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Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/3/2008 3:03:32 PM
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Camille79
Posts: 3
Joined: 12/18/2005
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discontinue his grace and salvation, if they are not being a good enough Christian. I have always been a Christian, but I worry that God has stopped forgiving me.
I know this is probably a stupid question, but for some reason, it just bothers me. I am trying to base my beliefs about being saved on solid things, like bible verses, instead of just feelings.
I love God, and being a Christian, but it takes some of the joy out of my life when I worry that God won't forgive me. I begin to worry too much about doing the right thing. I just want to know for sure. Does anyone know of any bible verses that say that God could give up on a Christian? I don't mean blasphemy of the holy spirit. I'm pretty sure that I have done that. Thank you very much!
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/3/2008 4:54:11 PM
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etnlyHis
Posts: 54
Joined: 8/18/2006
From: Iowa
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If you have sincerely accepted Jesus into your heart and repented of your sin, i believe He will never turn away.
however, people do often turn away. ( see the parable of the soils - IMO they did not truly accept Jesus to begin with) and they stop following after Him. He can't forgive what has not been confessed and repented. but He is there waiting... faithful, always loving.... arms outstretched...
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/3/2008 7:48:28 PM
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BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
Joined: 5/10/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Camille79
Does God ever give up on a Christian or discontinue his grace and salvation, if they are not being a good enough Christian. I have always been a Christian, but I worry that God has stopped forgiving me.
I know this is probably a stupid question, but for some reason, it just bothers me. I am trying to base my beliefs about being saved on solid things, like bible verses, instead of just feelings.
I love God, and being a Christian, but it takes some of the joy out of my life when I worry that God won't forgive me. I begin to worry too much about doing the right thing. I just want to know for sure. Does anyone know of any bible verses that say that God could give up on a Christian? I don't mean blasphemy of the holy spirit. I'm pretty sure that I have done that. Thank you very much!
I find more comfort in verses that say God will never give up on me, because I am one of His sheep, than in verses that seem to indicate that I can do something to get kicked out of His flock.
There is one particular quote that I find comforting: "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' (Matthew 7:22-23)
I find it comforting because He doesn't say "You didn't do enough" or "you did something to make me hate you"...He says "I never knew you".
If you are a Christian you know Christ (and He knows you): "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. (John 10:27-28)
He also says that they "Practice Lawlessness....what you want to get better at, you practice. That means they live lives of HABITUAL sin, they enjoy it and practice it so they can get better and better at that type of sin.
A Christian can fall into sin...the difference is that a Christian is miserable there (a sinner likes it there as it is his "natural habitat")...and misses the fellowship they had with God (because sin comes between us and God).
God made us: "Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." (Genesis 2:7)
He knows us, and our nature (Puffed up dirt):"For He Himself knows our frame; He is mindful that we are but dust." (Psalms 103:14)
So He is not surprised when we do sin...He even set up a way to deal with it:"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
Some times (not always) when we don't feel like God is around it is because we have unconfessed sin that needs to be dealt with...It never hurts then to pray"Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts; And see if there be any hurtful way in me, And lead me in the everlasting way."(Psalms 139:23-24)....and read the rest of Psalm 139 for comfort too.
His Grace is boundless...sometimes, however our repentance can be lacking which prevents His forgiveness...so God backs off to give us a bit of space.
But remember where God put our sin when He forgives it: "As far as the east is from the west, So far has He removed our transgressions from us. Just as a father has compassion on his children, So the LORD has compassion on those who fear Him."
(Psalms 103:12-13)
And when all else fails: “This I recall to my mind, Therefore I have hope. The LORD'S lovingkindnesses indeed never cease, For His compassions never fail. They are new every morning; Great is Your faithfulness." (Lamentations 3:21-23)
God is faithful even when we are not...that is why our salvation depends not upon us and what we have done, but upon Christ and what He has done.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)
If I didn’t do anything to earn my salvation, how can I do something to “unearn” it? God gave me the Gift of Salvation while I was still His enemy: “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8)
Having done that, why would He take that gift back: ”For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.” (Romans 5:10)
Hopefully this helps,
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/4/2008 11:30:42 AM
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loveineffable
Posts: 90
Joined: 5/23/2008
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Camille, No God never gives up on anyone. God loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, so that whoever believes upon the Son Shall have everlasting life.
