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Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 3:42:10 PM
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psalm100
Posts: 250
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In many of the churches in my area they sponsor services to raise money for their building fund. For example: One church invited my pastor to come and speak at their church. They are holding these services because they need to raise money to pay off their debt.
What do you think of churches who schedules pastors to come speak at their church solely to raise money?
_____________________________
Psalm 84:12 O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 3:46:13 PM
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JimboFletch
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I believe that God's plan is that church members give regularly and generously to avoid debt in the first place.
Unfortunately, the majority of members need to be cajoled or entertained enough to give what the Holy Spirit probably would have led them to give if they were listening to Him.
But if the need arises in December, forget about it...
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 4:18:12 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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We have a small box on the back wall of the sanctuary that has "Offerings" on it.
I never even mention it or offerings with the exception of new folks that ask what to do with their offerings. I just say there is a box on the back wall.
It's God business and he will take care of it.
A few years ago in August the offering were really down, I could not see how to pay the very high electricity bill, so I did not run the air conditioners. When ask why it was so hot? I replied there was not enought offering to do so.
There was a real increase in offerings that morning.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 4:41:58 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1008
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That (OP) sounds like an odd practice...
Why do people give more when a stranger runs a special service? Is it a 'better' 'service' somehow? Do more people come? (Do non-members give if they come - why?) Does he ask directly for donations or encourage in more enthusiastic ways than the home preacher would be comfortable with?
Why would a Church get into a situation of debt that they can't sustain anyways?
Is it really openly billed as a fund-raising service? If not, what kind of service does it claim to be?
Very odd.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 4:43:47 PM
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Calea37
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
A few years ago in August the offering were really down, I could not see how to pay the very high electricity bill, so I did not run the air conditioners. When ask why it was so hot? I replied there was not enought offering to do so.
There was a real increase in offerings that morning.
Thanks
RC
LOL!!!!
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Calea
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/23/2008 5:43:17 PM
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psalm100
Posts: 250
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Well, this is a small church no more than 50 or so members. It's not labeled as a fundraising service. My thing is the motive of such services: Are you really concerned about the people's spiritual well being or are you mainly concerned about bringing in revenue?
It raises money because the visiting church's members accompany the pastor.
_____________________________
Psalm 84:12 O Lord of hosts, blessed is the man that trusteth in thee.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/24/2008 4:38:14 AM
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BibleL7
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I would say the leadership is wanting to grow without guidance from the LORD. I am in a very small church and the building was bought about 11 years ago with a mortgage that was affordable to the original members. The membership has gone up and down but it seems the bills were always paid. Since I have been here and was elected treasurer less than 10 peoples regular tithing has paid most of the bills with only use of credit other than the mortgage has been for the insurance costs and all the regular bills are paid by the tithes of these few people. We also support missionaries and give to needy people. If the leadership wants to grow into a better building it should only do so if it is needed for attendance and the finances should be sufficient to support the move. Of course our pastor does teach on giving and we do ask visitors not to give unless the Lord leads them to we believe that the church should be supported by the memberships tithes. And it works. We have never been short of funds to pay bills though it sometimes comes in at last minute. The Lord is good to provide.
Just the opinion of a small town preacher
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 8:15:25 AM
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timf
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I never even mention it or offerings with the exception of new folks that ask what to do with their offerings. I just say there is a box on the back wall.
RC describes a faith that was demonstrated in the book "The autobiography of George Muller". It is a path few follow, but has great reward. One can also ask if we do not poison a ministry by following the course of the world or the flesh when we have an opportunity to trust in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
If clever words can quench the power of the cross of Christ, do worldly marketing techniques and fund raising events also carry us further from Him who saves us?
If the Lord is not prospering the path we are on, should we employ our own strength or the techniques of the world to make it work, or consider instead that we might want to ask the Lord to show us the path He would have us take.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 8:34:00 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4760
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From: Jesus Land
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I've seen churches do it, but it always left a bad taste in my mouth.  I always feel manipulated through services like that. It's those kinds of things that give people the impression that all the church is after is your money. I also dislike taking up mulitple offerings. Why do we need to pass the plate during Sunday School and then during the service twice, once for Missions and once for regular offering, and then again Sunday evening? It gets old.
