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Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 1:02:34 PM
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Kooks
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I am disgusted by the hypocrites within my church. I am sickened at the fact that they call themselves 'Chirstians' and then proceed to act in a completely selfish manner where they only cause hurt and pain. How can they possibly justify their actions to themselves, let alone God?
Take one (and only one) example. A female friend of mine was told something by me in confidence. Instead of being supportive and kindly in her response, she proceeded to run around the entire congregation (not literally but you catch my meaning) and inform them of my crisis. Had I wanted them to know I would have told them myself but I didn't, I told her in confidence and she betrayed that. And then proceeds to refuse to apologise or even acknowledge that her actions were harmful.
But, as I sat here thinking (and ranting) I realised that it is not her or my church that is the problem. It occurs on a widespread level, people assume that because they speak the right words and go to church that they are fine and can act in whatever manner they then chose to. Because of this the Church is suffering and falling into ridicule, people are turning away from the Church to find a more accomadating religion where they can be with genuine people and they are ignoring the most important thing; that Jesus died for us and our sins. They ignore this because they refuse to believe that anyone with followers like us can be beneficial to their soul. This is the saddest thing of all; the hypocrites are driving people away from salvation.
I am not sure exactly what I am expecting from this post but I will stop now. Otherwise I will just rant on...
Kooks x
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 1:15:22 PM
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rcjames
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In all honesty there are many ways to look at your post.
Did you ask the person to pray about it and not to seek the prayer or advice of others to help you with your "Situation"?
Why would you not go the the 'Church" as a whole and confess your faults one to another and seek the counsel and help of all?
And then there is the possibility that the one you told is into the sin of Gossip.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 1:17:38 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1885
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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Instead of ranting and complaining about all the problems out there, I encourage you to concentrate on the problems within yourself. I know it's frustrating, and it's easier to complain about what's done to us, but remember - God doesn't look at how good we are at pointing out other people's faults, He looks at how well we work with Him in correcting our own.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 1:19:19 PM
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terryjohn
Posts: 469
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If what she has said is the truth, you should not be ashamed and confess your sins and weaknesses like no man has ever done before but certainly do not be the hypocrate by saying they don't exist or they are lies. Can you be blamed for trusting this woman? The fear of trusting others and confessing our sins is the Christian hypocracy.
At this moment you are angry and ashamed now accept forgiveness and the freedom it brings. Be not like a man in your relations with others after this but Christ.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 2:03:20 PM
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tw12357
Posts: 49
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If what you told her was in confidence, sin or not, and she repeated it to others, I would call it gossip. Especially if it was a sin - "this is what this person did ...". What she did isn't right, but you will need to forgive her for it, "forgive and you'll be forgiven". Its always hard to forgive those who do us wrong, especially when they don't see anything wrong with it.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 2:22:53 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kooks
How can they possibly justify their actions to themselves, let alone God?
At some point, they are going to have to try, and they might be surprised. .
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 2:36:38 PM
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jaggie
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What I usually do to see if I can trust a person is I tell them and only them something that I don't mind getting out. If it gets back to me than obviously that person can't be trusted.
Once I trust that person, if I need to tell them something and I don't want it to get around, then before I say anything important I ask them to please not say anything to anyone else. If they do after I have asked them specifically not to, then shame on them.
Some people genuinely don't realize that they can't pass on some things, and they just truly don't understand what it means to keep confidences. Or it could be that they genuinely want to help.
When we took in my baby cousin, I only told 2 people at church about the situation and pretty soon a LOT of people knew. People really did want to help if they could but I was very surprised at how many people knew what was going on. Even staff members I didn't know knew about it and were praying for us to keep custody of him.
I didn't mind so much that they knew about that, but there are other things I'd not want them to know just yet so I keep it between me and God for now. Just because they are a good Christian and/or go to your church doesn't mean they can be trusted not to wash your dirty laundry in public.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 3:16:45 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kooks
I am disgusted ...
Are you disgusted by sin (so is God) or by your inconvenience and chagrin? God saw the mess humans were in, and His response was to suffer in their place so they could live in His place. What can you do to help?
quote:
...by the hypocrites within my church. I am sickened at the fact that they call themselves 'Chirstians' and then proceed to act in a completely selfish manner where they only cause hurt and pain.
One word: carnal.
One solution: God
Many ways to get there: teaching from the pulpit; hearing God's Word about gossip from your lips, prayer, wise advice from elders for other means (even Matt. 18 if it goes that far and the person refuses to repent).
quote:
How can they possibly justify their actions to themselves, let alone God?
