|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 12:00:10 AM
|
|
|
vicbhe
Posts: 89
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
I am dating a wonderful lady. She has 2 boys 6 & 7. Problem is their dad/ her ex who was abusive to her and her older daughter is still making her life miserable. This is pretty common behavior from someone who is/was abusive. Let me say here that if you have never dealt with a violent abusive person you may not understand the depths of this situation.
The real problem we are having is that he is using the boys as little (innocent) informants to him. He drills them with questions about where their mom goes, what does she do, and especially who is she with? He makes scenes anytime they are in the same place in front of the kids about how he still loves her, wants her back etc. Tells the boys he loves their mom and they should encourage her to give him another chance. Again all this is text book perfect for the abuser.
The boys even though they are only 6 & 7 are not naive to what he is doing but often feel torn like they have to choose sides and sometimes tell him everything they know, which to be honest puts her in a potentially dangerous situation.
When he has the boys he will manipulate them into asking her where 'we' are. Once she tells the boys and he finds out, he will follow us around, even if it's 2am. He will load the boys up and go. He has waited for hours in a parking lot knowing she will pass that way on her way home from my house then follow her.
She has a restraining order against him, however like most abusers he knows exactly how far he can push things and not get arrested. I was in an abusive marriage myself, I have done much research on abuse and I fully understand what this man is capable of.
He has joint custody so he has them every other week. The boys are in counseling ordered by the courts as he has trumped up charges against their older sister. Just more ways he has of making their lives miserable, also typical of abuser/controllers.
What I’m looking for is advice on the best way to deal with the boys. How do you tell a 6 & 7 yr old that they shouldn't tell Dad where mom is all the time? How do you tell them they shouldn’t tell Dad when mom is with her friend, or that her friend came over, or is at the house now? How do you explain to them that mom is not mean just because she disciplines them and daddy doesn't? (They have zero discipline with him and are even encouraged to misbehave).
Just an FYI, this is not the first time I have dealt with this stuff. I have had my life threatened by ex's more than once, even had them threaten harm to my children; it's an evil world out there. Just most of the time I decided the relationship wasn't worth it to me and moved on. I plan to stay in this relationship.
_____________________________
“You cannot improve your righteousness by tearing down the righteousness of others”. W.O. Vaught
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 9:39:43 AM
|
|
|
deermousie
Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
|
If you marry this woman you will marry the ex-husband. There will be three of you in this marriage for the next 12 years at least. Your step-sons will be turning on the spit BBQ of this horrible man all their childhood, and his evil influence will go unabated except for the grace of God (who will bring them through it probably, not take him out).
The woman of your affections once thought this guy would be a great husband and father. You sure you want to jump in and obligate yourself to her when you'll have no power in the situation with the ex? What will happen if you two have children of your own, and the older kids have to go to Bad Daddy when yours don't? What about the natural feelings of resentment they'll feel towards your helpless little children? And those kids with Bad Daddy will be older than yours and a role model while they're stuck in the same house together.
I'd think through the ramifications very carefully.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 10:01:09 AM
|
|
|
laura...
Posts: 2925
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
How do you tell a 6 & 7 yr old that they shouldn't tell Dad where mom is all the time? How do you tell them they shouldn’t tell Dad when mom is with her friend, or that her friend came over, or is at the house now?
You don't. You cannot put these children in the mddle by telling them what not to tell. Honestly, this isn't their problem. It's her problem. If he is stalking her she needs to file charges. If he is involving the children in stalking her then she needs to go to court and get his visitation rights revoked.
quote:
How do you explain to them that mom is not mean just because she disciplines them and daddy doesn't? (They have zero discipline with him and are even encouraged to misbehave).
