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Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:21:15 PM
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RamiRedeemed
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Yes or no? Why or why not?
11-4-08 Mod note:
The OP has clarified the list of Spiritual Gifts under discussion
Romans 12
exhortation
giving
leadership
mercy
prophecy
service
teaching
1 Corinthians 12
administration
apostle
discernment
faith
healing
helps
knowledge
miracles
prophecy
teaching
tongues
tongues interpretation
wisdom
Ephesians 4
apostle
evangelism
pastor
prophecy
teaching
< Message edited by Kath -- 11/4/2008 11:06:44 AM >
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:24:16 PM
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TorchHeart
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Off a whim, I'm going to open this up and say yes. I believe God has given us all spiritual gifts. In the case of non-Christians, however, I would say that its more likely that they don't yet know how to use these gifts properly.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:25:38 PM
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RamiRedeemed
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So do these gifts, TorchHeart, remain dormat so to speak until the person is saved? and how about those who never get saved, does God give them a gift that they will never use knowing that they will never come to know Him?
_____________________________
Some people talk because they have something to say.
Others talk because they have to say something.
-------------------------------
ramireconciled.blogspot.com
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:44:19 PM
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LCannon
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By their very nature an unrepentant soul can't exhibit gifts of the Holy Spirit but they can show mercy, love or charity within their own souls and talents. The gifts of the(Holy)Spirit evidence something outside our souls and talents; that being obedience for other's 'bleeding' thus showing the difference.
"Courtesy is small sacrifices, little ways of saying, "My life for yours."(Elisabeth Elliot)
"Don’t forget to show His sacrifice and Him share with others for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." (Hebrews 13:16)
< Message edited by LCannon -- 10/30/2008 4:52:59 PM >
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:46:56 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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This is a good question.
I would have to say yes and no.
I believe we are all given gifts that we should be using to glorify the Lord, ie singing, writing, athleticism, and so forth. Most of the time though we use these for our personal gain.
I would say no to spiritual gifts though, the kind of gifts that Paul speaks of. I think those are held for believers, once we are born again, ie tongues, prophecy, interpretation. Those he listed in 1 Cor.
I think there is a difference between the 2.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 4:54:52 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Off a whim, I'm going to open this up and say yes. I believe God has given us all spiritual gifts. In the case of non-Christians, however, I would say that its more likely that they don't yet know how to use these gifts properly.
OK, well what does the Bible have to say about it? Where in the Bible can you support your affirmative reply? We need to be careful and not be sentimental about non-believers.....even if we love them.
God is not mocked and there are plenty of non-saved people exhibiting every kind of spiritural 'gift' you can imagine.....including 'healing'.
Problems arise when we ignore what Scripture actually teaches or misinterpret same. Please provide Scripture that indicates non-believers have 'dormant' spiritual gifts.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:03:02 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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What do you all think of this verse:
Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:07:48 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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And what about Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
These people did things that are under what would be listed as the spiritual gifts, but they didn't know Him...
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:12:50 PM
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bravjim
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I'm going to have to disagree. A spiritual gift is just that, spiritual. Without the Holy Spirit living in someone, they cannot be gifted to do any kind of ministry. Thus, a spiritual gift. The natural man has gifts that God gives them at birth, which they have to develop. It can be intelligence, or the ability to love, or the ability to speak (see Barack Obama and Adolf Hitler, both gifted speakers who used those gifts to become leaders (Possible leader) of their country. Athleticism, gifted with numbers or language or writing. There are many gifts, but only the Holy Spirit provides the Spiritual gifts. As we abide in the vine, the sap (Holy Spirit) runs through the vine producing the fruits and gifts of the Spirit.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:17:42 PM
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bravjim
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Just because they claim to prophecy in His name doesn't mean that it is His power working in them. Same thing with casting out demons; Satan is able to cast out demons if it would serve his purpose to deceive someone into following someone who is not of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
And what about Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
These people did things that are under what would be listed as the spiritual gifts, but they didn't know Him...
