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DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 2:39:18 AM
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BeautifulFemale
Posts: 118
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Would you agree or disagree re the following:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it?
Added note on the 10/10/08: Guys - you can't say a person is marriageable or if you eventually will marry them-but YOU CAN KNOW YOUR INTENTIONS prior to marrying them. If you're just going out (dating) for fun, then, sheesh...why not take out the dog and everyone else along too? Why does it have to be alone....you're taking someone else's wife/husband out on a date!
< Message edited by BeautifulFemale -- 10/10/2008 4:33:58 PM >
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 3:43:34 AM
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Tashilein
Posts: 210
Joined: 9/30/2008
From: Belgium living in Bahrain
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My answers:
1. If this person doesn't ever want to get married, yet dates... and the person s/he dates, does want to marry one day... then it's using.
2. No, pretty much from the beginning he'll know my intentions. I want to get married and have a family one day... but it doesn't mean he'll be the one.
3. It's a nice gesture. In my case, it wouldn't be the most practical if he were to make it known to my dad cause my dad doesn't speak English, is in Belgium and I'm in Bahrain and I don't have any close male friends in Bahrain.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 11:57:28 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
It could be but doesn't have to mean that. Some people just like to have someone fun to do fun things with, and it's an ego boost that someone of the opposite sex likes them.
The problem is that a sexually mature but unmarried person living in a culture that casual sex is OK is faced with tons of temptation, and young people may not have been trained to wait for marriage and not to lead others on. People can trainwreck their lives without even meaning to or using others.
There are some predatory types that deliberately use others, and those low-lifes can be very charming. Charming low-lifes.
quote:
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
I made it clear I wasn't looking for anything serious (because I was going to stay single forever... until I met my future DH, and I was a goner  ).
quote:
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it?
I didn't, but if I were young and single now, I'd follow that verse that says "where there are many counselors there is victory." I would court, not date. It may be old-fashioned, but it ups the odds on a good match and people not hurting each other. Hopefully the low-lifes are quickly outed and asked to buzz off.
When my daughter wants to marry, I expect to meet the young man, get phone numbers of his pastor, elders and parents, and have frank talks with all of them. If he doesn't make it past our four deal-breakers (godly, teachable, ready financially/socially/emotionally and good reputation with mature Christians) the answer is no. If he does, and he wants her and she wants him, we'll start planning a wedding. Or my daughter will, and I'll just sign checks.
Who a person marries is second only in importance to salvation. There's lots of pits to avoid falling into, and you want to see a good match. Courting narrows the field a lot to suitable candidates for a spouse. If some guy doesn't want us to stick him under a microscope, then there's probably a really good reason to not accept him, and we've just saved everyone a lot of trouble.
I didn't know about courting when I met my future husband, but we got a thumb's up from both sets of parents and a godly marriage and family counselor mutual friend. Our educations were finished, we had good reputations in the body of believers and were ready for marriage as much as could be expected. We learned as we went along, and have enjoyed (and sometimes endured ) 20 years so far. We're still in love and are each others' best friend.
And just so no one is worried about this, my daughter is thriving in a college atmosphere where the guys and gals hang out in groups and there's lots of swing dances, activities (she last called me while standing on top of a mountain, and sent me phone pix), parties (no liquor) and fun things to do. There is no pressure to pair off and she has friends of both sexes and is getting to know gobs of people and having the time of her life doing it. Oh, and she's doing well in school, too.  God is gracious!
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 1:13:42 PM
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preserved
Posts: 613
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Dating a person with no intention in marrying is not using the person. That question should surface in the beggining during the course of meeting and what the intentions area. Something must have been said...otherwise how would one know there is no intentions of marrying unless it was indicated?
Many people just like to have someone to hang out with and it is not necessarily dating.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 1:24:02 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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Dating with the intention of marrying seems kind of backwards in my mind.
Dating is how you get to know if you want to marry the person or not.
You need to know enough about the person before dating them, but you don't have to know you're going to marry them before. That's silly, IMO.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 2:55:43 PM
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vicbhe
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From: Arkansas
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1) It is not using the person. If you have no intentions of ever marrying the person and you lead them to believe you are going to marry them, by the things you say and do, then you are doing them wrong. However if you have no intentions of marrying them and you never indicate one way or the other, you are not responsible for their assumptions, nor are they responsible for yours.
