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
This is a poor argument. Southerners could have used the same argument to defend slavery during the 1850's. People currently use that argument to defend abortion. Just because a particular practice may be useful or beneficial doesn't mean it's right.
Nope, trying to link slavery to wolf control is a poor argument.
I'm not trying to link slavery or abortion to wolf control. What I'm trying to point out is the flaw in your argument - the idea that outsiders can't have legitimate concerns about how a community conducts itself w/o actually being a part of that community. That's one of the big arguments used by the pro-choice crowd and it's nonsense. Just because I've never been a pregnant 15 yo girl doesn't mean I can't say that abortion is wrong. Just because I've never lived in Alaska doesn't mean that I can raise questions about the ethics of shooting wolves from airplanes.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 10:03:55 AM
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zamdad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
This is a poor argument. Southerners could have used the same argument to defend slavery during the 1850's. People currently use that argument to defend abortion. Just because a particular practice may be useful or beneficial doesn't mean it's right.
Nope, trying to link slavery to wolf control is a poor argument.
I'm not trying to link slavery or abortion to wolf control. What I'm trying to point out is the flaw in your argument - the idea that outsiders can't have legitimate concerns about how a community conducts itself w/o actually being a part of that community. That's one of the big arguments used by the pro-choice crowd and it's nonsense. Just because I've never been a pregnant 15 yo girl doesn't mean I can't say that abortion is wrong. Just because I've never lived in Alaska doesn't mean that I can raise questions about the ethics of shooting wolves from airplanes.
-Dan.
I understand your premise. Why do people think shooting wolves from planes is cruel? Why do people think that trapping animals for fur is cruel? Most gvet their information from the media and the media, as we've all seen recently, can be biased. Also, we only understand things from the referance point of our own life experience.
I was not raised in Alaska. I grew up in Calif. While in Jr. high, I took a class on wildlife. The teacher taught us that trapping for fur was morally wrong. That hunting was not necessary and that some forms of hunting were outright cruelty. Also, someone got me a subscription to Ranger Rick Magazine as a kid. At the time, the Trans-Alaska pipeline was being proposed. The magazine was against it. Said the pipeline was going ot prevent the caribou from migrating and that moose would not be able to get across. I moved to Alaska right out of high school and soon found that what I'd been taught was lies.
The wolf population is difficult to control. They are very mobile in that they can cover a lot of ground very quickly. Also, much of the terrain in the state is difficult to get to. Therefore, the best way to go about wolf control is to kill them from the air. They are not an animal that one stalks such as moose or caribou.
Wolves can come into populated areas, kill sled dogs, and be gone into the wilderness in a very short period of time. Also, as I said before, the area I live in now has a significant wolf population. Many cattle ranchers are losing cattle to wolves. The wolves come in, kill and move on. They could be in Canada before the end of the day. While you might see predator control from a plane as cruel, ask yourself why you view it that way.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 10:36:26 AM
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Psalms274
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quote:
Wolves can be an important part of an ecosystem by keeping other animal populations under control.
They can be ... BUT ... when the wolf population has grown to the point that they are killing livestock the rules change. This is what Zamdad is attempting to explain to you ... the wolf population in Alaska is too big and they are killing livestock, so they are allowing for corrective measures to thin out the large population to get it under control. This will in the long run help both the people and the ecosystem by keeping the population in check The same thing can happen w/ the deer population in many places ... if you didn't allow hunting they would starve due to overpopulation. It is a way to keep the numbers in check.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 10:39:40 AM
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ManimalX
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Why does it matter if they wolves are shot from an airplane? As long as the job gets done, it doesn't matter much if people use sling-shots or artillery.
Animals aren't people. They don't have people-feelings. As responsible human beings, it is sometimes necessary to control a wild animal population, not just for our own good, but often theirs. An overpopulation of wolves could devastate other indigenous animal populations (Elk, Caribou, Deer, etc) and can cause mayhem with ranching, not to mention the threat to humans. An overpopulation of any type of wild animal can rapidly spread disease and have long term consequences on that species. Also, a reward for tagging certain animals is a common practice when a population of wild-animals needs to be controlled.
Here in Colorado, there is a city called Estes Park that had a huge explosion of Elk. They were getting sick, spreading disease, destroying the plant life, getting into traffic, and causing the things that go along with an overpopulation of Elk. A plan was formulated that involved sharpshooters and bounty hunting. Eventually, bringing in packs of wolves was added into the mix. I am not sure what the exact final plan was, but this is just an example to show that sometimes an animal population needs to be controlled.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 10:50:36 AM
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phreddy
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rlj,
Specifically, what kind of equipment are you saying makes it easy to shoot a running animal from a plane? It is very difficult to hit a running animal from a steady, supported, unmoving postition at any distance much less from a moving airplane. The strongest most light gathering scope in the world won't help you hold your gun steady. A machine gun might help, but I don't anyone who has access or uses one for hunting.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 1:44:44 PM
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rcjames
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The number one killer of baby and young Polar Bears are the wolves; and I say praise God that Sarah Palin goes the extra mile and protects the young Polar Bears from this horrid death of being eaten to death by wolves.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 2:38:42 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
rcjames
The number one killer of baby and young Polar Bears are the wolves; and I say praise God that Sarah Palin goes the extra mile and protects the young Polar Bears from this horrid death of being eaten to death by wolves.
You mean they're not being killed by global warming? Global warming must be causing the wolves to kill the polar bear.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler: Sarah Palin i... - 9/23/2008 7:20:22 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1587
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
To me, the only good wolf is a dead wolf.
This is precisely the same mindless attitude which helped eradicate the wolf from the lower 48 over the past 150 years.
quote:
Cattle ranchers are losing cattle to wolves. They may be cute, but they aren't so cuddly.
Wolves are predators. They're going to hunt what they can get to survive. Though, why would they attack a sled dog? Territoriality?
quote:
They are not an animal that one stalks such as moose or caribou.
This is not true. A wolf will take one of these animals, if possible, but tend to be scavengers.
quote:
Let me guess, Todd, you've never shot a pesky pigeon for fun?
Why would I want to do that?
quote:
Seems to me that most folks, because they live in urban areas, have lost touch with the reality of how mother nature works. She is cruel.
Yeah, I'm aware of that.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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