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:19:36 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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can't argue with the last post
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 5:23:48 PM
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tw12357
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I've been told before that the gifts of the spirit are for the purpose of building up the church, bringing people into the kingdom, the family of God. In that case, I would say that non-christians probably don't have them. There was some verse to back this up, but I'm not certain where it is right now.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 8:27:54 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness
God can be served in the flesh and in the flesh we have God-given talents. But these talents must never be confused with spiritual gifts.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 9:25:23 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
I've been told before that the gifts of the spirit are for the purpose of building up the church, bringing people into the kingdom, the family of God. In that case, I would say that non-christians probably don't have them. There was some verse to back this up, but I'm not certain where it is right now.
I Cor 12:7 says, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." And I Cor 14:26 ". . . Let all things be done for edification."
Yes, the gifts of the Spirit are for the edification of the church.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 9:27:10 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1957
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quote:
So do these gifts, TorchHeart, remain dormat so to speak until the person is saved? and how about those who never get saved, does God give them a gift that they will never use knowing that they will never come to know Him?
Now THAT is thought-provoking.
For the first part of this: My thinking would be that these people WOULD have these gifts, but I don't necessarily believe that they remain dormant; they could be using them at points but not realize it and thus not using them properly, at all. Once they come and grow in their relationship with God, they learn better how to use these gifts as He would want them to.
Secondly, I'm not certain how to go with this. As I've always understood it, wouldn't the concept that God knows whether or not you're going to come to know Him violate the idea of "free will" (i.e.: the choice we all have of whether ot not to believe in and follow God)?
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 9:29:57 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1957
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quote:
OK, well what does the Bible have to say about it? Where in the Bible can you support your affirmative reply? We need to be careful and not be sentimental about non-believers.....even if we love them.
God is not mocked and there are plenty of non-saved people exhibiting every kind of spiritural 'gift' you can imagine.....including 'healing'.
Problems arise when we ignore what Scripture actually teaches or misinterpret same. Please provide Scripture that indicates non-believers have 'dormant' spiritual gifts.
I'll be very honest, I didn't go by any scripture, simply because I see this as something that scripture is unclear on. If you feel that there are instances where scripture would confirm or refute my thought, please lay them out for me.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 9:31:42 PM
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Robert_G
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Do Non believers receive spiritual gifts from God?
Absolutely NOT in any way, shape, or form do unbelievers receive Spiritual Gifts.
Spiritual Gifts are given to those in the Body of Christ.
Not to mention, that TRUE Spiritual Gifts can only be used by those who have the Holy Spirit in them, and those gifts grow in people with the help of the Holy Spirit, and of course The Holy Spirit only resides in Christians.
God gives everyone gifts and talents, but only his Children receive his sacred Spiritual Gifts.
_____________________________
..............
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/30/2008 11:56:31 PM
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Jhud
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I don't know how someone could have a Spiritual gift without the Spirit. I think anyone can have strengths and weaknesses, can have talents, can be especially capable in some area or even have wisdom as the result of experience or careful observation, but you can't have a truely Spiritual anything unless the Spirit of God dwells in you.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 12:03:36 AM
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MrFribbles
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God gives everyone natural talents. There are many non-believers who are skilled teachers, who are very good at encouraging, who have a generous heart, etc. However, that does not mean these people have spiritual gifts.
A Spiritual gift is not a mere talent. It is a special gift given through (and by?) the Holy Spirit. If a person does not have the Spirit living in them, how could they have His gifts?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 3:52:04 AM
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SinnerSaved
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Spiritual gifts are for believers.
Romans 12:3-8
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 6:25:43 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RamiRedeemed
Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts?
Yes or no? Why or why not? That would depend on how you define "spiritual gift."
If you define it as a biblically listed gift from the Holy Spirit, then no.
If you define it as any kind of gifting of a supernatural source, then yes. This young woman certainly had a supernatural gift that came from a spirit, but it was NOT the Holy Spirit.
Act 16:16 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
There is nothing in the text to say her fortune telling was just natural observation or trickery. She was privy to supernatural knowledge. Unfortunately it was of the wrong source.
It would seem that the devil can mimic many of God's true gifts; perhaps to discredit the real gifting.
* Pharoh's wizards were able to re-create a few of the plagues.
