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Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/1/2008 12:01:17 AM
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RefinersMetal
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People often quote Jeremiah 29:11.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
Wasnt this his promise to Israel? Why does it apply to us today? Thanks
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/1/2008 12:55:43 AM
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MrFribbles
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While it may not apply directly, we know that the same is basically true for the Christian. Let's break it down a little bit, section by section.
"For I know the plans I have for you," we know this to be true. On a very basic level, God knows everything, so obviously He knows the plans He has for us as Christians. But more importantly, we learn in Ephesians 2:10 that we are not just saved for the sake us getting us into heaven. God saves us with a purpose - to accomplish good works that will glorify His name and fulfill His purposes on this earth through us.
"plans to prosper you and not to harm you," well, we have to be a little careful with this one. I'm sure many, many prosperity "gospel" people out there are more to happy to take these words and use it to "prove" their views. However, what we have to keep in mind is that God's idea of prosperity and our own are not always the same. I'm sure the apostle Paul would have some interesting things to say to anyone who said that a prosperous Christian was a rich Christian. So, yes, God does have plans to prosper us and not to harm us, but His views of prosperity and safety are much higher than our own. Romans 8:28 tells us that God will work all things out for the good for us as Christians, but that good is ultimately what glorifies Him and accomplishes His will. This will also be the best thing for us - we just may not see it at the time.
"plans to give you hope and a future," obviously, this can be seen as true for all who are in Christ. We have the ultimate hope and future in store for us.
So, I wouldn't say this verse directly applies to the Christian today, but the same promise does. ...Which is really only an important distinction to make as it relates to the "Is the Church the new Israel?" debate.
; )
*edited to make my smiley fit on one line!*
< Message edited by MrFribbles -- 6/1/2008 1:03:20 AM >
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/1/2008 1:23:21 AM
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BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RefinersMetal
People often quote Jeremiah 29:11.
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
Wasnt this his promise to Israel? Why does it apply to us today? Thanks
Actually it was given to the people of Judea (The Southern Kingdom)....Israel (The northern Kingdom) had long since been taken into exile by the Assyrians.
"For thus says the LORD, 'When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. 'For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. 'Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:10-13)
It was a very dark time for the people of Judea, they had been conquered, many of the people had been carnied off into captivity, but God is reassuring His people that, no matter how it seems at the moment, He has not abandoned them, that He will bring about good for them from this.
This promise was made to God's people...that He would bring about good not evil from this...that He did still love them. I know my plans for you...and they (long range) are for good, not evil. As Christians we are also God's people, grafted in to be sure...but still of God's people. As such we can expect the same love and concern that God shows to His people Judea and Israel.
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28)
So that even when things look like God has forsaken and abandoned us we can still know and proclaim that He knows His plans for us...and they are (long range) plans for good, not evil...welfare, not calamity.
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/1/2008 2:08:52 PM
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colliefan
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and this should be our mission;
Jer 29:7 (ESV) 7But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.
We are all in exile while here on Earth. We must seek the welfare of the city where God has planted us.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/2/2008 7:30:27 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
MrFribble:
So, I wouldn't say this verse directly applies to the Christian today, but the same promise does. ...Which is really only an important distinction to make as it relates to the "Is the Church the new Israel?" debate.
This could also be no distinction at all. If all those who follow Yeshua(Jesus) are grafted in, then they are the "old" Israel.
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
and this should be our mission;
Jer 29:7 (ESV) 7But seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the Lord on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.
We are all in exile while here on Earth. We must seek the welfare of the city where God has planted us.
If you are using this verse as our mission, than you must believe we are part of Israel. If so, baruch Ha Shem(blessed is The Name), otherwise please explain how the "old testiment" promises apply to those who believe they have been "fulfulled"?
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/2/2008 10:14:37 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1139
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...please explain how the "old testiment" promises apply to those who believe they have been "fulfulled"?
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ, meaning they find their reality in Him. Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is how the promises are 'fulfilled' (carried out) in a person's life.
"For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20)
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/3/2008 12:48:37 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...please explain how the "old testiment" promises apply to those who believe they have been "fulfulled"?