She explains to them that she disciplines them because she loves them enough to set rules and boundaries in order to keep them safe, keep order in the home and to help them grow up to be responsible adults. She must leave their father's form of parenting out of the conversation. When they say (and they will), "But, daddy doesn't make us..." or "Daddy let's us..." She should reply with, "That's daddy's rules for daddy's home. This is our home and these are our rules." She can go on to explain that different places have different rules. Schools have their rules. Playgrounds have their rules. Churches have their rules. She doesn't set the rules at school. She doesn't set the rules at church or the playground. And, she doesn't set the rules at daddy's house but she does set the rules for at home and when they are with her.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 11:16:31 AM
|
|
|
nuinchrist
Posts: 46
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
|
Document, document, document....call the cops everytime he does something stupid. He might not get arrested, but you're building a case just in case he steps out of bounds.
Also, tell her to go back to court and ask for sole custody. Bring the documentation, have the children seek therapy so that a report can be placed in the hands of the court, and write a note from this kids and have them hand it to their father explaining they don't want to be inbetween this. Make sure it's in their writing. Honest and straight forward. She should have a meeting with the ex to include a clergyman or pastor to discuss the ramifications of this actions. These kids are victims and the law is on her side. Exercise it!
A little tough love, but very much needed.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 12:18:46 PM
|
|
|
Sadey
Posts: 455
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline
|
There is a man from Kansas City, his last name was Porter, he killed his son and daughter and then played mind games with his ex wife and the police. Only when he was afraid the prision they were going to send him to did he show where he had buried the children.
Please don't think this wouldn't happen to your loved one's children. The ex is very very abusive and may be capable of murder.
I agree with the documenting. Every little detail should be noted. Maybe you and mom could back off from letting the kids know everything? Maybe a better lawyer?
I hope this works out for everyone because those children deserve a peaceful life.
Deermousie as usual gave insightful advice and it would pay to sit down and really thing about the future with this man in your life and hers. Is the price worth it?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 12:31:42 PM
|
|
|
imdeanam
Posts: 127
Joined: 7/21/2007
From: Washington state
Status: offline
|
I do agree with everything that has been said and I think you have to weigh this carefully. As you already know abusers are capable of anything sometimes. The only thing I would say looking in having been emotionally and verbally abused myself... I would feel so blessed to have someone alongside me through all this. Of course you are not obligated at all and need to take care of yourself too and protect your loved ones. But if you believe she is the one you are supposed to marry, then advocate for her being aware of the danger and do everything you can to stay protected. She is probably scared to death and needs support badly. Its was so sad when I had to try and figure out what an abuser thinks like so I could be safe.
I will be praying for this situation and God's hedge of protection for all.
_____________________________
Live out loud!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 1:37:46 PM
|
|
|
hotsaucygma
Posts: 3106
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I would assume that your friend has tried to limit what she tells the boys? I realize she can not totally keep them or her Ex from knowing where she is in case there is a real need to get ahold of her, but could she get a "dispoable" cell phone for use in just such a case? The boys and her Ex could have that number and not her other numbers? They would always be able to get ahold of her but would not need to know where she is. If the boys ask where she will be she can just say she doesn't know where she'll be or what she'll be doing for sure, but they can always call her on that special number. She could tell her Ex that she may always be reached at that number but that she does not need to give out any further information.
Laura is right, the boys should not be put in the middle. The Ex will do this if he can, but you can limit their involvement by limiting their "knowledge".
Others are right too. Document everything- even the smallest details.
Good luck to both of you- no, all of you, if you decide to pursue the relationship! And please, take measures to be safe- for all of you.
_____________________________
Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 2:01:52 PM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 6007
Status: offline
|
Oh, wow ... memories. Even though my abusive/manipulative/controlling ex lived 1800 miles away, he still did some of that stuff. Those weekly conversations to our son were filled with "What are you doing? Where are you? Who's with you?" etc. When I was required to give him my address, as required by the court, because in my state they will not issue or allow one to maintain a restraining order if there has been no contact for one year, I was scared to death. All those years of hearing him say "... and nobody will ever be able to trace it back to me ..." knowing he knew "people" (he used to work with gang members in south central LA ... yes, so many threats, and there were suddenly strange things that started happening to me once he got my address.
