|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 11:23:08 AM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
As parents, what did you do or would have done if this had happened w/ your children in your presence?
1. 3 1/2 year old boy takes away milk bottle from his 1 1/2 year old brother and begins to drink it. Baby cries. Parent tells older child to return the milk; the boy yells "NO!"
2. The same boy pushes, then slaps, the same younger sibling because the toddler ventured into his toy area and tried to take one. Younger child begins to cry hysterically.
3. The same boy scratches the face of the same younger sibling because the toddler pulled the older boy's hair.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 11:49:01 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1865
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
All of those are pretty normal reactions from a toddler. I would of course deal with the problem as soon as it happened.
I would talk to the oldest child explaining we do not hit and why...and to the younger child who is pulling hair I would say a quick and firm no.
I would also redirect both children to something positive they can do together. Instead of grabbing toys and making one of them cry I would show them a toy they can play with together.
For the older child I would make sure he has his own special cup and make a big deal of telling him it's his only while at the same time telling him the bottle is for baby brother only. Put special stickers of something he likes on his cup....
Constant time spent with each other may be too much stimulation so I would also suggest you make sure they have time apart. Independence is a huge issue for a 3 yr. old. Setting boundaries has to be quick and positive at the same time.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 11:51:17 AM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 6162
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
1. 3 1/2 year old boy takes away milk bottle from his 1 1/2 year old brother and begins to drink it. Baby cries. Parent tells older child to return the milk; the boy yells "NO!"
Both my two were off bottles and onto cups by a year old, and even before that there was no wandering around the house with a bottle of milk, drinking would be done in the high chair or in my arms.
quote:
2. The same boy pushes, then slaps, the same younger sibling because the toddler ventured into his toy area and tried to take one. Younger child begins to cry hysterically.
I would have tried to prevent the younger child interfering with the older child's toys in the first place. I would have considered it my responsibiity to supervise the younger child and occupy him.
If this had failed, I'd have taken the older child to one side, and told him not to push and slap his brother, might have smacked his bottom, but I'd have also taken the little one away and made sure he had other things to play with.
quote:
3. The same boy scratches the face of the same younger sibling because the toddler pulled the older boy's hair.
I'd have had my eyes on the toddler and would have stopped things right after he pulled his brother's hair.
In summary, it sounds to me like keeping a closer eye on the 18 month old would be a very good idea, so that he does not further exasperate his brother. I'd encourage some playing together time, but would also make sure that the older boy had enough of his own space.
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 11:52:43 AM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
All of those are pretty normal reactions from a toddler. I would of course deal with the problem as soon as it happened.
I would talk to the oldest child explaining we do not hit and why...and to the younger child who is pulling hair I would say a quick and firm no.
I would also redirect both children to something positive they can do together. Instead of grabbing toys and making one of them cry I would show them a toy they can play with together.
For the older child I would make sure he has his own special cup and make a big deal of telling him it's his only while at the same time telling him the bottle is for baby brother only. Put special stickers of something he likes on his cup....
Constant time spent with each other may be too much stimulation so I would also suggest you make sure they have time apart. Independence is a huge issue for a 3 yr. old. Setting boundaries has to be quick and positive at the same time.
Thanks Buckifn.
So, in other words, every and any time a child "transgresses," correction/discipline must be meted out immediately, right? Or, if not right then and there, then as soon as possible?
because IMO when a child does something wrong but doesn't get punished or disciplined, he or she will grow up thinking it's OK to do what is NOT OK to do... spare the rod, spoil the child?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 11:53:55 AM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
Manda59, you should coach parents. I'm kidding, but I do think you could teach certain parents a lesson or two.
BTW you never got back to me. HMPF
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 12:00:19 PM
|
|
|
Mrs.X
Posts: 2947
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: offline
|
I've had similar things happen with my kids, my oldest is just not quite as violent as the child you are referring to. There isn't really cut and dry answer because when you have two so close together in age, you really just have to train constantly all day every day so it doesn't get to that point. Although that can't always be possible because every child is different. But, I will say that my oldest started out pretty mean to his younger brother, but it is getting better, not worse. My oldest understands how to take turns (with assistance from me) with toys, etc. And, he is beginning to understand that he can't just snatch stuff out of the baby's hand.
Do you know if the baby just started being mobile? That's when the real problems started with my two, and it took some time to get to where we are today. My oldest just turned 3, and my youngest is 16 months, so they are 20 months apart. I will tell you that outright defiance and violence ends with great consequences in this home. I will not tolerate defiance and violence.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 12:26:50 PM
|
|
|
Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5792
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
Status: offline
|
It sounds to me like the older child resents the younger child. Could be the parents are dealing with that at home, but do not care to get into it all when other people are around.
Why on earth would a 3 yo take a 1 yo's bottle? He is doing that to get his parents' attention or to get back at the baby for something he feels wronged about. A simple punishment is not going to solve this issue, because it's deeper than 'doing something he shouldn't'.
None of my 18 month olds would try to take a toy. Or rather, they would know better at that age. If one did, I would have removed the toy from their hand, or held their hand out so they were giving the toy back, and then I'd have taken them away from the older child. If the boys fought over the toy, the toy would have gone on a shelf. If I did not have company, I may have spanked the older child.