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ, meaning they find their reality in Him. Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is how the promises are 'fulfilled' (carried out) in a person's life.
"For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20)
Would those promises include both the blessings and the curses?
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 6/3/2008 12:55:16 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/3/2008 1:15:54 PM
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Lapidoth
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...please explain how the "old testiment" promises apply to those who believe they have been "fulfulled"?
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ, meaning they find their reality in Him. Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is how the promises are 'fulfilled' (carried out) in a person's life.
"For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20)
Would those promises include both the blessings and the curses?
I see no other way it reads.
If you do this, "this" happens.
If you do that, "that" happens.
There truly is no such thing as church in the sense we westerners see it.
There is only the "common wealth" of Israel.
Not all Israelites are part of that common wealth.
All those under the blood are under God's common wealth.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/6/2008 2:50:44 PM
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laura...
Posts: 2710
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
It was a very dark time for the people of Judea, they had been conquered, many of the people had been carnied off into captivity, but God is reassuring His people that, no matter how it seems at the moment, He has not abandoned them, that He will bring about good for them from this.
A dark time that God authored. Their captivity was a judgment by God for their falling away.
quote:
So that even when things look like God has forsaken and abandoned us we can still know and proclaim that He knows His plans for us...and they are (long range) plans for good, not evil...welfare, not calamity.
So long range that the generation that received this promise didn't live to see the fulfillment of this promise. In fact, their children's children probably didn't live to see it. It was 70 years from the time the nation entered into captivity until the time of the decree that allowed Israel to return to Judea. It was another 70 years before most of the exiles actually returned.
Jer 29:11 does not promise us as individuals that God is going to bring us health, wealth and good times. It does mean that God's plans are good. We may not see all the good fruit of that promise. It may be our children will see it or our grandchildren will see it or maybe even our greatgrandchildren.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/9/2008 9:27:53 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1139
Joined: 12/9/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...please explain how the "old testiment" promises apply to those who believe they have been "fulfulled"?
All the promises have been fulfilled in Christ, meaning they find their reality in Him. Christ in a person by the Holy Spirit is how the promises are 'fulfilled' (carried out) in a person's life.
"For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. (2 Cor. 1:20)
Would those promises include both the blessings and the curses?
Yes, but those blessings and cursings are to be understood as they would apply to the true nation of God's people--all those born into the kingdom of God by virtue of the Spirit, not natural lineage.
For instance, being sold as slaves and carried away into a foreign nation is an illustration for us of being turned over to the alien taskmaster of sin and serving that taskmaster in a faraway place from God, which is so completely unfitting and strange to the people of God.
If we persist in disobedience as Christians we can expect to follow the same pattern of consequences for disobedience outlined in the law. Each progressive stage of disobedience and rejection of correction brings on another round of increasing punishment. But again, it is to be understood in the context of the new nation of God's people--those born into the nation of God by virtue of the Spirit and not natural lineage.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/10/2008 6:30:08 PM
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Bluethread
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I would not say that the people and their descendants who have been blessed or cursed in the past are releaved of those blessings and curses just because Yeshua(Jesus) has grafted us into the nation of Israel. I would just say that those who have been grafted in partake of Israel's blessings and curses. Israel and his descendant have not been the only ones to receive blessings and curses from Adonai.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Jeremiah 29:11 to us? - 6/10/2008 11:31:49 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1778
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
My wife has liver cancer as well as cancer in other parts of her body at various times. This has been going on for the better part of three years now, heavy chemotherapy for a while then remission and then back under therapy. She has been on the verge of death at least once as we set in the ER and discussed her going to the LORD.
There has been pain but also this has been the most blessed time of our lives. We are closer to each other, much closer to the LORD and have learned to trust completely in His providence. We face each day with new hope and live for and enjoy each day given to us.
My wife’s strength has touched many lives and has given others optimism during times of despair in their lives.
I for one am convinced that Jeremiah 29:11 applies to our lives. God has given us so much and what ever he has planned for our future we will willingly accept. My wife having cancer has not been harmful to either of us…it has been a blessing.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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