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Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 7:00:56 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10258
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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Noah was given 8 fish for his birthday in February and my SIL set up the tank for him. That was the deal...if she wanted to give him fish, she had to deal with the tank or teach me how because I have no clue. She didn't really keep up on it and didn't teach me what to do. Over the past month, the fish died one by one. Today, the last fish died. 
I don't want to pay for more stupid fish (shh...don't tell my son I said that) if we can't take care of them. Is it normal for fish to die so quickly? Since they died kind of spread out, I'm thinking it was probably not something wrong with the tank? But how would I know?
Also, our water from the tap is bad, so it has been a giant pain in the rear to keep getting good water from my mom's. I don't even really want to get more fish, but don't think I'm going to have a choice unless I want a revolt. The kids really liked the fish...until they started floating. 
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 7:31:08 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5091
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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What kind of fish and where were they purchased? Walmart fish typically die pretty quick.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 7:35:22 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10258
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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They were bought at Petsmart and were balloons and Mollies, not that I know what that means...LOL. They had fat bellies. Our Walmart doesn't have fish.
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 8:24:37 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4334
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I used to keep fancy gold fish, so all of this is going to be from a freshwater, not hardy gold fish perspective... it may not apply to your situation. Man, I haven't thought of all this info for 10 years! You know you're getting old when... 
You can't use any straight tap water because of the chemicals added to it, like chlorine. If you use plain tap water, you have to add an additive to it to to remove the chlorine. You also have to check the ph and add chemicals if the ph isn't right for the fish. ETA: you can also let water sit for a while and the chlorine evaporates. I believe it's 24 hours.
The tank needs to be cleaned weekly by suctioning out about 25% of the water from the gravel, to remove the waste that settles there. If you remove all the waste and all of the water, you also remove the good bacteria in the water and it kills the fish. So, you never ever want to have a perfectly clean tank. (It's like when we remove too much of our own bacteria and end up with another infection because our bodies need some bacteria to function properly and to keep really harmful bacteria at bay.) About once a month, you should remove about 50% of the water and waste. Add back in treated water at room temperature. Water that's not at the same temp as the tank can cause the fish to go into shock.
Don't over feed. That just adds waste to the water that can upset the balance. Make sure you are feeding quality food. You may need to add spirulina to their diet. It's a seeweed that's high in nutrition and is sold in flake form at the pet food stores. I don't recall if places like Wal-mart sold it or not.
Your fish should "tell" you if something is wrong. If they are coming to the top a lot, that means they aren't getting enough oxygen. (You do have an aeration system? That's something important I forgot to mention.) Once you get to know each fish, you can tell when they are lethargic or if they have some spots that are caused by fungus, ick, or other things. If you have seen problems like this, go to a pet store that knows something about fish (this would not be at a Wal-mart-type store) and describe the infection or behavior to them. They can get you meds and give you instructions on what got out of balance and what not to do again.
I found that having fish was all about keeping balance in the tank, and there was a lot of trial and error. It is frustrating at times, but we found it was well worth it in the end.
< Message edited by HisCovenant -- 6/24/2008 8:30:51 PM >
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 8:32:53 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10258
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
You can't use any straight tap water because of the chemicals added to it, like chlorine. If you use plain tap water, you have to add an additive to it to to remove the chlorine. You also have to check the ph and add chemicals if the ph isn't right for the fish. ETA: you can also let water sit for a while and the chlorine evaporates. I believe it's 24 hours.
My mom's water is spring water. People here don't have treated water unless they live right in larger towns.
Do you know what the ph is supposed to be?
quote:
The tank needs to be cleaned weekly by suctioning out about 25% of the water from the gravel, to remove the waste that settles there.
Yeah...this is one thing that SIL agreed to do. She came ONCE in 4 months.  I do not have the time or patience for this stuff, and she knew it when she got him the fish. I don't need another "thing" to take care of.  She did say if we got an algae eater (sucker fish?), it would help get rid of the waste. Is this true?
Yes, we have an aeration system...a large bubble stone hooked to a pump or something or other.
If anything the fish were underfed, not over. We fed them every 2-3 days.
The fish were acting lethargic before they died, but had no different markings on them.