Who said carnal Christians think about standing before God? It seems to me most of them are busy trying to make life as easy and affluent as possible.
quote:
I told her in confidence and she betrayed that. And then proceeds to refuse to apologise or even acknowledge that her actions were harmful.
Then you can start Matt. 18 proceedings on her: go back with witnesses and talk to her about her sin. If she still refuses to back down, go to the pastor about standing up in church and challenging her to repent. Hope your pastor has the Bible knowledge and the giblets to do it.
quote:
But, as I sat here thinking (and ranting) I realised that it is not her or my church that is the problem. It occurs on a widespread level, people assume that because they speak the right words and go to church that they are fine and can act in whatever manner they then chose to.
I agree with most of what you said, but it is her and your church and the Church (all believers everywhere) that has the problem, because the Bible talks about what to do with this kind of thing and she probably didn't hear it from your pulpit and wouldn't from most pulpits. We have believers who refuse to do things God's way, and it waters the Church down to a social club (and often a catty one at that).
quote:
Because of this the Church is suffering and falling into ridicule, people are turning away from the Church to find a more accomadating religion where they can be with genuine people and they are ignoring the most important thing; that Jesus died for us and our sins. They ignore this because they refuse to believe that anyone with followers like us can be beneficial to their soul. This is the saddest thing of all; the hypocrites are driving people away from salvation.
Yes. And it gives the nonbelievers an excuse to reject God. But it's only an excuse, and they'd probably do it anyway. We just make it easier for them to lie to themselves.
In the book of Revelation, Jesus takes various churches to task of how they aren't following God like they have been taught. Two answers come to my mind for present day: make sure I am following God as best I know how, and go to a church that unashamedly preaches all of God's Word (I tell you, it's not popular everywhere).
Gossip: talking about things which you're neither part of the problem or part of the answer.
Please start looking how you can do what the Bible says and helping out people. It's the business God is in. God bless.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 5:42:24 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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Often, a "christian gossiper" (oh Lord, WHAT An oxymoron!), I mean a church gossiper will disguise their need to "tell all" with the pretext of, "Pray for so and so, she and her husband have been fighting & he hit her and she......" and these are the most difficult to deal with. They look at you all innocent when you confront them and get defensive saying they were only sharing what you had shared with them and it is all in prayer.
Best way to deal is, since you said that you told her "in confidence" & she broke that trust, that you have already confronted her & she is not apologetic, then learn from it. Never confide in her again. If asking for prayer again, ask for an "unspoken" prayer. God knows & that is the One that will answer your prayer anyway.
The way I find a true "confidant" is, I come up with a piece of information that is really juicy, but entirely ludicrous & bogus. I then confide in my subject and if it gets around, I just laugh it off and say, well, another one bites the dust and I move on. This is not to set a trap or snare anyone. On the contrary, it is to weed out the thorns.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 8:14:41 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
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Yes, Christians aren't perfect, none of us. So where does God want you to go from here?
Forgive them and move on.
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -Matthew 6
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 8:38:34 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
I am disgusted by the hypocrites within my church. I am sickened at the fact that they call themselves 'Chirstians' and then proceed to act in a completely selfish manner where they only cause hurt and pain. How can they possibly justify their actions to themselves, let alone God?
Greetings. Welcome to the human race.
quote:
I encourage you to concentrate on the problems within yourself. I know it's frustrating, and it's easier to complain about what's done to us, but remember - God doesn't look at how good we are at pointing out other people's faults, He looks at how well we work with Him in correcting our own.
An excellent observant post in my opinion.
I believe its a world war 1 saying but it applies....loose lips sink ships. When you confide in others you create a situation to be let down. That....defines them. How...you react to it defines you.
It seems...the only good christians are the ones you don't know very well. If indeed this was a gossip situation, you now know this person to be a gossip. You learned something.
Now, what to do about it? I don't think we can make someone apologise or repent.
Matthew 18:15-21 comes to mind.
This has been my experience when I call someone a sinner. It just seems whenever I do this, its not too much later..I do the same sin. Its like God shows me..I am no different. For me to call ANYONE a sinner is the height of hypocracy.
Walk humbly and be quiet. Listen for the Holy Spirit to guide you. Wait before you speak. Judge yourself. Over time the people you CAN confide in will be apparent. If a mistake is made, you learned something and how you handle that, will mature you.
