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Mother son relationship... - 10/9/2008 9:28:29 AM
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Rebecca1965
Posts: 21
Joined: 9/28/2008
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I am going to copy and paste this from the post I have started in Relationships ... I have gotten great advice and have learned a lot. The thread is My Relationship with my son is not good.
Well where do I begin... it seems like ever since my son turned 13 our relationship has taken a hard turn for the worst... he is going to turn 16 in a couple of days and last week he admitted after a punishment ( taken his phone away) that he thought about killing himself... I could not believe that it was over the phone he commenced to tell me it was all about me.... how embarresed he was of me... and what an awful day he had.. I ask him to tell me about it and in sobs he told me how he woke up late and made his dad late for work ( we are divorced + 12 years) he goes to his dads every Wednesday and every other weekend... anyway he said it made his dad sad and he had to grab a shirt that was too small and got sent to the office for having his shirt tail out .... he is very easily embarressed and that was an awful expience for him ... then they got checked and he had his cell phone which is supposed to be put in a basket at the beginning of each class... so he had to go back to the office to talk to the head master.... and he can not bring his phone back to school for 30 days.... so I told him I would keep his phone ..... I guess he felt like that was too much ... and left ... he came back an hour later with the statement of thinking about killing himself that he has not been happy for 5 years .... I had no idea where this is coming from .... I called the phsycologist that has given him a social anxeity test and told him about the thoughts my son was having ..... I also called his dad .... He said that our son did not act like that around him and he did not see it...
At the time I said something about calling his dad my son begged me not too and said he would not be able to go thru with it anyway...
So what does this mean is it me .... is he tring to make me feel guilty... All I know is that we seem not to be albe to get along and him and his dad do.... And that hurts ... I feel like alot of the issues we have are the expectations I have of him ... like mowing the grass... and cleaning his room and his ferret cage..... You would think I was asking him to cut off his arm..... and he is very rude to me .... I try to ignor it .... and not make a big deal out of it .... he always tries to turn it around on me and I honestly do not know what to do..... As much as it hurts I have talked to him about living with his dad. He doesn't want to ..... I just do not understand
His dad is very manipulating ..... he used to cry and tell him how much he would miss him when we would make the exchange.... I pulled him aside and told him that was so selfish of him.... this was about our son not my exhusbands feeling.... being dumped on our son between visits...... He said he would try to do better.... I havent seen anything like that for a while .... so maybe our son feels torn.....and it comes up more when he does not get his way.... but he does not understand that himself and does not know what to do with it .... He is treated like a king in one situation and less than one in the other.... Although I believe we both spoil him.... being an only child .... but in different ways.
Well I could see that last night could have been a nightmare.... I had to control myself.... it was very very very hard..... My son was at his dads this week... and a friend came over to help get ready for a secret sister fall get together... She had her neice and nephew with her ... he is like 6 and she is like 4. She was asleep when we got there and I put her in my sons room. She woke up and got a box of index cards and brought them to us for her to draw on ... they both stayed in his room to play with the ferret.... When my son got home and saw a index card with a stick man drawn on it he lit into me with everything he had .... Something about promising him not to let children into his room.... I told him I did not ever remember saying that and they did not mess with anything .. He called me a liar.... All I could say to myself was control yourself CONTROL..... I knew if I let him draw me into this it could get ugly .... I just told him I did not remember saying that and walked out.... I came back to put things in his room and told him I was sorry .... That was his room and I should not have let little children in.... In a more calming voice he said just call me and let me know.... It still errks me to no end that he would think I am a liar.... it is like he has had this imaginary conversation with me and it is just crazy.... Believe me when I say it was so hard not to jump on this wagon esp when he called me a liar..... I had to really concentrate on not getting engaged.... But with Gods help I forgave him and tried to see his point of view .... I would not have wanted little children in my room when I was that age either..... but that was a long time ago ... and it took a while to research my brain which wanted to use logic more that feelings about the whole thing..... one arguement difussed...... one thousand to go.....
He turns 16 today ..... he already has his present a ipod touch.... and I left him a card.... I am taking of thursday to take him to get his drivers license.....
So we go to the phycologist and he gives my son a test for anxiety. It shows he has some depression and anxiety. When he make the next appointment he ask that his dad is there so we can both be on the same page. He ask what is his responsibilities at his dads... and with me... His dad says he does everything he expects him to. The Phycologist eventually gets the info out of him he wants.. His dad says he keeps his room clean... and he rode in a bike a thone with him and Bible Drills. Of course the bad parent me... told the phycologist he was to keep his room clean which he hasn't in the last couple of weeks and his ferret cage which I had to give water and food to a couple of days ago cause he was begging for food... he was expected to mow the grass and get paid 20 when it was done that he absolutely would not do...