* Mormons have speaking in tongues a major tenet of faith
* Fortune tellers abound mimicing the true gift of prophecy
* New Age "healers" also abound mimicing the true gift of healing
the devil excels at trying to draw attention away from the Lord and to himself. By tenedering up false versions of spiritual gifts he has a two-fold aim: 1 - to lead unbelievers away from the gospel and 2 - to discredit the real gifts in the minds of believers to limit their access to God's awesome power.
I would say he has done well on both fronts.
_____________________________
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 11:00:48 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
OK, well what does the Bible have to say about it? Where in the Bible can you support your affirmative reply? We need to be careful and not be sentimental about non-believers.....even if we love them.
God is not mocked and there are plenty of non-saved people exhibiting every kind of spiritural 'gift' you can imagine.....including 'healing'.
Problems arise when we ignore what Scripture actually teaches or misinterpret same. Please provide Scripture that indicates non-believers have 'dormant' spiritual gifts.
I'll be very honest, I didn't go by any scripture, simply because I see this as something that scripture is unclear on. If you feel that there are instances where scripture would confirm or refute my thought, please lay them out for me.
In order to have what Scripture defines as (a) Spiritual gift, one would first have to accept Jesus as God's Word describes Him. The only begotten Son of God, who was sent to earth by God the Father to die for our sins. He rose again on the 3rd day and lives to make intercession for us in heaven. Why am I so specific as to how to believe in Jesus? Because (never start a sentence with because) more and more people believe in Jesus BUT not the Jesus of the Bible. You must be a believer to have a Spiritual gift.
These are not the same as a talent one is born with....the gifts in the Bible are given for the edification of the Body (Christ's body....believers in Him ONLY)
Does the devil give spiritual gifts? Yes.....a cheap imitation of the real thing. DaveW has illustrated that.
I would say the majority of people on this thread have already responded in the negative to the OP's question and they are correct.
If no one else responds with Scripture, when I have time I will be glad to post Scripture that deals thoroughly with the question. Right now, I just don't have the time.......but I will get back.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 11:19:55 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I mean everyone has gifts in doing something, but spritual gifts are not just being able to draw or sing. I mean God uses those once we become Christians to glorify Him, but I wouldn't consider talents spiritual gift, I know they are given to us by God, but I wouldn't call them spritual gifts.
_____________________________
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 10/31/2008 12:36:32 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Okay. So I will ask something. Is embroiderying a gift of the spirit? Is carpentry?
Before you answer yes or no, check the Bible. Neither of these are listed in the two major "gifts" chapters, but check what the rest of the Bible says.  
Since no one answered, perhaps because of my poor spelling, I think that we sell the gifts short. We tend only to look at the gifts listed in Paul's writings or at the gifts (or "gifts") that are public, in our faces, loud, rambunctious, public, persuasive. But there are certainly more gifts than these.
I believe that there are gifts of the H Spirit already at work in those whom He has called before they answer the call and that the H Spirit will expand and use to these gifts to glory of G-d after they becme believers. (I also understand that there are gifts of the human spirit that look like those gifts.) Further, I think we limit the H Spirit, His work, and when He has worked, with regard to the gifts of the H Spirit and His other works.
The H Spirit came upon 70 elders, and they prophesied -- in the early Scriptures, something that many don't know and/or deny:
Num 11:25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him; and He took of the Spirit who was upon him and placed {Him} upon the seventy elders. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied.
The H Spirit came upon Joshua, and he led Israel:
Num 17:18 So the LORD said to Moses, "Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
Deut 34:9 Now Joshua the son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom
The H Spirit came upon persons who could sew and embroider:
Ex 28:3 "You shall speak to all the skillful persons whom I have endowed with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister as priest to Me."
The H Spirit came upon persons who could build and make instruments for the Tabernacle:
Ex 31:3 "I have filled him with the Spirit of God in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all {kinds of} craftsmanship
Ex 35:31 "And He has filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding and in knowledge and in all craftsmanship;
I think that our selling the H Spirit short in the gifts is the main cause of people thinking that those who sing, write music and songs, and teach should do it for nothing, because they are using a gift of the H Spirit, but the gifts of the H Spirit are many and the workman is worthy of his/her due pay.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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