It is a gift to you, the believer. It is free. We are not expected by God to maintain it (salvation).
We can either go forth and trust God to do the work provided by him to us, through us. Or we can go out and strive to do the work ourselves.
If we go out and strive to do the work ourselves, we create our own righteousness or our own unrightouseness.
Sounds to me as in your case you have created your own unrightouseness. Not thinking you are good enough.
None of us are good enough, none of us will ever be good enough, from our own efforts.
So prior to Christ no one was good enough and during the cross as well as after the cross, except one and only one CHRIST JESUS. Whom God made above all powers and principalities. proof in the ressurection.
The only grave empty, bones and all.
So if God says to change one mind from unbelief to belief, in his Son and you shall be saved. I think God tells the truth and man is a liar.
So ask yourself do you believe in Christ? I mean do you believe he came here to earth, born of the virgin Mary, walked the earth sinless, went to the cross taking away the sin of the whole world in his Fathers spirit.
Shedding his blood, being the last sacrifice for sin. That at the cross the Father through his Son forgave the entire world.
Read John 1 the whole chapter in context especially 1:29. Read Collossians where we are forgiven.
The only place that God gave forgiveness final was at the cross, to put forgiveness anywhere else would be unconcious blasphemy.
This act of asking further forgiveness, only keeps (or better yet) kept me drowning in my own unworthyness, to the point that I thought God had to be taking bepto-bismal on me.
But I found out God just loves, me, you, and the whole world, that he forgave me at the cross, that I needed to recieve this in order to go to the ressurection, where my sins and lawless acts are behind him never to see again.
Thus started a relationship with him teaching me to say no to unrightouseness, peeling me like an onion, crying in the beginning, and thanking him to teach me, you and anyone else that comes to belief.
It is called giving up on self effort and trusting God to do in you what you can not in self.
Thus God no longer lives just in you, but now through you, him doing the work, so there is no room for proudness or boastfulness.
Look at Matt 11 :28-30 and start resting through trusting. this does not mean to not work it means you can work with rest in your heart
ineffable love
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/5/2008 5:14:59 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2103
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Camille79
discontinue his grace and salvation, if they are not being a good enough Christian.
No.
There is no such thing as a "good Christian"... only a good Christ.
The only reason God gives us the time of day is because of the Son and His work on our behalf. It is His goodness (his righteousness), not ours, that makes us acceptable to him. Therefore, since God has accepted us in the first place despite our failings, why should he then reject us because of our failings?
If God has accepted us based on the righteousness of Christ alone, then if he rejects us who believe in Christ, it would be the same as rejecting his Son.
quote:
I have always been a Christian, but I worry that God has stopped forgiving me.
What God starts, he finishes. If you WERE forgiven, then you ARE forgiven.
quote:
I am trying to base my beliefs about being saved on solid things, like bible verses, instead of just feelings.
There are excellent verses provided. I encourage you to read the entirety of Romans.
quote:
I love God, and being a Christian, but it takes some of the joy out of my life when I worry that God won't forgive me. I begin to worry too much about doing the right thing.
Read Galatians. They worried that their faith wasn't enough, and started trying to earn their way (for which Paul gave them a sound verbal spanking).
As you read Galatians, and Paul's chastizement of them... remember how he starts the letter:
To the churches of Galatia:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
Even as they strayed into works mentality, they remained forgiven according to God's will.
Read both Corinthian letters. They also were messing up and yet Paul calls them saints:
2To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours
quote:
Does anyone know of any bible verses that say that God could give up on a Christian?
There are none.
But many to the contrary, as noted in other posts.
Grace and peace to you!
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/6/2008 12:31:50 AM
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LCannon
Posts: 1256
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: online
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Hebrews 6:9 “But…we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.”
There’s a real danger, Hebrews’ author says, of missing the rewards, chief among them is to glorify Jehovah, which accompanies salvation as we become hardened. 1Cor 3:11-16 “For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?”
