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Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/4/2008 12:07:56 PM
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senorcampana
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We are all entirely different, so here is my delimma. I read alot of history, and researched the origins of the Bible extensively in my search for a church home. I have been saved for 6.5 years and still struggle to find the authentic church.
As evangelicals, we tend to throw out almost 1900 years of church history and assume it is completely irrelevant, when actually the New Testament was not finalized and connonized till 367 A.D.in a letter from Bishop Athanasius. So that means there were disputes about what to include particularly with regard to James, Hebrews, Revelation, and the Didache; which occurred within that 1900year period of irrelevance?
What I'm tring to say is, the New Testament was not handed from our Savior to the Apostles right off the press! 
It took centuries of councils, deliberation, prayer, and of course direction from God to assemble it to perfection. THis was done in the "apostilic church", where there is a succession of bishops back to well before when the New Testament was connonized.
Names like Polycarp, Clement, Origen, Tertullian, and Augustin come to mind.
Here is waht I'm really trying to say:
The Apostollic Churches(Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican) have a great point when they affirm the importance of an apostolic church, and emphasise the importance of traditions handed down through the ages.
Christianity is rich with tradition and wonderful saints throughout the generations. Are there any evangelical churches that at least recognize our history?
I've been to every single denomination and I'm just looking for a home:
What are your oppinoins? (Catholic, Evangelical, Episcopal, ..etc..etc..)
I Thank you my fellow believers,
JAB
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/4/2008 12:42:28 PM
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colliefan
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I go to an evangelical Anglican church; while we value the history handed down to us, the Scriptures reign supreme.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/4/2008 4:23:23 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
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As for me and mine I will trust the New Testament over man's tradition in search of my Salvation.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/4/2008 7:39:25 PM
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earthless
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History and tradition are awesome things to hold and study. But everything stands or falls in light of Scripture - God's Word is the litmus.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/4/2008 8:51:38 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
History and tradition are awesome things to hold and study. But everything stands or falls in light of Scripture - God's Word is the litmus.
And as one studies history and tradition, one will see how those that preceeded us verated Scripture. Our task is to do the same for those who will follow us.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 7:16:06 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5585
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
History and tradition are awesome things to hold and study. But everything stands or falls in light of Scripture - God's Word is the litmus.
And as one studies history and tradition, one will see how those that preceeded us verated Scripture. ...
Many of them did, many of them did not, but made it up as they went along.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 8:51:12 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I've been to every single denomination and I'm just looking for a home: Wow, I've heard of church-hopping before, but this may set a new Guiness world record! 
Seriously, SenorC, what are you looking for in a local church? How would you prioritize sound doctrine, fellowship within the congregation, missional and evangelical outreach opportunities, and other potential characteristics? Personally, I have been a member of the same denomination for over 35 years - it is the largest Wesleyan/Holiness tradition presently in the world. I see us as about as mainstream in doctrine and polity as one can get. Certainly Rev Wesley based his understanding of theology on Scriptural Truth with significant input from tradition, reason, and personal experience. I cannot say for you, but it definitely works for me!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 2:41:39 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1071
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quote:
ORIGINAL: senorcampana
Here is waht I'm really trying to say:
The Apostollic Churches(Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican) have a great point when they affirm the importance of an apostolic church, and emphasise the importance of traditions handed down through the ages.
Christianity is rich with tradition and wonderful saints throughout the generations. Are there any evangelical churches that at least recognize our history?
I've been to every single denomination and I'm just looking for a home:
What are your oppinoins? (Catholic, Evangelical, Episcopal, ..etc..etc..)
I Thank you my fellow believers,
JAB
Christianity is not an organization, it is an Organism. Made up of all believers from all of time. And traditions are only beneficial when they are based on truth. Traditions based on error are not just damaging they are subversive. Our history is one of extreme polarization (that is stating it mildly), as the result of denominational prejudices.
IMHO, wherever you find yourself having fellowship with fellow Christians...you will have found the Church.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 3:28:18 PM
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flyboy2610
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There IS no 'pure' church. Every denomination or organization has missed it in at least 1 point of doctrine.
Some may have no real understanding of the path to salvation, some may have it confused as to church leadership or discipline, some may have missed it regarding eschatology. There is no such thing as a church that is absolutely correct in each point of doctrine.
(This should set off a firestorm!)
Look for a church that has the fundamentals of salvation correct, and there will be Christ.
_____________________________
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Red Green
If you're going to live like there's no hell..... you'd better be right.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 4:01:27 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Look for a church that has the fundamentals of salvation correct, and there will be Christ. I would state it just the reverse: Look for a church that shows the Love of Christ and their fundamentals of doctrine will be correct!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 4:43:13 PM
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Irish2
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
History and tradition are awesome things to hold and study. But everything stands or falls in light of Scripture - God's Word is the litmus.
It's just my humble opionion that God's word is his word whether it was written down or passed down through sacred tradition.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Where does scripure say that scripture is the final authority?
1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
I would recommend studying the writings of the early church fathers along with scripture to get an idea of the traditions of the early church.
_____________________________
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/5/2008 9:57:02 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6083
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Irish2,
Thank you for the recommendations, I have done that and continue to do so. Please do know that we have entire threads (some with hundreds of pages) where this topic/objection you bring up has been more than addressed.
The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed – the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable. The same cannot be said of tradition.