Some where in between we were to make a triangle my son and me about what was the most important to us from one another. ok I will go first ... top of the list ... Respect... He talks back to me and hits me ...
I want him to honor his mother and father.
I wanted him to have fun not to be so uptight.
I wanted him to be a good person.
"ok his ... list Dont treat me like a kid ... I am not 7 or 21 I know what works best for me. I am not stupid Do not try to manipulate me or bribe me don't lie to me.
Act my age... you are not a kid anymore and man up to it. There has to be a parent in this house if you act like a baby step up to that role.
Be there when I need you I will let you know.
Dont make fun of me.
Don't critizie my way of doing things
Usually I ask if i need help best way to learn is thru trail and error"
" Keep house clean. Realize I don't like all the food u do Try to make us all happy. Stop treating me like a pest: if you dont wnat me here I don't have to come."
I appreciate my son being able to put all this on paper... but he is so far off base it is ridiculus... b/f he wrote this I cooked betty crocker potatoes that he picked out at the store and cube steak ... and beer bread... we had tuna fish which he likes ok ... and fish sticks that he picked out... that has been this whole week.... Some times he is wrapped so tight he seems like he is going to bust and I poke fun to try to lighten the stress.... I have no idea about what he is talking about the critizing ... if I ask him to mow the grass I expect him to do it all in one day.... that is the only thing I can think of ... I just do not know what to say about the be a parent thing.... and as far as not having to come to my house .... well... he is 16 and gosh it would hurt like heck .... but if I am that bad I don't know why he is here....
reply from pbarlbeault
He's not "off base". He was asked to tell what he thinks and feels, so he did. He told what's inside his head. He was not asked to give an accurate account of family life that week. It's about his perceptions. You need to understand that regardless of how you see real life, his feelings are reality to him. It was kind of him to let you know.
'Don't treat me like a kid' is about the voice and words you use when you speak to him.
Try this: Before any sentence, think, "If I had an adult female roommate instead of a son, how would I bring this issue up with her?"
'Do not try to manipulate or bribe me' is about how you try to get stuff done or modify his behaviour. Using rewards and punishments at his age is demeaning to him.
Try this: move into a 'coaching' role where you advise and strongly encourage good behaviour, but you don't pretend you can make him do anything. Definitely don't do more than a one-time simple offer to pay him (if it's appropriate) and all consequences should be closely tied to the wrongdoing. (And any 'wrongdoing' should be a violation of a clear responsibility, not just something that you don't like.)
'Do not lie to me' is about outright lying, shading the truth, as well as promise keeping and general dependability and integrity.
Try this: ask God to make you very sensitive in your heart to the slightest 'dishonesty' that you might commit (even by mistake). Be careful what you say 'OK' to -- because that's your word and it has to be kept. Teens are very sensitive to this kind of thing.
'Act your age' is about being somebody that he can trust to be the adult in a situation.
Try this: evaluate your clothes (that you wear in public) and your public persona. Are you still trying to act like a 'young, fun, available single woman? If so, save this for your own time. When you share public space with him, and in your home, act like a boring grown up parent figure that can be depended on. This also might mean, especially in the home, that you need to keep your emotions either in-check or private from him. He is your son, not your buddy, and having a mom that can break down in tears or fly off the handle is just not a 'safe' home.
'Be there when I need you I will let you know' is about your role as confidante.
Try this: when you notice he is emotional, calmly say, "You seem a bit <emotion>, if it's worth chatting about, I've got time to be a listening ear for you." Then leave the topic, but continue to hang around or pop in on him in case he wants to take you up on the offer.
'Don't make fun of me' is about your gentle poking-fun to unwind his stress.
Try this: Quit it! Try the above "You seem a bit stressed..." sentence instead, or offer a distraction.
'Don't criticize my way of doing things' 'usually I ask if i need help' and 'the best way to learn is thru trial and error' are all about the learning process.
Try this: he clearly prefers trying things his own way and even getting them wrong, rather than listening to instructions or doing something just because that's the way he's been told to do it. This is the great strength of an innovator... so let him do it. Some things will take longer, and occasionally something will get broken, but you can handle that. Let him try his own ways, and you might be surprised. (Not that you can't give occasional warnings, but if you keep them occasional, he is more likely to take you seriously.)
'Keep the house clean' is about the trade-off relationship between parents and kids.
Try this: The best way to teach him responsibility is to do it yourself and have him watch. Besides that, coming home to a clean home feels secure, safe, calm and loving. This is an important act of love and duty that you can do for your son.
'Realize I don't like all the food u do' is easy
Try this: Say, "I realize you don't like this meal, but I do, and that's the way it works when 2 people live together. Other times I make stuff I don't like so that you can have something you enjoy a lot. It's just taking turns."