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 10:09:51 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 1324
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From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I never even mention it or offerings with the exception of new folks that ask what to do with their offerings. I just say there is a box on the back wall.
It's God business and he will take care of it.
should people be taught the spiritual benefits of giving? i guess the issue of whether a tithe is biblical or not is up for debate but it's pretty clear about giving in general. i feel people might be missing out on blessings who don't give. i realize it's a tough subject to preach on - a previous pastor of mine told me how the congregation would penalize him by a very low offering following a week he preached on giving. so after once or twice it was rarely mentioned in a sermon altho finances of the church would be mentioned.
< Message edited by iwillfearnoevil -- 4/25/2008 10:22:04 AM >
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 12:54:29 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
who says you have to give every time? some people can't make sunday morning service so it's a time for those to give.
Sure, but why not put a box by the back door for the handful of people who only come Sunday evenings?
_____________________________
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 1:26:42 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 1324
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From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Sure, but why not put a box by the back door for the handful of people who only come Sunday evenings?
giving as an act of worship? being a cheerful giver? do you feel you are being judged if you don't put something in the offering every time?
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 1:39:25 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoev
should people be taught the spiritual benefits of giving? i guess the issue of whether a tithe is biblical or not is up for debate but it's pretty clear about giving in general.
I teach obedience to the Lord if one is a believer; the following verse covers this really well;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So if we want to call Jesus Lord and do it genuinely then there is abple statements about the New Testament Church folks giving (sorry mods, but none about tithing) I hang my hat on the following, and our Churches have never done without. I read this verse about onece a quarter if that much and we have a box on the bask wall that says offering. We do not pass the plate, have raffles, sell cupcakes or other things.
(2Co 9:5) Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
(2Co 9:6) But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
(2Co 9:7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
(2Co 9:8) And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
(2Co 9:9) (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
(2Co 9:10) Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;)
(2Co 9:11) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
(2Co 9:12) For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
(2Co 9:13) Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
(2Co 9:14) And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
(2Co 9:15) Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
This passage not only gives cause for gining, promises return for giving, but shows the believer to give where the gospel is being spread and the work of God is being done.
If a person asks me should they give all their offering directly to the Church and not to TV, individual missionaries, etc. I refer them back to theis verse from the passage above;
(2Co 9:7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Thansk
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 4/25/2008 1:48:09 PM >
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/25/2008 3:24:24 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4760
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Sure, but why not put a box by the back door for the handful of people who only come Sunday evenings?
giving as an act of worship? being a cheerful giver? do you feel you are being judged if you don't put something in the offering every time?
No, but it's one of those things that I feel that churches do that have the potential to embarrass people unnecessarily. It's awkward enough if you let the plate go by you once if you have nothing to give. If the plate goes by four times in a day, it's enough to make some people not want to come back to church. I've heard many people complain about how churches only want their money, and when we ask and ask for money it only legitimizes their complaints.
I also get tired of always being asked for more money. Every time the church wants to do something, they take up a special offering. It's so easy to think, Hey, we're faithful tithers--what are they doing with the money we are giving them already if they always have to ask for more?
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/30/2008 11:29:34 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
Hey, we're faithful tithers--what are they doing with the money we are giving them already if they always have to ask for more?
Well number 1 your church should have accountability that shows any member who inquires how their money is designated and number 2 if you are giving out of condemnation you may as well keep your money because there is no blessing coming back to you. God loves and wants a cheerful giver.
One way to give is decide at the first of the week, month, etc how much you are going to give...make out one check and write on the envelope where each portion of that money goes...$200 tithes, $15 missions, $15 Sun. School, $15 special events, or something along those lines.