2) Do any of us know when we are going to fall in love or not? Many a ‘could-be’ relationships are ended before they ever begin because one or the other says too much or assumes too much in the beginning.
3) I'm not familiar with that one at all.
_____________________________
“You cannot improve your righteousness by tearing down the righteousness of others”. W.O. Vaught
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 2:58:22 PM
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preserved
Posts: 613
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vicbhe
1) It is not using the person. If you have no intentions of ever marrying the person and you lead them to believe you are going to marry them, by the things you say and do, then you are doing them wrong. However if you have no intentions of marrying them and you never indicate one way or the other, you are not responsible for their assumptions, nor are they responsible for yours.
2) Do any of us know when we are going to fall in love or not? Many a ‘could-be’ relationships are ended before they ever begin because one or the other says too much or assumes too much in the beginning.
3) I'm not familiar with that one at all.
Exactly!
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 5:14:35 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
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1) and2) It all depends on what you define as dating and what you do. I had a friend in college who came up with the idea of affectionate buddies. He was into dating just to have someone to kiss, hold hands, snuggle...etc.. but with no real attatchment. He never sold me. I have always looked at any one I date as a possible marriage partner and will only date those who I see as such. I don't always talk about marriage at the beginning but they usually know I am marriage minded. However, there might be other reasons to date like getting to know what type of person you like to date, learning to relate to the opposite sex, learning how to treat the opposite sex, or to enjoy someone's company. This might not be one of those black and white issues.
3) In college there was a girl who was deeply interested in me. She wanted us to go eat lunch together. I knew she was interested and I was partialy interested but I wasn't really thinking it as a date but it was just two people going to lunch and getting to know each other. I thought it might lead to something more "datish". I wasn't sure I liked her that much but I figured eating lunch would be okay. Well, after agreeing to go eat lunch with her she told me I needed to call her Dad to get his permission. I didn't know him and it was extremely awkward. But I did so. What we did never went anywhere but we continued to be friends. I also know a ton of people who dated and they really didn't have to ask permission of the Dad to date and things worked out great. It could help add some accoutability and wisdom to the whole thing. But if her Dad can see that he's trouble in one sitting and she never could see it then she needs to learn a few things about judging character. I just don't see it as a hard and fast rule that everyone has to follow.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 6:35:38 PM
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Tashilein
Posts: 210
Joined: 9/30/2008
From: Belgium living in Bahrain
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quote:
ORIGINAL: willfs
It all depends on what you define as dating and what you do.
Thank you! I was getting worried I might have become even more blonde (if at all possible :-p) since so many were saying it isn't using.
But yes, it's about how one defines "dating". So in my case, I'd define dating with it might lead to longterm relationship... possibly marriage. So if a guy would want to date me but has no intention to ever marry (not saying marry me, but marry in general) then... say goodbye to dating and hello to friendship.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 7:11:34 PM
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BeautifulFemale
Posts: 118
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Personally, what is the difference between dating and being a friend to some girl or guy? Getting PHYSICAL! What else is there? You can talk about everything at any level with your FRIENDS and stillonly see them as BUDDIES. You do not need to know who you like to date...you can do that by finding out what kind of person you hang out with make syou comfortable, at ease and oh, yeah...sexually attracted to! If you want to date someone to have alone time with them...PUHLEASE - you can do that by being friends and making the other party KNOW that you're hanging out as friends! How many SERIOUSLY would think that it's ok to date without making the other person know what your intentions are???
ONe of you guys stated this: 'However if you have no intentions of marrying them and you never indicate one way or the other, you are not responsible for their assumptions, nor are they responsible for yours. ' How lovable is that? So, this dating experience is just for your own selfish gain? Are you sensitive to that person and who they might be/how they may act?
To me, sounds like you don't care about that person much -even to pre empt what they may/may not be thinking...doesnt sound so hot...to be honest.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 7:23:23 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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I disagree. I think there are certain topics and activities (outside of physical touch) that are not as acceptable between non-dating people. Along with an emotional connection that will build up.
If what separates friends and dating is only kissing, then I think houston, we have a problem.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 8:08:51 PM
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spade
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I disagree. I think there are certain topics and activities (outside of physical touch) that are not as acceptable between non-dating people. Along with an emotional connection that will build up.
If what separates friends and dating is only kissing, then I think houston, we have a problem.
What kinds of things do you think are unacceptable between non-dating friends? It's an interesting point... elaborate more!