18 months is also old enough that if he's pulling hair, he is doing it on purpose. Both boys would probably have been sat on chairs for time-outs at that point.
Although, to be honest, it would never have gotten that far. Clearly they were tired or something was wrong, and it needed dealing with.
Where were you all, anyway? Were you visiting them?
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 12:30:39 PM
|
|
|
Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5792
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
Status: offline
|
LOL, Manda.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 1:58:12 PM
|
|
|
HenriettasCat
Posts: 223
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
|
Rich, like most of these scenarios, we only get to see a snippet. As a parent it is very important to get a hold of the wider issues - not just picking on every bit of 'bad' behaviour.
My two are 21/2 years apart. I am glad to say they are best buddies (just yesterday ds1 said to me 'mummy I couldn't love OJ anymore than I already do'). If one has sweets (candy) they are always eager to save half for their sibling, they can't wait to see each other at the end of the school day. Yes they have the odd bit of behavior which we deal with - but our basis is that most of the time we know that they love each other to bits. So how I would deal with it, how lenient I would be, would depend on things like, what kind of a week they have had, other issues going on with them. Mostly I think parents know these things instinctively. If it was ongoing behaviour I would be praying like mad to know what was upsetting my children so much to make them behave thus.
Some simple strategies have already been touched upon. We have never forced our children to play together. If one wishes to play alone or his brother is annoying him we request that he play in his room private and the other sibling is not allowed to follow (the rule is that the family room is for sharing and everyone/anyone can join, bedrooms are for privacy). Whilst most toys are shared some toys specifically belong to that child and they do not have to share if they do not want to. So, a lot of preventing the problem to begin with.
I think it is always good to remember that an older sibling has often given up a lot to make way for it's younger brother/sister. Parents should be mindful and respectful of this.
My husband and I have also put a lot of time into having fun with the boys and showing them how much fun they can have together - teaching them how to play. We also have a family rule that if anyone doesn't like something another person is doing to them they can say "stop that, I don't like it" and the other person stops. With boys we feel it is particularly important that they hear the word "no" and learn to control their impulses.
Parenting can be exhausting, but well worth the effort. I grew up in a household with little parental interaction in the play department - my parents just expected us to follow barked orders and it didn't work. It is a privalege to be a part of my kids lives.
Rich - I'm sure you are going to be a great father one day!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 4:04:12 PM
|
|
|
Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4867
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
1. 3 1/2 year old boy takes away milk bottle from his 1 1/2 year old brother and begins to drink it. Baby cries. Parent tells older child to return the milk; the boy yells "NO!"
Both my two were off bottles and onto cups by a year old, and even before that there was no wandering around the house with a bottle of milk, drinking would be done in the high chair or in my arms.
quote:
2. The same boy pushes, then slaps, the same younger sibling because the toddler ventured into his toy area and tried to take one. Younger child begins to cry hysterically.
I would have tried to prevent the younger child interfering with the older child's toys in the first place. I would have considered it my responsibiity to supervise the younger child and occupy him.
If this had failed, I'd have taken the older child to one side, and told him not to push and slap his brother, might have smacked his bottom, but I'd have also taken the little one away and made sure he had other things to play with.
quote:
3. The same boy scratches the face of the same younger sibling because the toddler pulled the older boy's hair.
I'd have had my eyes on the toddler and would have stopped things right after he pulled his brother's hair.
In summary, it sounds to me like keeping a closer eye on the 18 month old would be a very good idea, so that he does not further exasperate his brother. I'd encourage some playing together time, but would also make sure that the older boy had enough of his own space.
All of that... We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking(especially in young children).
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 5:41:35 PM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 6162
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
All of that... We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking(especially in young children).
I love it!! LOL
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/29/2008 8:32:05 PM
|
|
|
Mrs.X
Posts: 2947
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
All of that... We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking(especially in young children).
I love it!! LOL
LOL, me too. It bugs me to see parents hollering from the couch/computer/kitchen constantly.....um, hello, your baby doesn't speak English yet, maybe you ought to show him what you mean.
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 10:50:33 AM
|
|
|
Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4867
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
Status: offline
|
Lol, sure.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 3:07:31 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
Thanks for the good responses. I particularly like the "get off your butt parenting" line - active, proactive, involved parenting. And I also like the line where one parents said he/she would physically guide the older child to the younger child, to return the item taken from the younger child.
I also liked the no toleration of defiance and violence line.
If I may, let me talk a bit here, though I have no kids.
I fully believe kids are clever and smart and they will test and push parents to see how far they can go, what they can get away with. And I think a lot of parents nowadays aren't setting boundaries.
The incidents I described in my original post are scenes I've seen with a family I know. I've also seen other scenes w/ other families.
Scene 2 happened recently when the parents had me and other friends over for dinner. The father was busy entertaining the guests, so he told his wife, who was cleaning up after dinner, to discipline the older boy. She did not, sat down at the table with the guests and her husband. I happened to have gone to the scene of the incident and picked up the 1 1/2 year old who was crying.
