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Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 3:26:02 AM
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NewYork74
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I am an aspiring pro-kickboxer and mixed martial artist. I train hard and I spar with other opponents frequently. I will be scheduled for some pro fights soon. I am not sure how I feel about this? Is it a sin against GOD? I know other fighters who are very religious and they pray before their fights. I dont hate my opponents and I am not trying to maim them or hurt them permanently. It can get pretty rough , broken noses, broken bones and other injuries. I am just trying to measure myself against other men as a warrior in the conrtolled environment of a combat sport. It doesnt feel wrong. What is your take?
I just started reading the Bible a few weeks ago and I am not an expert in it.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 4:13:08 AM
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bford64
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Not having any scripture to back up my thoughts on this I am going to go out on a limb and say no. The reason I would say no is because you are engaging in a fight as a sport. Not as a reaction to uncontrolled anger or for retaliation. There are many christians in various other sports that can become dangerous as well, football, hockey, baketball.
Hope this helps.
God Bless
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 5:00:33 AM
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Kath
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moving from General Faith to Morality/Ethics.
also we have a similar thread you might be interested in here
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 9:15:20 AM
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gengwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bford64
Not having any scripture to back up my thoughts on this I am going to go out on a limb and say no. The reason I would say no is because you are engaging in a fight as a sport. Not as a reaction to uncontrolled anger or for retaliation. There are many christians in various other sports that can become dangerous as well, football, hockey, baketball.
Hope this helps.
God Bless
I agree. Sport fighting rarely includes "returning evil for evil". I would say that if you do find yourself in the throws of a "grudge match", you may want to reexamine the question.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 12:33:37 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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It's a sin. Because I say so.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 12:55:12 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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If it is a sin, then so is football.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 1:23:03 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
If it is a sin, then so is football.
Not true!
Gather my saints together unto me Psalm 50:5
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 2:58:18 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
If it is a sin, then so is football.
Not true!
Gather my saints together unto me Psalm 50:5
Cow, I wasn't saying football was a sin. This was my tongue in cheek way of saying that of course, regulated, sport fighting is not a sin, just because injury COULD occur. It could occur in football, too.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 3:23:23 PM
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NewYork74
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I know there is another post on this, and a lot of the members are displeased with the Las Vegas atmosphere ot the UFC, the half-naked girls and the drunkeness in the crowd. You need to know that there are a lot of other venues besides Vegas. Ive been to Japan and over there, the crowds are very respectfull and there arent that many ring girls. Plus, if you are a fighter, you do not have to engage in the party scene around the sport. You can just go home to your wife or girlfriend.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 7:17:47 PM
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Knolt
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Um yes, it's a sin. A good Christian man doesn't participate in stuff like that! Kidding. Sounds like it's a passion of yours. I think MMA is awesome. I'm a UFC fan and I make sure i see all the major fights. I think MMA is a good outlet. I think it's a good way to reduce violence in one's head too.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 8:47:00 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
If it is a sin, then so is football.
Amein! And basketball, too -- especially!
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 10:35:45 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
If it is a sin, then so is football.
Amein! And basketball, too -- especially!
And let's not even discuss hockey!
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 11:08:37 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Oh! Is hockey a sin???
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 11:24:44 PM
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tombombadil
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It is just a sport, no problem.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/2/2008 11:34:02 PM
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9drtr
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oh! Is hockey a sin???
In some places "hockey" is a mildly crude word for the substance that my father used for a puck while playing pond hockey as a child.
Hockey is a lot like basketball except that people his each other with long sticks. They aren't supposed to, they just do.
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Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 12:24:00 PM
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Kath
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We need to be a bit more serious please. The OP says he just started reading his Bible a few weeks ago so we need to not be so frivolous. Thanks!
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 12:32:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I'm sorry, NewYork, that I treated your question so flippantly. Please forgive me.
I believe that the only sure measure of what is or is not sin is the Bible. I am trying to think if a place in it that says that sport-fighting is a sin and cannot. Paul certainly knew about sport-fighting, and while he mentioned it as an example of life, he did not write that it was sin to participate in it.