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 8:38:01 PM
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karlie
Posts: 16938
Joined: 4/10/2005
From: Central California
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Donna, that reminds me of when Britt was little and someone gave her a goldfish with a bowl for her birthday. The first one died and I ran out and got another one. This happened three times in a row (about every week or so) and I thought she wasn't any the wiser. When the fourth one died, she calmly walked in and said "the fish died again...can I go with you to get the new one this time?" 
Good luck!
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All I have needed, Thy hand hath provided...great is Thy faithfulness, Lord unto me.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/24/2008 8:52:46 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4334
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That's funny, Karlie!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
Do you know what the ph is supposed to be?
?
I don't recall. I just remember testing for it often and comparing the color of the sample to a chart. Like I said, it's been 10 years.
quote:
quote:
The tank needs to be cleaned weekly by suctioning out about 25% of the water from the gravel, to remove the waste that settles there.
Yeah...this is one thing that SIL agreed to do. She came ONCE in 4 months. I do not have the time or patience for this stuff, and she knew it when she got him the fish. I don't need another "thing" to take care of. She did say if we got an algae eater (sucker fish?), it would help get rid of the waste. Is this true?
That's really frustrating. Isn't your son old enough to start doing some of that? Sorry... I can't remember his age! Anyhow, if she said she would do it, I can understand your frustration even if he is old enough. Plus even if he's old enough, he would need to be taught and supervised until she was sure he had learned... so for this discussion, I guess his age isn't important... she should have come more often.
A sucker fish will eat algae off the side of the tank, not control the bacteria. They can be uesful if you have too much algae, but they won't really affect the bacteria issue. I guess you could say taht they affect the balance, but not enough to be the answer to why the fish died. We had to get rid of ours because they kept attaching themselves to the goldfish and sucking off their protective slime coat! 
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 2:41:04 PM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 400
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
She did say if we got an algae eater (sucker fish?), it would help get rid of the waste. Is this true?
There are algae eating fish that eat algae. To eat the waste food at the bottom of the tank you need catfish. The name is Corydora, or something close to that. These are cute little guys that are about one to two inches long.
This does not solve the waste problem. You still need to clean out the bottom of the tank from time to time. Did she teach you how to use the sucking hose thingie to vacuum up the bottom of the tank?
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Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 2:58:58 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4205
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Leave your tank "up and running" until you get more fish.
I don't know what a balloon fish is, but mollies are pretty hardy. Man, I bred hundreds of mollies back in the day! Little cuties!
Anyway, they're tropical, so make sure your tank has an air pump, filter and heater. (And a thermometer!) If you don't dump the water, you shouldn't need to treat the water anymore. But Zippy is right, never fully clean out your tank because it contains bacteria and other things that actually protect your fish. To clean the gravel, you need a siphon. They're pretty cheap. They also sell scrapers if you get algae on the inside of the glass, also cheap.
Get a catfish or other bottom-feeder to help keep the rocks clean. The fish that cleans the glass is called a plecostomus. Also helpful. Don't get snails. They're like rabbits and they'll take over your tank.
Also as Zippy said, as you get to know your fish, you will be able to tell if there are problems with them. Most fish problems can be solved with chemicals you can buy in the pet section of Wal-Mart.
(Alternately, you can repopulate your tank with goldfish. They don't require heat.)
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 4:41:43 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10258
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
There are algae eating fish that eat algae. To eat the waste food at the bottom of the tank you need catfish. The name is Corydora, or something close to that. These are cute little guys that are about one to two inches long.
This does not solve the waste problem. You still need to clean out the bottom of the tank from time to time. Did she teach you how to use the sucking hose thingie to vacuum up the bottom of the tank?
No, she didn't. When she finally did come to do it, I wasn't here. But it can't be that hard, right? Does it have to be done less often if we have an algae eater?
quote:
(Alternately, you can repopulate your tank with goldfish. They don't require heat.)
I think this might be our best option. I need low maintenance. Are there any other kind of fish that can just LIVE? LOL
quote:
Donna, have you ever noticed that with all the critters I have, I don't have fish? Now you know why.
Yeah...this is why I didn't want fish unless someone ELSE was going to care for them. I am so seriously annoyed that she didn't follow through, when she told my KID she would. You don't even know...