'Try to make us all happy' is the only unreasonable thing on the list.
Try this: it might help if you were more open in showing empathy (a sense of feeling-alongside people who feel badly) and interest (asking things like 'How would you feel if..." and "How do you feel about...") in others happiness.
'Stop treating me like a pest' is about your face, tone of voice and attitude.
Try this: everyone knows it's not easy to live with a teen, but try not to let him know that. Find some friends to vent to, but otherwise try to focus on how delightful it is to see him stretching into an adult and how proud you are to see what kinds of things he is accomplishing through his development.
This is very insightful...
The act my age thing is the only thing I can't see.... it is not about dress. It is more about me being friendly to everyone... at the grocery store if I stop to speak to someone ( a female friend) and we get to laughing he assumes I am acting like a child... he will grab my arm in the middle of the conversation and pull me away rudely and say be quite and come on... He has taken things out of my buggy and put them back on the shelf b/c they were not on the list... we are not wealthy but not in poverty either.... but his dad is very conservative... and is a strong influence on him for that .... except for things he wants ... then it is ok...
We went to the fair the other night and I stopped to fill out a drawing for a canoe.... He got so mad and said he was leaving .... and walked off ... He found me 15-20 min later ..and said what stupid thing did I buy... I told him I did not buy anything and he said he was ready to go.... I thought to myself that the only stupid thing I bought was a ticket for him to get in...
In the above statement it is hard not to treat him like a pest.... So hard ... I do love him but this is most likely why he does not have any friends....
At a football game I will bring my crocheting and he will tell me that is not appropriate... or if I don't bring something else I may get into the game and cheer with the crowd.... He tells me to stop... I would leave him there but ... it is a 30 mile ride to town and home so 60 miles just for him to go to a ball game that if I don't stay with him he doesn't want to go...
The other night he raised his hand and hit me... b/c he dropped his chopped steak on the floor and I was picking up to give it to the dog... He hit me and said the dogs aren't going to get table scraps... I looked at him and said Do Not Hit me.... looked him in the eye and continued... That really frightened me .... He did not hit me hard but just the fact that he would startled me...
reply from Laraua
He's right. You need to act like the parent. Of course, he's not going to like you doing so. But, right now he is parenting you. Put a stop to it. Do not tolerate him grabbing your arm, raising a hand to you, hitting you no matter how lightly, correcting you, etc. He is out of control because you have not set any personal boundaries with him. If you don't stop this now he will only escalate his behavior. This is all about control...who has it. It's certainly not you, the parent.
ok ... How do I not tolerate it? Without him becoming more depressed ... what if he does kill himself ... how will that make me feel? I feel torn between putting my foot down and not trying to push the wrong buttons... .... And my persona.... I am 43 years old. I don't have a button to push and say from now own I am magically not going to be myself.... wa la.... (please to not think I am being disrepectful)
... So where is the balance .... do you have any advice that is more specific...
These are some of the things I will talk to the phycologist with ... and welcome any other advice to help me resolve as much as possible.
Well and the lying thing...he just makes stuff up.... Things that he says I have said .... Like we had some kids over with a friend and they went in his room to see the ferret I checked to make sure everything was ok ... and nothing they could get into that was personal.... I gave on of the little girls a index card to draw on at the table in the kitchen .... and she left it in his room... that was the only thing that gave it away that there were kids in his room... He said I had told him I would never let kids in his room I told him I did not make such a promise and he called me a liar... I told him I did not lie to him.... but that I should have considered his feeling and not let kids in his room without him knowing ... I would have felt the same way when I was younger... and that I was sorry. That was that until he listed is 3 important things and this was part of lying and letting kids in his room with out his permission... ok so I was sorry for letting kids in his room ... but I never lied to him.... or try to hide it... the point about him even knowing due to the stick person on an index card is how silly it was ... but that I should have considered his feeling it never crossed my mind to tell him about it until he showed me the index card ....
reply from pbarlbeault
Your son is in need of some professional intervention. As his mom, the best thing you can do is (1) make sure he gets it (2) see that you understand it well enough to support the changes that he & the psychologist are trying to make (3) make sure that the psychologist has enough information about these situations that he can help effectively.
His attitude towards you is completely inappropriate... but if he becomes less angry, judgmental and impatient, that might improve.
Towards that end, you should put all your effort into setting a good example in those areas. This gives you the "moral high ground" that leaves him feeling like you are calm and mature, and his emotions are running his life. This might give him incentive to change, as well as it would increase his respect for you as a person.
So, especially refrain from anger, physical aggression, judgmental comments, name calling and impatience.
Also, try to de-stress his life...