Mattehw 18 works. My pastor has said only once has it gone before the body, the last step, in his experience. Usually when someone won't confront their own sin with a one on one, bringing others into it, as Matthew 18 says, is the cure.
If done this way, remember, we are not in the business of self righteousness. We are in the business of reconciliation...to bring our fellow famly members back inot the fold and away from their sin. If you apporach someone with indignation over their sin, you will fail.
Love that sinner. The best "revenge" is love. You will heap burning coals on their head by loving them. Your actions will convict them, in love, more than any words can. They treated you poorly, you love them back.
Forgiveness...its not just a word, its a lifestyle.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/14/2008 11:11:04 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
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I think you need to take a deep breath, and then let it out slowly. You're friend may have ran over church telling others b/c she cared for you and wanted others to pray for you. If she just wanted to gossip, then that is bad. But instead of fumming over her, forgive her. Sometimes God allows this stuff just to give us practice in something so we'll be equipped for the bigger thing that lies ahead. Be the bigger person and forgive. Let it go, just as Christ Jesus forgave you.
kim
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kooks
I am disgusted by the hypocrites within my church. I am sickened at the fact that they call themselves 'Chirstians' and then proceed to act in a completely selfish manner where they only cause hurt and pain. How can they possibly justify their actions to themselves, let alone God?
Take one (and only one) example. A female friend of mine was told something by me in confidence. Instead of being supportive and kindly in her response, she proceeded to run around the entire congregation (not literally but you catch my meaning) and inform them of my crisis. Had I wanted them to know I would have told them myself but I didn't, I told her in confidence and she betrayed that. And then proceeds to refuse to apologise or even acknowledge that her actions were harmful.
But, as I sat here thinking (and ranting) I realised that it is not her or my church that is the problem. It occurs on a widespread level, people assume that because they speak the right words and go to church that they are fine and can act in whatever manner they then chose to. Because of this the Church is suffering and falling into ridicule, people are turning away from the Church to find a more accomadating religion where they can be with genuine people and they are ignoring the most important thing; that Jesus died for us and our sins. They ignore this because they refuse to believe that anyone with followers like us can be beneficial to their soul. This is the saddest thing of all; the hypocrites are driving people away from salvation.
I am not sure exactly what I am expecting from this post but I will stop now. Otherwise I will just rant on...
Kooks x
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 8:45:14 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1868
Joined: 5/23/2006
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well first, and foremost, NO MAN can keep anyone from following CHRIST if that is their desire to do so.....I don't buy the part of your post where you said "the hypocrites are driving people away from salvation." Anyone who says that is looking at man instead of God and man will always disappoint because man is in the sin nature (flesh).
I do understand it hurts when a confidence is betrayed...but you have to know opening yourself up to people is equal with opening yourself up to the risk of hurt, betrayal, and many other things....if the two of you are truly friends you will find a way to deal with all that happens and move foreward. If not, as others have said, you must forgive them anyhow.
Plus it is not clear in your post if you specifically asked the friend to keep what you said in strict confidence. You used the word "crisis" so maybe the friend felt compelled to find someone who could help you through the crisis. Have you asked her about what happened?
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 10:14:41 AM
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LivingParadox
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Well, first and foremost about your story is she betrayed your trust.
Proverbs 11
12 A man who lacks judgment derides his neighbor,
but a man of understanding holds his tongue.
13 A gossip betrays a confidence,
but a trustworthy man keeps a secret.
14 For lack of guidance a nation falls,
but many advisers make victory sure.
Forgive her, don't share vunerable information with her again and move on. I was fortunate enough to be in a lay ministry several years ago that walked one to one with individual going throug various crisis places in their lives. The first rule of this kind of ministry is confidentiality so that trust can be established. Once trust is established you have a much stronger foundation to enter into the deeper, harder places walk. I personally think this is where we see true growth in a persons faith when another Christian is willing to give of themselves in this way.
Sadly, with individuals and the Church as a whole it's much more appealing to "entertain" themselves with someones trials and troubles by gossiping than actually walk and help them. Now to the credit, there ARE christians down in the trenches doing these kinds of things daily, quietly and you never realized these things are going on. You know about the hypocrites fairly quickly because they are the "noisy" christians.
In order to make a difference in peoples lives, we as the Church have got to correct ourselves through the help of the Holy Spirit. Are there times when bad behavior should be revealed to the Church, well, yes. But there is a very specific way to handle this kind of thing of taking it to leadership with a witness, then to the elders long before it hits the "church" as whole. Screened long before it hits the "prayer chain" to be filtered to know if it's something should be shared -- because once it's out there it can't easily be taken back. I would hope a rule of thumb for the church would be "does it affect the entire church?" or "is it something that needs to be dealt between certain individuals?" Not every issue needs to be church fodder -- and gives room for the situation to improve with faithful Christian support and accountability.