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 8:21:00 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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One quick example . . . I just had a non-dating friend tell me she loves me . . . and not in an appropriate context. Love-love, I mean. I don't find that to be acceptable between friends, but between a committed couple, then yes. I take the word "love" very serious, and consider it to be much more . . . sacred, if you will.
I think there are certain topics that are off-limits, ie. certain sexual topics, between just-friends of opposite genders, unless there is a very . . . unique relationship there.
Maybe I'm just old-fashion, though.
As far as activities, beyond just the cuddling, kissing, etc, there are some things that shouldn't be done between just-friends. I made the mistake once of crossing a boundary, and bought jewelry for a just-friend. Expensive, engraved, heart-shaped jewelry. Oopsie. Not appropriate! Obviously my intentions were not to be just a friend, but I should NOT have acted out as if we were already more.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/9/2008 10:39:49 PM
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aoyak
Posts: 377
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unless u were pursuing more than just friendship
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fill my cup Lord! I lift it up to you
Come and quench this thirsting in my soul.
Bunmi.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 3:07:42 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: aoyak
unless u were pursuing more than just friendship
It doesn't matter. I crossed the line.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 8:18:12 AM
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willfs
Posts: 348
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BeautifulFemale. I agree with you for the most part. Its just a semantics deal. I might date a girl and not get physical for a long time with her. On the other hand, I might be friends with a girl and it be like dating because we both like each other but we still want to stay in the friends mode so we continue to see each other as friends and one day it might lead to something more - this might be considered dating and it might not.
I do think that actions have to line up with intentions and words. If I start holding hands, kissing, cuddling or whatever, then I am saying to this person, "I really like you and I now see you as someone I want to become more commited to." I let her know this by telling her as well.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 10:57:38 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4160
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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quote:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
If they were misleading, then it is using. Intent should be up front.
quote:
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
I can count on my fingers the number of dates I went on before getting married, and have change left. DW knew I was intent on marrying her before we ever went out.
quote:
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it? I did not, but I did get permission from an elder of the congregation before asking her to marry me. That was on our first date as a couple.
BTW, social dating was strictly forbidden by our congregation.
Too old fashioned for dating? Probably. Not too old fashioned for a proposal though.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 2:20:43 PM
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BeautifulFemale
Posts: 118
Joined: 6/21/2008
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Hmmm...Ben, if you say I love you to an individual who is a non dating friend and it comes across as inappropriate, why would you say it to a dating partner whom you're not intending to marry? In my mind, it's misleading them -as LOVE -as we probably all believe is a commitment. If on the other hand, you suddenly 'don't love her' anymore, you've pretty much used her.
Also, why in the world, would you hold hands, kiss, cuddle someone who is not your wife/husband? Isn't that using someone else's property?
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 2:54:33 PM
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jaimestarcross
Posts: 766
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1. You have to spend time with someone - to get to know them before
one can accurately say - I'm not interested in marrying him or her.
I know a lot of people who married someone that they had originally said
they weren't interested in marrying.
2. When I was single and dating - I usually had a lot of first dates - very
seldom did a man ask me out the second time(this was due to the fact I made it clear that I'm a Christian and I wasn't going to "mess around" aka - having sex without being married. I went out a lot with male
friends to dinners, movies and concerts... sometimes we'd all meet up at a particular place and have fun over dinner and a movie/or concert. It was like going out with my brothers.
3. The only person who wanted or needed to know about my dating life
was my mom.
* It's best to find someone with values & faith close to your own.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 3:15:59 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 5246
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quote:
Would you agree or disagree re the following:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it?
1) I don't think so necessarily. They could just want to get to know each other better. I don't think all good and lasting marriages started with two individuals who knew that they wanted to marry the other person or could spend the rest of their life with the other person. Sometimes it takes time. You know?
2) I've dated before without making my intentions known. And it turned out that I broke the guy's heart. And I deeply regret not telling him how I truly felt after a period of time. That is the past for me now though.
3) I'm not dating anyone.
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/10/2008 11:23:17 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3265
Status: online
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In my opinion, if you're dating someone, your intention is to get to know them so see if they have the potential to be your life partner. That's what dating is. Otherwise, it's called just hanging out or being friends. And to make life easier on both parties, one or both parties has to make their intentions known by clarifying if it's a date, or if it's just friendships. This way, no expectations start building up.