He said again, "discipline him!"
She looked at him, raised her palms up and shrugged. He got angry and said, "what do you mean (imitating her shrug)?"
She said, "you want him (older boy) to cry too?" And that was it. The father had to stop as the guests were at the table talking, still, and I guess he didn't want to make a scene. The mommy then took the baby from me, and took both boys upstairs. At least from what I saw, the mother took no action at all to reprimand the older boy.
From my inexperienced and biased view as a non-parent who grew up with brothers, who received (and sometimes gave out) violence, and who had a tough, scary, and disciplinarian father who never hesitated to use physical discipline if any of his sons misbehaved, I was stunned.
Compare this to my first experience watching young parents discipline young children. I was 18 and was visiting a couple in their late 20s who had a son less than 2. The young father did not hesitate to raise his voice, and one time when I was holding the boy when he was almost 2, he playfully slapped me in the face. Of course I didnt' care, but the father saw it and told him, "do NOT hit in the face! EVER!" with a tone that even startled ME (then, a college student).
Your thoughts?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 3:27:34 PM
|
|
|
Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4867
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
Status: offline
|
quote:
I was 18 and was visiting a couple in their late 20s who had a son less than 2. The young father did not hesitate to raise his voice, and one time when I was holding the boy when he was almost 2, he playfully slapped me in the face. Of course I didnt' care, but the father saw it and told him, "do NOT hit in the face! EVER!" with a tone that even startled ME (then, a college student).
Our daughter does this when she's frustrated, although she is only 13 months. What we do is this "Gabby, we don't hit faces"(said while holding the offending hand) "we use gentle touches" and then we will guide her hand to either pat or stroke our face. We don't mind her touching our faces, but she is not allowed to hit.
My parents were pretty strict, but honestly, I learned the majority of what I know about parenting from my mother. I watched her do the same things I am doing with my daughter when she was teaching my youngest brother. On the flip side, DH has had to re-evaluate what he thinks/believes about certain things that his parents did(that I would NOT ever do).
Just because we saw something while we were being raised doesn't mean it's good for everyone, or every child.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 4:21:52 PM
|
|
|
Jenny-Fair
Posts: 5792
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: WA
Status: offline
|
quote:
He said again, "discipline him!"
The problem may be that the father is shirking his duty. In addition to the fact that he should not have spoken to his wife like that, especially in company, HE should have gotten off of HIS butt and taken care of at least one child.
Btw, in addition to guiding the child back to hand over the toy, that is also the method I used when they threw things (took them over, used their hand to pick up the item, and put it nicely where it belonged) or would not get/hand things when told. It worked pretty well.
_____________________________
Tony: Ziva, did you kill Houdini?
Ziva: It is possible. I do not remember all their names.
My Blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 4:34:09 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1511
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair
quote:
He said again, "discipline him!"
The problem may be that the father is shirking his duty. In addition to the fact that he should not have spoken to his wife like that, especially in company, HE should have gotten off of HIS butt and taken care of at least one child.
Fair enough - but he didn't bark orders. He just said, "discipline him" because she was much closer to the incident. Instead, she sat down and did what I described.
If she deliberately refused to discipline her kids to spite her husband in front of guests or out of pride, then I think that's wrong - because he didn't scream at her or use a tone that was rude. I know as I was right there.
But I agree with you - "get off your butt" parenting. Neither did anything to reprimand the older boy, and in my view that was an error. Had I been the parent, or if that had happened on a day I was helping my friend babysit his kids (me alone w/ the children), the older boy would have been disciplined immediately.
Oddly enough, in other occasions, the parents HAVE disciplined their kids when one does something inappropriate. I wonder if the guests being there stopped them.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Disciplining very young children - 9/30/2008 9:43:12 PM
|
|
|
pbaribeault
Posts: 1097
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
|
Rich, a lot of what you seem to be trying to learn about parenting has to do with how to respond to misbehavior.
In general, smart parents think and plan at a mile a minute to prevent misbehavior. This is much harder and has a lot of getting off of one's butt. You don't have to let kids lead and push limits in order to have limits. It is entirely possible to gently and clearly teach limits and create environments and relationships that do not encourage the adversarial approach that you seem to favour. (Manda's posts get right to the heart of this -- making sure that a child's needs and preferences are respected in ordinary life, so that the child does not have to resort to misbehaviour.)
One of the things about that relationship that does not encourage adversarial behavior is that parents remain calm and safe -- using real consequences when necessary, but not using a parents' anger as if that were some kind of reasonable consequence. Our children are not responsible for our emotions, therefore raising our voice is nothing more than a threat to the relationship -- and it is the relationship that makes kids want to behave well far more powerfully than trying to avoid consequences ever will. Especially young children respond much better to gentle words and real limits (acted out physically) than to a voice that frightens them and makes it difficult for them to think, respond or remember the lesson.
I struggle with this. When I use my anger as if it was a consequence, I am basically saying, "Your misbehaviour breaks the bond between us, and it's your job to behave well so that I will keep on being your loving mom." That's why I don't think shouting makes good parenting.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
Can I quote you in my siggy?
