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Incompatible Ministers - 12/1/2008 4:33:17 PM
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BarryLee
Posts: 30
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Recently I have noted a number of controversies where Ministers behave in ways that are contrary to the teaching of their denominations. For instance a local Lutheran minister announced he was Gay and a Southern Baptist church hired a woman to be senior pastor. These are just two examples of people exhibiting behavior that is contrary to the teachings of their churches/denominations. Today there are a number of different denominations that believe – well almost anything. So, why do folks intentionally join denominations they disagree with?
Do you think they just inadvertently find themselves in these situations or do you believe they intentionally engineer them to make a statement?
The situation of the female minister, which was covered extensively by the local media, makes me suspicious. After the fact I found out that the church had only a “historic” relationship with the SBC and had long since affiliated with a more liberal Baptist group. So, this situation definitely seemed deceptively designed to make a statement.
So, if you are gay why not join a denomination that openly accepts homosexuals? If women are pursuing roles as senior pastor why not join a denomination that readily accepts them?
This is something that I really do not understand when you consider all the pain and distraction from the gospel that this behavior brings. It is also more difficult to understand when these individuals have genuine alternatives to creating these controversies in front of non-believers.
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/4/2008 7:41:14 PM
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NESS55
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yes and no if you read the Book of Jude it talks about this vary issue of people in the church who should not be there
as far as the issue of women in the church and so on well this is not the thread to talk about it but it is clear in scripture what type of person is supposed to be in the pastorate i think after reading through Jude and Timothy i think one will come to the conclusion that many ministers should not be ministers at all
NESS<><
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Zeph 3:17
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/5/2008 7:53:45 AM
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stolar1962
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This is happening for 2 main reasons. Christians in general are woefully ignorant of what the Bible teaches on this subject and most are too lazy to pick up their Bibles find out.
Secondly, most Christians don't care what the Bible teaches about this area and many other "traditional" doctrines because most churches have become nothing more than social clubs, whose doctrines are developed through a combination of modern society and conforming to a world view which is the antithesis of God's view.
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/5/2008 4:43:29 PM
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NESS55
Posts: 73
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stolar1962
This is happening for 2 main reasons. Christians in general are woefully ignorant of what the Bible teaches on this subject and most are too lazy to pick up their Bibles find out.
Secondly, most Christians don't care what the Bible teaches about this area and many other "traditional" doctrines because most churches have become nothing more than social clubs, whose doctrines are developed through a combination of modern society and conforming to a world view which is the antithesis of God's view.
i happen to agree with you though i may not use such harsh language
but what do you think drives people to spiritualsie away passages of the bible?
NESS<><
_____________________________
Zeph 3:17
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/7/2008 12:25:33 AM
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walterquez
Posts: 1440
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Sounds like an indication, to some degree, where that particular denomination is going, especially if nothing is being done by them.
_____________________________
St. Athanasius the Great
For our Canons and our forms were not given to the Churches at the present day, but were wisely and safely transmitted to us from our forefathers.
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/7/2008 8:39:33 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stolar1962
This is happening for 2 main reasons. Christians in general are woefully ignorant of what the Bible teaches on this subject and most are too lazy to pick up their Bibles find out.
Secondly, most Christians don't care what the Bible teaches about this area and many other "traditional" doctrines because most churches have become nothing more than social clubs, whose doctrines are developed through a combination of modern society and conforming to a world view which is the antithesis of God's view.
I agree that there are many who call themselves Christians who are as you describe, but I think calling them Christians is a streatch.
There are many who claim to be Christian, or who think that they are Christians; that simply are not as evidenced by this passage by Christ;
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Working iniquity would seem to be a deal killer for one who claims to be Christian.
And I feel this is the case with those who claim they were "Christian" then became atheist.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Incompatible Ministers - 12/7/2008 11:29:45 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1131
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quote:
BarryLee: So, why do folks intentionally join denominations they disagree with?
Rebellion: They have no respect for God and His word.
Affirmation: They want to feel good in their sins, and what better way to do that than to get churches to bless their personal views, choices, and lifestyles.
quote:
Do you think they just inadvertently find themselves in these situations or do you believe they intentionally engineer them to make a statement?
The situation of the female minister, which was covered extensively by the local media, makes me suspicious. After the fact I found out that the church had only a “historic” relationship with the SBC and had long since affiliated with a more liberal Baptist group. So, this situation definitely seemed deceptively designed to make a statement.
A person doesn't just accidentally fall into a church they openly disagree with on deep matters, and even if that were to happen, they could just quietly leave and find a church to suit themselves IF they wanted. I do think these cases are engineered to push an agenda, make a statement, and force a change to suit their needs and desires. One person or group doesn't like a rule or a standard set by a church, so they push and push until they get what they want.
One recent case that comes to mind is the election of openly gay Gene Robinson as an Episcopal Bishop. Robinson fully knew and understood the division he was causing and the church standards he was going against ... and he did not care. Robinson's personal goals and agenda is obviously all that matters to him as he continues to force his views and lifestyle into the Episcopal church and create a worldwide schism. Granted, an openly practicing and affirming homosexual should have been disciplined long ago rather than up for election as a bishop and shame on the ECUSA for allowing things to progress this far, but that's probably another thread.
Bottom line is that by not adhering to the standards of whatever church they are attending and knowingly causing disruption and division, the agenda-pushers display their real 'fruit' of absolute selfishness, pride, and rebellion for all to see.
Jn 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.”
Rom 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naïve people.
Tit 3:10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
2 Tim 3:2 People will be lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God – 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
2 Jn 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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