The progression into hardness, lack of obedience or stagnation in one's walk starts with an unwillingness to appropriate his sacrifice in trust in his blood thus casting doubt on his work of redemption. As one becomes less sensitive to his quick and powerful influence of his Word our sacrifice and victory wanes hence lessens our influence in our wider sphere of the world. The resulting witness, or lack thereof, becomes just another voice in the gale of complacency that weaves itself into the fabric of society. If our level of hardness becomes the same fabric we will never have the influence to affect society. They can shed the tears of a repentant heart but God rarely removes the fruit of their disobedience and the damage to our witness and credibility will be borne as a legacy and our inheritance.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/8/2008 3:38:24 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 576
Joined: 12/22/2007
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Dear Camille,
If you were to glance through the Eternal Security thread, you would discover that this topic can be very controversial. With that said, there is such a thing as "false guilt" and on the other hand, "true conviction." One of the purposes of the Holy Spirit indwelling within us is to convict us of our sins and trespasses. This is God's wondrous and loving provision for us, in order to keep us on the path of righteousness. If you have never done so, I encourage you to read Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan. This allegorical story depicts a Christian who encounters many temptations on his path toward Heaven. Also, The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis, which depicts the stuggle between God and the devil.
I think Christ is very merciful and the Holy Spirit continually works within us, prodding us to live godly and holy lives which are acceptable to our Heavenly Father. Since such a great price was paid for our salvation upon the cross of Calvary by our Paschal Lamb, it can be said that God will go to great lengths to love His children.
But, we must remain steadfast in our faith and continue in our hope. We risk falling away from our Lord Jesus if we continue to grieve the Holy Spirit over and over again without repentance. For example, should one who has been regenerated and enlightened, return to his/her former manner of life and never repent, they will not inherit the kingdom of God. I've known Christians who think they can regularly commit serious sin and Christ will still accept them into His kingdom. They will have a rude awakening.
"You will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and severity of God; severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off." Romans 11:19-22
It does us well to pay heed to the admonitions in Holy Scripture. God bless you on your journey of faith.
Heavendweller
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/19/2008 8:18:49 PM
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percoid
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Joined: 6/19/2008
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I will tell u my story it may help. I was raised by my grandparents, They both had God's Spirit in their heart. They went to what is refered to as a holiness church, not a tongues church but they believed in tongues as I do but they believed tongues was for speaking to someone of another language as happened in the bible. They believe in 2 works of grace to recieve salvation and God's spirit in ur heart. I was heavily into drugs but I was becoming meserabal in my life. I believe it was God's doing. I started going to church. A revival was going on and one night the preacher was preaching about grieving God's Spirit away from u. When the alter call was given I knew if I did not repent and recieve Christ that night that when I walked out the door God would leave me and never come to me again, I went to the alter and recieved christ as my savior. It was 2 or 3 nights later that I went back to the alter and recieved God's spirit into my heart. I felt God's Spirit come into my heart, God showed me how black and filthy my heart was, but now it was purified. I believe I recieved God's Spirit easily because I WANTED God more than anyone or anything, I desired God in my heart more than anyone or anything. I did not care what I had to give up, where I had to go or what I had to do, I wanted God. This is what it takes to make God number one or MOST IMPORTANT to u and sad to say but FEW will do this and recieve God's Spirit. Most will not do this and will become what the bible refers to as the MANY in Matthew 7:22&23. I hope this helps u. Scripture (KJV or NKJV) The gospel of John 1:12 But as many as recieved Him, to them gave He power TO BECOME the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name. If u recieved God's Spirit when u accept Christ it would read, But as many as recieved Him became the sons of God.
< Message edited by percoid -- 6/19/2008 8:27:25 PM >
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RE: Does God ever give up on a Christian or - 6/24/2008 2:38:28 PM
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cognitivemagic
Posts: 208
Joined: 1/14/2008
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Ditto to Heavendwellers post.
However, Camille, the very fact that you are "bothered" is a solid indication that God has not given up on you because a reprobate or apostate person would not even care whether they had offended God beyond the point of being forgiven.
That's why the scripture says of the wicked "There is no fear of God before their eyes".
I like this quote from St. Justin Martyr:
"For Christ called not the just nor the chaste to repentance, but the ungodly, and the licentious, and the unjust; His words being, 'I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance' (Matt. 9:13). For the heavenly Father desires rather the repentance than the punishment of the sinner."
The First Apology of Justin ch. XV.--"WHAT CHRIST HIMSELF TAUGHT"
And the scripture says:
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."
(2 Peter 3:9)
< Message edited by cognitivemagic -- 6/25/2008 1:53:35 AM >
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