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture.
Traditions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith.
Sola scriptura is the only way to avoid subjectivity and personal opinion from taking priority over the teachings of the Bible. The essence of sola scriptura is basing your spiritual life on the Bible alone, and rejecting any tradition or teaching that is not in full agreement with the Bible.
Second Timothy 2:15 declares, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the Word of truth."
Sola scriptura does not nullify the concept of church traditions. Rather, sola scriptura gives us a solid foundation on which to base church traditions.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/6/2008 6:21:42 PM
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Irish2
Posts: 63
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Irish2,
Thank you for the recommendations, I have done that and continue to do so. Please do know that we have entire threads (some with hundreds of pages) where this topic/objection you bring up has been more than addressed.
The only way to know for sure what God expects of us is to stay true to what we know He has revealed – the Bible. We can know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that Scripture is true, authoritative, and reliable. The same cannot be said of tradition.
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture.
Traditions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith.
Sola scriptura is the only way to avoid subjectivity and personal opinion from taking priority over the teachings of the Bible. The essence of sola scriptura is basing your spiritual life on the Bible alone, and rejecting any tradition or teaching that is not in full agreement with the Bible.
Second Timothy 2:15 declares, "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the Word of truth."
Sola scriptura does not nullify the concept of church traditions. Rather, sola scriptura gives us a solid foundation on which to base church traditions.
earthless,
Sorry, your absolutely correct. Didn't mean to turn this into a debate on sola scriptura. 
Although I disagree with you on the subject, it's not within the OP's original question.
So we will agree to disagree for now.
Until next time....
_____________________________
"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G.K. Chesterton
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/6/2008 7:36:25 PM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
Posts: 148
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: FL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
As for me and mine I will trust the New Testament over man's tradition in search of my Salvation.
Thanks
RC
How did the New Testament develop?
Who decided the canon of the New Testament?
If you search out the answers to these questions, you will find the Catholic Church at the foundation of your answers.
The New Testament came out of the Church, not the other way around.
Peace,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/6/2008 7:41:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6083
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Scripture was around hundreds of years before the RCC was created. But.......................... we cannot discuss those things, so play nice DNP.
And who decided? God did.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/6/2008 7:47:34 PM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
Posts: 148
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: FL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flyboy2610
There IS no 'pure' church. Every denomination or organization has missed it in at least 1 point of doctrine.
Some may have no real understanding of the path to salvation, some may have it confused as to church leadership or discipline, some may have missed it regarding eschatology. There is no such thing as a church that is absolutely correct in each point of doctrine.
(This should set off a firestorm!)
Look for a church that has the fundamentals of salvation correct, and there will be Christ.
You must think Jesus was mistaken when He started His Church and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it.
Peace,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/7/2008 1:53:39 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: senorcampana
As evangelicals, we tend to throw out almost 1900 years of church history and assume it is completely irrelevant, when actually the New Testament was not finalized and connonized till 367 A.D.in a letter from Bishop Athanasius. So that means there were disputes about what to include particularly with regard to James, Hebrews, Revelation, and the Didache; which occurred within that 1900year period of irrelevance?
What I'm tring to say is, the New Testament was not handed from our Savior to the Apostles right off the press!
It took centuries of councils, deliberation, prayer, and of course direction from God to assemble it to perfection. THis was done in the "apostilic church", where there is a succession of bishops back to well before when the New Testament was connonized.
Names like Polycarp, Clement, Origen, Tertullian, and Augustin come to mind.
Here is waht I'm really trying to say:
The Apostollic Churches(Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican) have a great point when they affirm the importance of an apostolic church, and emphasise the importance of traditions handed down through the ages.
Christianity is rich with tradition and wonderful saints throughout the generations. Are there any evangelical churches that at least recognize our history?
JAB
Hi SeniorCampana:
You are asking some good questions. And, I relate to you in your quest to look at 'tradition'. Christians have struggled with the same issues we have for two thousand years. People a lot smarter than me have looked at scripture and have some very good interpretations. We are much richer when we make use of faithful Christians over thousands of years. They are a 'treasure trove' for us.
I am pleased to be able to tell you that there are some Protestant churches which do place a great value on tradition, and may be what you're looking for. These would be some of the historical protestant churches, the denominations coming out of the reformation, like the Lutherans, the Reformed Churches (Reformed, Presbyterian), and the Anglicans. You will find many Presbyterians, for example, who Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Origen, and the early church councils Now, whether you find these people will also depend on the congregation you find.
I'd also caution you to understand exactly what people mean when they say 'tradition', because Orthodox and their western colleagues, for example, lump several very different concepts under the term 'tradition'. Using two thousand years of christian experts as a treasure trove of wisdom and understanding is enormously valuable. But, that's very different concept from saying that those people, when taken as a whole, comprise a source of divine revalation.
I'd also say:
If Christ were here today, would he think it more important to:
1) Devoting yourself to finding and joining one 'right' organization which he founded?
2) Devoting yourself to those things he actually told us to do: repenting of our sins, having faith in God, serving our neighbors as ourselves, going throught the world and proclaiming him.
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RE: Evengelical, Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican - 10/7/2008 8:10:17 PM
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senorcampana
Posts: 2
Joined: 10/4/2008
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I appreciate your replies everyone
Your posts been very inciteful.
Thanks!!
in Jesus name,
jab
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