Anything beyond that weekly check I would by no means feel guilty about not giving when the plates were passed by, but if I feel led to give extra then I think it is good the opportunity is there.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/30/2008 11:45:13 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 1324
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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kinda related about the 'embarrassment' factor ... i have set my online bill paying through my bank to send mulitple checks throughout the month for things such as tithes, missions, building fund so i am never seen putting anything in offering plate. i sometimes wonder if people are looking at me funny for 'never giving' but i used to be so bad about remembering the checkbook (since i never use it) or having to run to the car to get it, etc ... and then if i skip having to do the math and figure out the new amount ... this is so easy and always on time, but i guess it doesn't give a good impression if people are looking at me. but sometimes i'm selfconscious and overanalyze things so i just let it go. not sure about this though.
buck is right about accountability. you probably have right to observe board meetings and at my previous church very detailed financial spending was displayed - even broken down by ministry and questions allowed. not sure about my new church as i wasn't sure if there has been an annual since i've started attending.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/30/2008 11:47:38 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 1141
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
We have a small box on the back wall of the sanctuary that has "Offerings" on it.
I never even mention it or offerings with the exception of new folks that ask what to do with their offerings. I just say there is a box on the back wall.
It's God business and he will take care of it.
A few years ago in August the offering were really down, I could not see how to pay the very high electricity bill, so I did not run the air conditioners. When ask why it was so hot? I replied there was not enought offering to do so.
There was a real increase in offerings that morning.
Thanks
RC
That gave me a smile. Sounds a lot like the discipline we direct toward our child - sometimes natural consequences speak most clearly.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/30/2008 12:00:40 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 998
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
kinda related about the 'embarrassment' factor ... i have set my online bill paying through my bank to send mulitple checks throughout the month for things such as tithes, missions, building fund so i am never seen putting anything in offering plate.
same here....i would say there is a high-percentage of people at our church that have tithing/offering/giving to the church "auto-debited" directly from their accounts for numerous reasons (the church provides this as just another means for people to tithe/give offerings, etc..etc...) So, you're right, I, along with MANY people don't put anything in the offering plate..."embarrassment"? not at all....because most everyone knows putting money in the "offering plate" isn't the only way to "give"...
as far as "never being seen" putting anything in? Well, when you're in church with about 5,000+ of your closest friends (in one of the two services on Sunday)....it's kind of hard to keep track exactly WHO is putting what in the plate....
I doubt if anyone is paying attention who is putting what in there.
At the "offering" time, a prayer is spoken....but, that's it....never is anyone ever "asked" for money (Guests and visitors are told that their "visitor cards" are the only "offering" that we expect from them)....unless, we're in a time of having "contributions" (Over and above normal tithing) to go towards some kind of building project of some sort. Then, it's brought up just to remind people that it's going on....and, to "fill in" those who may not be aware of the "campaign" for "facilities improvements" or whatever.
All I know, is that our church body, as a whole, gives very generously.
< Message edited by kernsfamily -- 4/30/2008 12:10:39 PM >
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Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 4/30/2008 4:53:36 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4760
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
Status: online
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quote:
Well number 1 your church should have accountability that shows any member who inquires how their money is designated and number 2 if you are giving out of condemnation you may as well keep your money because there is no blessing coming back to you. God loves and wants a cheerful giver.
I know how the church spends the money. I'm the pastor's wife. I'm not concerned about myself being embarrased, but about how other people might feel. I have heard over and over the sentiment that the church only wants people's money, and the way they take up offerings is part of the reason they feel that way. My husband hasn't yet made the change to take up only one offering, since he's been the pastor there only a couple of months, but it's something he's planning on doing in the months ahead. We don't want to make too many changes at once, so we're moving slowly on this, but I would hate for people to be turned away from church and from the Lord because they were embarrased at church.
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 5/1/2008 9:11:50 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 1324
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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i understand that ... it was confusing because you typed "what are they doing with the money we are giving them already if they always have to ask for more?" ... like you were speaking for yourself as opposed to the church people in your congregation in general ... hopefully you guys can make some changes as you mention and to educate the people that your board is a good steward of God's resources
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RE: Church Revenue---A question - 5/1/2008 5:25:24 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4760
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Jesus Land
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Sorry for the confusion.  We do have a great board and they seem to be great at making financially sound decisions. There's a few minor changes my husband wants to make in that department, but overall they are on the right track.
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Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
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