Okay, okay, okay ... I have gone slightly off track here. I'm sorry.
Yes, that personality is absolutely horrible to have to deal with. The one thing I tried to instill in my son, who was 8 when we left my ex, was that his phone calls between him and his dad were to be about the two of them, not about what I was doing from minute to minute, or who I talked to, or who my friends were, or where I was working. I discussed this with my attorney, and his suggestion was to put all phone calls on speaker phone, and knowing this, it did stop the behavior for the most part. It put my son in an extremely awkward situation, and I know he loved his dad (I say it in past tense because he is now deceased), but I also made it very clear that if his dad wanted to know anything about me that he was to ask me ... not our son. And then we had some practice conversations. I also had a couple good friends join me by reiterating that his dad needed to ask me anything about me or who I talked to or what I did or where I worked, and that I would be happy to answer his questions, and we made it clear that his dad was to focus on him when they talked. They also had some of these practice conversations, and it helped quite a bit.
Before I left him and we were still living in the same state, I would have to carry a camera around with me, along with a little notebook, and take pictures of their vehicle(s) and write down any strange occurences. I always stayed in public places, and always tried to have others around me. I would always get a receipt that had a date and time stamp on it, because his family got this brilliant idea of trying to get a restraining order against me for following them around (which was completely untrue), and those little receipts as well as the people who were always with me came in handy to prove that I was somewhere altogether different every time they claimed I was following them. To be honest, it was an enormous amount of effort on my part, and I hated that I couldn't even stay at home by myself because then I didn't have and "proof" just in case they wanted to pull something, but in the long run it was well worth it.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 2:24:41 PM
|
|
|
SuccessinTruth
Posts: 76
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
|
vicbhe,
You've received some excellent advice. Please listen to Laura. And do document every situation. Police reports, dates and specific incidents show that you aren't just making vague accusations. Letting her sons use their own, uncoached words to describe what is going on is also a big plus. There is a lot you can do, the courts may be slow but perhaps you can see to it that his visitation rights are supervised so that they are doing less damage to the children. And then pray for him, all of you, that The Lord might grant him peace. God bless you all, have faith.
_____________________________
May we Glorify the Lord in all that we say and do
SuccessinTruth
www.mybenefitsplus.com/40623337
affordable dental and health care plans
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 9:36:56 PM
|
|
|
agapetos
Posts: 5563
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
Status: offline
|
This thread came to mind today as I was thinking about another very difficult situation that someone I know is in. What concerns me is the children. They're still young and most children are hurt by their parents divorce. What goes on between their parents in the coming years is going to affect them for the rest of their lives.
I can't help but feel that perhaps the children should be put first here ~ and their mother shouldn't date anyone until they are older and can better deal with their father. I know that sounds unfair on their mother (because their father shouldn't be dating either) but they need stability and no matter how wonderful a man you may be, they're not getting it right now.
_____________________________
I could give up chocolate ~ but I'm no quitter!
My blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/8/2008 10:43:27 PM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 6187
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
Could I just ask for how long she has been divorced from this man?
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/9/2008 11:39:31 AM
|
|
|
Focusing
Posts: 6007
Status: offline
|
quote:
they need stability
Yes! Stability is one of the most important things for children.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/9/2008 7:46:25 PM
|
|
|
preserved
Posts: 613
Joined: 6/12/2007
Status: offline
|
vicbhe...you are in a tough situation. I feel that she needs to limit her activites to the boys...lest information to inform to their dad...The cell phone sounds like an excellent idea...This way if they need their mother for anything all they have to do is call. Someone else mentioned camera and notebook...Good idea as well...whenever she spots him...take pictures and documents...these can be used as evidence....My main concern is the children...There are so many things happening all because people choose to ignore...it is the little details of things one does not think about...why the dad wants to know every accountable details...what could he really be up to...unfortunately her boys has no clue nor idea...you may need to limit your visits or dates with her...for the safety of her but particulary the boys...they are easy targets to manipulate as the father is doing now...Prayer does change things...but being sensible is being wise..