Grocery shop alone. Consider it your job to manage the budget, make the list, purchase and prepare food. Do not involve him in this volatile process. He should not be made aware of your financial situation, nor should he have a say-so in what you choose to buy. (Also, if you shop alone, and you run into a friend, you can chat without wasting his time... the time you were already wasting by having him come shopping with you.)
If the situation happens again, you might consider being courteous enough to ask him if he minds waiting while you chat, or perhaps you could make a date to see your friend shortly. However, if he does become impatient and begins grabbing and insulting you, you need to put your foot down. "I understand that you are feeling impatient, but that arm belongs to me, and I can waste my time if I want to. If you need to find something else to do, please feel free. I expect to take another 5 minutes with this conversation."
The canoe draw at the fair also sounds like impatience is at the heart of it. If you intend to do fun things like filling out draw forms, don't expect your son to wait around like a shadow. It's not his thing. It would have been better to part ways in a friendly manner much earlier in the day, and meet up again for things you both enjoy, after having enjoyed your individual things. BUT, in the case that he spoke to you in such a nasty way, you can't stand for that. Face him calmly and say, "That question is an insult and I will not tolerate it. Your insults hurt and upset me, and you owe me an apology." Then you figure out a real consiquence, such as, "If you choose not to apologize, be aware that an apology is worth $20, which I will be deducting from your allowance next week."
On the other hand, your football game situation tells me that you either have very little self control, or you just don't think it is worth controlling your behaviour at the game for his sake. It's really quite easy to choose not to crochet, and also to choose not to cheer with ostentatious enthusiasm. Keep a grip on yourself if you want to show your love and support to your son. (Is he a player or a spectator? Does he really want to go? Does he really want you to go? Why is it important that you be there?)
But the last is most significant.
NOBODY HITS YOU.
He does not make household rules (about what the dogs eat) and he does not enforce them, either with words or hands. This incident is critical, yet it sounds like you only spoke to him about it in the moment. Other than that, you should have made it very clear through real consequences. If it's only been a day or two you still might be able to make this stick. (If not, consider these ideas for future infractions.)
"Son, the other day you made a really stupid decision. You decided to hit me because you were angry about the steak and the dogs. I refuse to share a home with anybody who thinks that kind of thing is OK. You are not my husband, and you are not the man of this house. Even if you were, I would not choose to live with an abusive husband. And I will not raise you to think abuse is OK. How are you going to show me that you know that hitting other people is wrong?"
An apology is not enough. He needs to make amends in some physical, practical way, plus he needs to prove that he understands what abuse is and what it does to people. This adds up to something like an internet research project on abuse, plus some extra chores, and a written letter of apology with a pledge to find other ways to express his anger, and a plan to find other ways to express his anger, with real steps taken along that plan.
The shopping alone was difficult until recently when he started driving.. This will be easier to accomplish from now on... and the part about having a lack of self control is something I have not thought about....
These are some things I can try to address....(remember no magic wands) The results in my trying to take control have resulted in him argueing with me and recently threating to kill himself...
Some recent insight that I can gather from the differences of realtionships is that in his dads world my son is everything... In my world he shares me with everyone and this seems to be the beginning of some of the additues... Like the cooking thing I thought I heard him say something about my husband ... and cooking for him ... but it was something we all liked....Sunday at church we passed a baby down the pew to his mother ... and he stoped to play with my necklace .. we were in the choir... everyone played with him for a few minutes before passing the baby to his mother .... later that afternoon he mentioned " why do you like babies so much?" ... I just do.... most women like babies... that is all I said .... so ...there are a few other things that when I have not been at his disposal he has made comments ... that leads me to believe he wants my undivided attention at all times.... but when I am there he wants me to go away... ...
I do like your idea about the hitting.. thing... This is something that like I said was unexpected... and with the recent threat to kill him self I did not know how to handle it...
_____________________________
Open my eyes to see the miracles in your teachings.
Psalms 119:18
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RE: Mother son relationship... - 10/9/2008 9:33:04 AM
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manda59
Posts: 5993
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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Rebecca, unless you have asked Admin's permission, you are likely to have one of these threads closed, as it is against TOS to post duplicate threads. So, if you have not done so already, I suggest you ask the Admins about this.
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Mother son relationship... - 10/9/2008 1:40:01 PM
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Rebecca1965
Posts: 21
Joined: 9/28/2008
Status: offline
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manda59
thanks for the info I just emailed the admin... I am not sure how to close the thread... but I will wait for the reply.... I had some issues with having the information in two differnt threads in the same forum... b/c I did not understand.... I am learning as I go...
thanks again.
_____________________________
Open my eyes to see the miracles in your teachings.
Psalms 119:18
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