Personally, I hate fighting. But my hatred for it does not dictate to G-d that He must decide it is sin.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 2:03:09 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
We need to be a bit more serious please. The OP says he just started reading his Bible a few weeks ago so we need to not be so frivolous. Thanks!
I'm sorry, I honestly missed that last line.
To the OP: Paul, in the New Testament tells us, "To run in such a way as to win the prize," Now, I know, he ultimately meant spiritually, but I also always took that as a way of the Bible showing that there is a time and a place for competitive sport. Then, the Old Testament is full of examples of Godly Warriors and being prepared for battle. I think what you are doing can be a great opportunity to do something for the glory of God, and to practice good sportmanship. You may even be able to use this skill to defend a victim one day. As long as you don't misuse what you are doing, I, personally see no problem with it. Yes, there are some risks, but that is true of every sport. As frilly as figure skating may appear, there is actually quite a potential for injuries in that sport. I just don't seen how anyone could judge against your sport without starting to judge against many other sports as well.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 8:21:59 PM
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NewYork74
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Another fighter emailed me this and Id like to share it with the forum members...
"this is such a simple question that you guys take so out of hand. first of all, a lot of you are confusing christianity with catholicism. christianity is new testament, catholicism is both old and new. why? because catholicism likes to take the values of the new testament with the scare tactics of the old to get people to convert to their religion, because their religion in my honest opinion is a bunch of ********, and i can say this with confidence having grown up in a family whom half were catholics.
now, christianity. whether you believe in god, whether there is god or not is irrelevent. the question is really "does MMA contradict the values of christianity?" the answer is no. why? because there are no such things as specific sins like eating pork or whatever in christianity, there are merely guidelines that you must first consider and you are supposed to make the decision yourself whether it is a sin. do not think "what would jesus do?" because then you must first know how jesus thought and that is impossible because he is supposedly the only infallible human being to ever have existed. the only reasonable place to start would be asking yourself if what you do has anything to do with the 7 deadly sins.
"am i envious? greedy? lazy? filled with rage?" etc. therefore, in christianity, there are many things you can do as long as you have a proper attitude about them. it's very simple. you could be too prideful which is a sin (the worst to have and the easiest to acquire), too greedy with your contract and attempt to swindle a promoter, which would be sinning. you could be gluttonous, that is, have a bunch of fancy material things if you hypothetically rose to the top as a star and indulge yourself in them.
i could go on. the point is, as long as you are a kind, honest and respectful person who doesn't put more value in material things and fame than family and friendships, and you enter bouts mercifully and not intending to kill the opponent i guess, then it's not a sin. in christianity, it's not necessarily what you do that is sinful, but the manner in which you think and act
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 9:52:39 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Your friend has an interesting take on the understanding of believers, whether protestant, Catholic, or other. Let me just write, for the value of clarification, I am "other," and I believe the whole Bible, finding that none of it is irrelevant, none of it is outdated, none of it is truncated by my L-rd, who is the Word, the Author, of the whole book.
I would disagree with your friend, because the Bible never asks us to ask ourselves, "What would Jesus do?" The Bible does not suggest and it does not hope that we will ask, but it demands that we ask, "What DID Jesus do." We look at what He did, and we follow suit.
The idea of the "seven deadly sins" is definitely based upon scripture, but it is merely based upon Scripture. What you really need to concern yourself with is this: do you know the L-rd personally? Are you born again? Since you have already stated that you are, then let the Spirit lead you, and He will not lead you to do anything that is sin, because He will guide you according to the Bible, not by emotions, not by someone else's book, not by cleverly stated ideas.
Your friend is not all wrong by any means. These are simply the things that initially caught my eye.
Sure, I hate fighting, I despise the ring, but I once saw someone in the ring who faught valiantly and fairly, then hugged the oponent with a genuine respect and tenderness after he had won. That is a right attitude.
Did you see the picture of the two young ladies on a baseball team who together carried their oponent around the bases after she had hit a home run then injured herself and could not go around the bases? These showed what true sportsmanship is. You can do the same.
Bless you, NewYork. Bless you.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/3/2008 9:59:23 PM
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SonInMe1
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Its only a sin if you lose.