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/9/2008 8:30:57 PM
|
|
|
MC4JC
Posts: 201
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
|
I was in an abusive marriage. I would document all the actions and have the boy's mother talk to the counselor about what is going on. You are right - he should not be putting the kids in the middle as "informants". Many abusive parents do that because they really only care about themselves - they don't care who they hurt.
If she has a restraining order against him for herself, she really should have one for the kids too. And maybe the counselor can recommend a SUPERVISED visitation with the father for awhile. As long as the father has access to the kids away from the other parent, he can brainwash them more. The visitations really should be supervised. I'd get a lawyer and take this back to family court now.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/12/2008 9:19:02 PM
|
|
|
jaimestarcross
Posts: 769
Joined: 11/28/2005
Status: offline
|
The situation is out of your hands... it's up to the lady you are dating
to get things in hand and provide stability (as much as possible.)
Sounds like she's feeding him information through the children knowing they will tell dad once he starts his questioning - that's fueling the situation.
She doesn't sound like she's ready to be dating... even though she wants to date & have romance in her life. When her child asks her where she is and who's she with - she gives them the info. knowing their dad will drill them for the info. she shouldn't feed them that information... all they need to know - she loves them and she's having a nice evening out and what time she'll be picking them up.
As long as both parents are using the children - no one wins and the children get hurt.
The situation is volatile because of the games being played - I really advise against dating a woman who's in that kind of drama/situation.
Encourage her to keep documentation on her ex's tactics/antics - and reporting inappropriate behavior/activities to the court.
*Then put some distance between you and her.... she needs time to
heal/recover from a bad divorce and learn to handle the bad relationship between her and the ex.
She should be in counseling and she could gently urge her ex to get counseling too, so they can stop the games and put the children's best interest and well being ahead of their own.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/12/2008 9:47:02 PM
|
|
|
agapetos
Posts: 5563
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
Status: offline
|
quote:
The situation is out of your hands...
quote:
She doesn't sound like she's ready to be dating... The situation is not out of his hands. I'd be inclined to agree that she doesn't sound ready to be dating. He could end the relationship.
I have to confess that I also feel that the op could benefit from some therapy. He says that this is not the first time that he's been involved with someone who's been in an abusive relationship and it may be worth him exploring why this is the case.
Please note, I'm NOT saying that it's wrong to be involved in someone who's been in an abusive relationship, just that care needs to be taken when it's happening several times.
_____________________________
I could give up chocolate ~ but I'm no quitter!
My blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Her controling abusive ex. - 9/25/2008 5:40:56 PM
|
|
|
vicbhe
Posts: 89
Joined: 4/24/2005
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
I have to confess that I also feel that the op could benefit from some therapy. He says that this is not the first time that he's been involved with someone who's been in an abusive relationship and it may be worth him exploring why this is the case.
No I'm fine and not attracted to people with issues. I have dated a lot of people in the past 3 years so naturally Im going to run into stuff like this. Normally I see these situations and move on. I'm not in any hurry to move on this time. I do not see this as my battle, it is hers. I just have to tolerate him for a while and hope he settles down eventually.
My original question was asking for advice concerning the boys, this is now a non-issue as he has managed to have me restrained from being anywhere near the boys (I may be a bad influence on them). I'm not accused or charged with anything, it's a long story and irrelavant to my original questions.
I'm not as upset about this as she is as I am not dating her boys, Im dating her. I prefer not to involve the kids until later in the dating process anyway.
_____________________________
“You cannot improve your righteousness by tearing down the righteousness of others”. W.O. Vaught
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