What is another purpose for dating other than to assess the possibilities of long term relationship?
_____________________________
Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/11/2008 12:45:32 AM
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spade
Posts: 40
Joined: 12/8/2007
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quote:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
That would depend on their intentions, and maybe the age of the people involved. The younger the people involved, the more likely they are using dating as a way to meet people and learn about relationships. Are two 16 year old teens "using" each other if they dating without constantly evaluating if the relationships is headed toward marriage? Probably not, they don't really need to be that serious. What about two college students? Maybe. Older adults, who are dating without the intention to marry if it's the right person, could very well be using their dates to meet a need - whether that's physical or emotional. It's really going to depend on whether they are giving of themselves in the relationship, or just taking and leading the other party on.
quote:
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
I won't date anyone who I can't see myself marrying, if he turns out to be the right one. That's not the same as saying that I have to know I want to marry him before I would date him, but I have to think it's a possibility. Friends first, I guess.
quote:
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it?
It would be exceedingly weird to ask a guy's father if I could ask him out.
More to the point, I wouldn't expect him to ask my dad. Because he's dead, for one. So is my grandfather. I would expect him just to ask me out. When it comes to proposing, ask my mom. NOT my brother or uncle. Love them both, but my mom is the appropriate person to ask. Gender's not everything.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/11/2008 10:29:04 AM
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levimichal
Posts: 51
Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Christiansted, Virgin Islands live in Minneapolis
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I have had this debate with both my sisters because one can know a person courting with the intention of finding out whether they would be a helpmate to each. I have seen dating I would never get into that. Friendship is the basis where one can see the attributes of the person. God will show whether it would be a match. I do not believe in love at first sight but yes in lust at first sight. I have read about the courtship model set forth as the "alternative" and reading the bible see it as a way to guard your heart. Always be sure that you are honoring God in your interactions with those of the opposite sex. Question motives and if you are a female do not keep looking at every Christian guy as a potential spouse believe them to be a brother in Christ. Men look at girls as you would a sister because first and foremost she is a daughter of the Living God.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/11/2008 4:30:33 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
Joined: 12/28/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeautifulFemale
Also, why in the world, would you hold hands, kiss, cuddle someone who is not your wife/husband? Isn't that using someone else's property?
Yeah, that's not something I can't nail down really: what kind of physical affection is appropriate before marriage. I have never thought that holding hands wasn't. I heard someone say they felt that a guy should give the girl a kiss on the cheek and that is it. I can see the wisdom in that, although anyone who has ever dated knows it can be difficult to do.
I also don't see this as one of the more important discussions when it comes to marriage/relationships (except for the temptation aspect). Most relationships don't go down hill because the couple holds hands before marriage. They do because the couple either isn't compatible or there is some selfishness. The only real reason I see the affection discussion as being important is if we are talking about lust/sexual immorality entering into the picture. If what you are doing is tempting you too much to go down the wrong course then I think you should stop.
So your saying you can't hold your gal's hand, kiss her or do anything more than shake her hand before marriage? Also, I am kinda confused. Up above you said that dating is the stage where you are displaying those types of physical affection.
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RE: DATING - another excuse to use an individual? - 10/12/2008 12:52:37 AM
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violinist_for_jesus
Posts: 1992
Joined: 4/20/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeautifulFemale
Would you agree or disagree re the following:
1. If a person says they're dating someone just to get to know them better/spend time alone with that person WITHOUT any intention of marrying the girl/guy, it's another form of USING her/him?
2. Do you date without making your intentions known?
3. If you are dating someone, did you make it known to a male figure s/he respects BEFORE asking her out? Is that too old fashioned now? Or is it?
Added note on the 10/10/08: Guys - you can't say a person is marriageable or if you eventually will marry them-but YOU CAN KNOW YOUR INTENTIONS prior to marrying them. If you're just going out (dating) for fun, then, sheesh...why not take out the dog and everyone else along too? Why does it have to be alone....you're taking someone else's wife/husband out on a date!
1. Define dating and having a cup of coffee.
2. If I ever end up with a girl, she will know my intentions before we ever go "out" alone, if we ever do.
3. Of course, heck, I'd ask his permission to court his daughter...I'd even make sure that it was ok with her mother.
About your last statement, and I say this seriously, the more the merrier! And then it becomes more proper, it becomes courting then.
_____________________________
Zachary/19
http://www.myspace.com/zacharygraft
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