I think the humor comes from the legalists out there wanting to make everything a sin from...dancing...to playing cards.
Lets get to the meat of this. Even if this sport, or any sport is a sin, its covered by Jesus blood IF you are saved.
IF it is a sin and you are saved then the Holy Spirit will convict you of it. No need for a pastor's opinion or a christian author or us weird internet people. God will convict you of the sin and then, you will repent.
Please, if anything can be said of the gospel it is this...you are free. Don't let men put up the walls Jesus died to break down.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 5/5/2008 5:09:24 PM
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McFatty
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When it comes down to it, some people will cite the 30th proverb when it comes to these situations. The part they will cite reads as follows:
30 Do not contend with a man without cause,
If he has done you no harm.
31 Do not envy a man of violence
And do not choose any of his ways.
This seems to some people to point towards God not wishing sport fighting, or even such activities being sinful. In my view, first of all, that's adding more to the text than is really there. The Proverbs are wisdom, and even if the two verses above were all that existed, I don't remember a part in the Bible where it says you must accept every ounce of wisdom given to you without thinking about it or you are guilty of sin. Second, there is another verse after these which clarifies what the message is, but it doesn't follow the agenda of sport fighting being sinful, so it may be left off.
32 For the devious are an abomination to the LORD;
But He is intimate with the upright.
Here, the proverb is talking about men who plan out violence in order to simply cause trouble. A mixed martial artist is not a devious person. He fights face to face without any tricks. That's far from the devious person contending with a man who has done you no harm.
This is, again, just my view. In the end, you'll have to decide for yourself. So few followers of Christ are willing to step up, pray about things, and find out what the Holy Spirit has to say to them about a subject. It's much easier to listen to others, and when that happens, I guarantee you that you'll find many very vocal people with strong opinions. However, this doesn't help you become convinced on a particular issue on your own. I pray that you'll continue in your Bible study so that you'll become stronger in faith and in your connection with the Holy Spirit. Let God guide you. Whatever you do, do it for the Lord. I'll leave you with this final verse from Romans 14.
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Is fighting a sin? - 6/1/2008 10:34:23 PM
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Timcp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NewYork74
I am an aspiring pro-kickboxer and mixed martial artist. I train hard and I spar with other opponents frequently. I will be scheduled for some pro fights soon. I am not sure how I feel about this? Is it a sin against GOD? I know other fighters who are very religious and they pray before their fights. I dont hate my opponents and I am not trying to maim them or hurt them permanently. It can get pretty rough , broken noses, broken bones and other injuries. I am just trying to measure myself against other men as a warrior in the conrtolled environment of a combat sport. It doesnt feel wrong. What is your take?
I just started reading the Bible a few weeks ago and I am not an expert in it.
Why is it that the only way to make money is to fight full contact? You like to spar, and for self defense that is what you need to do. However, if Fighting is what you want to do, notice there isn't money in sparring? You won't see guys walk into the middle of the Octagon or ring with sparring gear and spar for a title and million dollar money purse. You won't find yourself on SPIKE TV. How many top full contact fighters do you see participate in ADCC? Matt Hughes, Tito Ortiz, and Dan Henderson just to name a few. Yet, you won't see that on SPIKE TV either. Same with Boxing, how come you won't see Olympic style boxing on HBO or SHOWTIME? Because it lacks the violence that can only be found in full contact. Why is it that they often pay the fighters a bonus for a knockout or a submission, as in the reality show for the UFC? That is the problem with MMA, Boxing etc. It glorifies violence. It glorifies the knockout as with Boxing, and it glorifies both the knockout and the submission in the case of MMA.
You may have read other threads where people try to say that condoning, sanctioning etc. takes away the violent aspect.
However, in Matthew Ch. 8 verse 31-32 Describes a heard of swine, and the way they ran down a steep cliff as being violent. You see then that actions can be described as violent.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
At the back of any Boxing or MMA DVD, it says that the content contains Pervasive Violence for a reason.
< Message edited by Timcp -- 6/2/2008 10:51:38 PM >
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