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 4:49:40 PM
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cindybode
Posts: 1546
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From: Northwest PA
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Jesse has expressed an interest in getting fish. I told him that he has to do everything unless it is something he physically needs help with. He has agreed to do so, but I think we're gonna start with a goldfish bowl and work up from there.
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If you lock in any creature, from rats to chickens to pigs to people, 10 to 30 or more in a box and force feed them you'll create little monsters. Confinement Education School Operations (CESOs) just don't compare to naturally pastured free-ranged kids.
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 4:50:41 PM
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stellaluna
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How big is your tank?
You probably are going to have to suck the...debris...out of the rocks, no matter what you have living in the tank. Of course, the fewer fish you have, the less gunk. I don't think I've ever cleaned a tank as often as once a week. Maybe a couple of times a month, unless there were too many fish or some sort of problem. (I once had to take care of 24 tanks of fish at once! One of them had a dozen or so cichlids and a serious algae problem. It took weeks to get it under control.)
I think fish are fun to have and relatively low maintenance compared to other animals.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 5:07:04 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10258
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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I'm not sure how big it is...the standard small tank. 10 gallons??
So how many goldfish would I want? Are there other "easier" fish that would be good or should we just stick with goldfish?
I definitely want to train Noah to clean the tank...once I learn how. His fish...his job.
< Message edited by PrincessDonna -- 6/26/2008 5:13:32 PM >
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 5:25:39 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Hey there - I have had quite a few fish in aquariums - been keeping them since I was a child. I even had success at keeping wild specimens.
It is hard to keep them healthy if you do not know how to take care of them though, because alot can go wrong.
The type of fish you had need a heater in the water - at a constant for their species - overfeeding and underfeeding are both culprits in killing fish - oxygenation is very important and cleanliness - both glass and bottom.
Here are a few tips to help (if you still want to keep fish - if not, the hermit crabs sound interesting.......)
1) Don't buy your fish from Wal-mart - I buy alot at Wal-mart - but not their fish. They do not know how to look after them!
2) Do buy your fish from a reputable aquarium hobbiest type store rather than a general petstore type. People working in those stores go out of their way to help you because they actually care about the fish. (Sometimes too much, but that's another story)
3) You can find anything you need to know by doing a search online - Google whatever
4) Goldfish are usually an easy choice - don't need a heater - however, they are VERY dirty fish - don't overfeed.
5) Then there are the OSCARS - as anybody who knows them shrinks from their computer screen - LOL - they will have a go at it with or without heaters - they will grow to the size of your aquarium from little 1 inch fellows and they will eat your goldfish. You may also find them on the floor in the morning. They will learn to eat out of your hand and follow your movements with their eyes.
How about an ant farm? Never had one myself........... 
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 5:26:31 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4205
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Oh...get two or three of those nice big ones--Black Moores and Fantails are awesome. Maybe a black one and a gold one and a speckled one? Most goldfish are inexpensive and relatively hardy. (But don't feed them chocolate. My mom found that out the hard way.)
Make sure the ones you take home have flowing fins, no missing pieces from their fins or mouths, no redness around the gills (or super fast breathing) and no weird spots anywhere.
(Any other fish you buy really need a heater, if you don't have one. Goldfish are the easiest.)
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Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 5:39:17 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4334
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think fish are fun to have and relatively low maintenance compared to other animals.
The great thing about fish is that they are contained!! You don't have your neighbors mad because your cat howled all night under their bedroom window or because your dog thinks of their yard as a luxury bathroom.
You have to be careful getting some fantail goldfish, because not all are hardy. The Blackmoors are good, but once you get into the Oranda's they aren't very hardy. So don't go too fancy with the goldfish until you get the hang of the tank. Some are bred for their coloring and to be rare for serious hobbiests, not for a child to learn on.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Fish, fish, stupid fish (the kind in tanks) - 6/26/2008 6:03:00 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4334
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Actually, our fish used to greet us and "kiss" our fingers. Not as interactive as a fuzzy, 4-legged pet, but more interactive than I expected a fish to be.
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-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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so the store asked them to bring in a sample of the water and they said they would test it before they got anymore to see if the water was the problem. May be you could ask the store if they would do that before you invested in any more.