My thoughts on your specific situation... I'm sorry you've had to go through this kind of thing, may God use it in someway to His glory. Use better judgement in the future who you share while not losing the vunerability of a teachable heart. Sometimes even using wise judgement you'll still get burnt -- after all churches are a lot like families with lots of personalities with flaws and faults, but also like families the role model are the parents (church leaders) who set the tone.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 11:09:22 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6348
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When people complain to me about imperfect people at church (gasp! what a shock) being the reason why they do not attend any local church - I always say that it seems odd that hypocrites at their workplace never seems to stop them from collecting a pay check from their.
If you find a perfect church, please do not attend it.. you will ruin it.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 1:31:41 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 414
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To, uh, add a bit of balance to your responses. I can imagine that you're disappointed, if not down-right hurt by the betrayal of confidence. I hope you've allowed it to teach you though, how not to treat others! (It's how I deal with "the bright side" of things when I've been 'wronged' by someone).
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 2:03:04 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1341
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
The way I find a true "confidant" is, I come up with a piece of information that is really juicy, but entirely ludicrous & bogus. I then confide in my subject and if it gets around, I just laugh it off and say, well, another one bites the dust and I move on. This is not to set a trap or snare anyone. On the contrary, it is to weed out the thorns.
If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, surely it is a duck but in this scenario, this is not only a snare, it is a lie.
The main question the OP could raise is if you cannot trust a church going person, who then can you trust? The answer is simply God.
True friendship takes time and when an apparent bond has been made, then you have a confidant. We should never deliver personal information to anyone other than someone who has earned our trust.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 3:10:53 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DuckTalk
Sufferin' sassafrass.
If you're gonna quote Daffy, try to get it right....it's "Suffering Succotash" not Sassafrass!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 8:20:44 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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You know, this really annoys me. If someone tells someone that is sensitive, then that person should not go to others and talk to them about it without first getting permission. It's called love. If you told somebody something that you are sensitive about, would you want them telling others. We all have the ability to tell if that something is sensitive, or if talking about it would be hurtful for that person. Walking wisely and lovingly is the responsibility of all Christians. Betraying someone's trust or going behind their back is unloving. (See backbiting, gossiping in the listings of actions of those who are walking in the flesh.)
At the same time, you must be able to forgive them, and give the hurt to God. If not, you will grow resentful or bitter of that person or toward them. That does not mean that you can go back to them and discuss something that might be hurtful if others find out about it. One of the posters was right in that there is not much you can do to change the other person's actions or attitudes. Focus on your own walk of obedience, and let God be your source. This is an opportunity for you to grow spiritually, so show the person some love.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/15/2008 8:31:35 PM
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bravjim
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Joined: 10/8/2008
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When people do not see Christ in a believer, then how are they to know the truth of who Christ is. The church is to be Holy (set apart from the world), and the world focuses on the sins of the church more than they focus on Christ. We are the ones who draw others to Christ by our witness. If the witness is false, then they will percieve it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
well first, and foremost, NO MAN can keep anyone from following CHRIST if that is their desire to do so.....I don't buy the part of your post where you said "the hypocrites are driving people away from salvation." Anyone who says that is looking at man instead of God and man will always disappoint because man is in the sin nature (flesh).
I do understand it hurts when a confidence is betrayed...but you have to know opening yourself up to people is equal with opening yourself up to the risk of hurt, betrayal, and many other things....if the two of you are truly friends you will find a way to deal with all that happens and move foreward. If not, as others have said, you must forgive them anyhow.
Plus it is not clear in your post if you specifically asked the friend to keep what you said in strict confidence. You used the word "crisis" so maybe the friend felt compelled to find someone who could help you through the crisis. Have you asked her about what happened?
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Hypocrisy and 'Christians' - 11/16/2008 2:06:48 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1868
Joined: 5/23/2006
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The Bible teaches we know the Truth by the Holy Spirit. He IS our teacher, leader, and guide into ALL truth.
It also says we are known by the fruit we bear....however, that does not mean any of us are perfect. A righteous man or woman will point to Christ, not themselves, as the example to follow.
If I had waited to see perfect people in the church I'd still be a gambler, drinker, liar, and a lot of other things..whereas now I am a sinner saved by grace.
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