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My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 3:29:35 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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My ex died last Thursday.
He was a horrible father to my oldest 2 kids. He bashed Jesus to my kids that tried to witness to him before he was going (we had about a 2 week notice). But these kids tried for about 6 years to help him find our Lord.
To no avail.
I KNOW both of them went DEEP regarding Theology. MY son is more patient. I think he got my ex's attention most. But who knows?
Just last month he said to dd; "Kate, you remind me of your mother!"
(she knew to duck)
Dd: "Oh, thats sweet Dad. Thank you!"
Ex: "I meant that as an INSULT!"
Dd: "I know, but I take it as a compliment!"
My son (23) was assigned to "pull the plug" legally (even tho many other family were capable of decision.)
So,
He was alive and abusive one day and gone the next.
My 2 kids I KNOW witnessed to him. But he always argued.
And never believed in Him.
At the last moments/days my ex asked to speak to the hospital clergy.
(He was an Atheist)
And then, after 2 weeks, he died in a coma when his heart failed.
(Cancer and advanced cirrhosis)
My sons signature prevented his defibrilation. (what a LOAD to put on a 23 yo!)
Could he be in heaven? He showed ZERO repentance even on his death bed.
He abused these kids even on his deathbed.
Is it that easy for such a hateful person that knows their time is up and the clock just stopped?
It's not fair then.
He left me and our kids with even MORE forgivness due towards him right now. This very minute.
I know my kids are struggling with forgiving him. I know they know they need to/must forgive him.
But he never, not ever, repented.
Not ever.
Or not to us anyway.
So I guess we need more prayer than he ever did, huh??
Mel.
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/16/2008 3:42:11 AM >
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 3:54:54 AM
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Doghouse
Posts: 739
Joined: 8/25/2007
Status: offline
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Nobody on earth can give you this answer. Only God knows for sure. We are not equipped with the capability to know someone's heart, especially at the moment of death.
The hope and prayer is that somewhere, somehow, at the last minute, God found a way to rescue what appeared to be a heart coupled to a mind with a will set on self-destruction. That is the theme I read in your story. There may have been genuine internal struggle that did not manage to manifest itself on the surface.
So - pray that it was God's will to find and rescue the heart of your ex. It sounds like you and your children did all that could be done, and surely God is pleased with your efforts, if nothing else. I believe also that it is important to forgive the trespasses described in your story. I believe that including this thought of forgiveness in prayers regarding the disposition of the soul of this man and genuinely letting go any transgression or hurt caused is important and meaningful in the situation. Anyone familiar wih my posts is going to understand my personal stance on forgiveness of those who have passed on and can no longer do anything about the state of any iniquities or sin.
< Message edited by Doghouse -- 4/16/2008 4:03:39 AM >
_____________________________
John 14 - "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves...whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father."
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 4:05:37 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2290
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
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Your post makes me cry. Don't worry about your ex. I know it's hard to get over being hurt like that. We had a similar situation with my father. I don't think he became a Christian, but my half-sister had a cross put on his tombstone. I know that whenever people witnessed to him, he rejected Christ. I think my sister couldn't bear to think that he went to hell. She never explained to me how he became a Christian during the last minutes of his life. Why didn't she give us any details?
Well, I don't doubt that there can be deathbed conversions. I hope some people who are dear to me will be in heaven even if I have doubts about it.
I'm sorry no one can really answer your question.
1 Samuel 16
7But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 4:34:14 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Doghouse,
Your post was very helpful. Thank you for that.
Even tho I wanted to know my ex's heart, and our son wanted to as well....we believe as you have explained.
WE trust in the fact that it was the TRUE fear of death that made him "sit upright". Thats what he did, actually.
It caused my dd to relax (very stressed young girl).
I think it was at this time he sought the hospital chaplin. And then just a handful of days he was gone.
I am just alarmed at the hatred that was poured out as usual and then "sudden regret".
He knew he had cancer for 5 years. Then he hit the bottle and made it all FFWD. He became extremely mean to dd the last months, but respectful to son. Until the end.
Well anyway...
My list of aches won't make things better....
I did forgive my ex for the things he did to me, personally.
I just have trouble forgiving him of the things he did to our kids.
Especially the latest things.
These are things which cause me to doubt my faith and forgivness of my ex.
(a dark part of me is very glad he is gone. Because he can't lie to them, let them down, hurt them,
abandon them, ignore them)
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 4:41:46 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Ephesians,
Thanks for your reply.
I find your understanding of our situation very helpful.
Thank you for this!
Mel
< Message edited by Melitac -- 4/16/2008 4:47:55 AM >
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 4:44:25 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Dog,
Thank you for your understanding.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 11:26:29 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3305
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Well we never know. Why do you think he wanted to talk to the Clergy? Can you talk to them, and see? Is there any way? I am sorry for all of you.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 11:59:48 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 399
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: online
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Dear Mel,
My prayers go out to you and your children this day. Surely in the days, weeks, and months to come you and your children will be faced with a myriad of feelings regarding this man who brought so much pain into your lives. How you respond to feelings of anger, resentment, guilt, unforgiveness and the like will be of utmost importance to your spiritual growth. However, this is an opportunity to take your grief and suffering to our Lord Jesus for healing and strength. Join your sufferings to our Lord's who is able to empathize more than any other for he suffered and was tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Heavendweller
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 1:18:28 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3305
Joined: 4/11/2005
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yes, what you said Heaven is so true.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavendweller
Dear Mel,
My prayers go out to you and your children this day. Surely in the days, weeks, and months to come you and your children will be faced with a myriad of feelings regarding this man who brought so much pain into your lives. How you respond to feelings of anger, resentment, guilt, unforgiveness and the like will be of utmost importance to your spiritual growth. However, this is an opportunity to take your grief and suffering to our Lord Jesus for healing and strength. Join your sufferings to our Lord's who is able to empathize more than any other for he suffered and was tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Heavendweller
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/16/2008 7:07:17 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 577
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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The way I understand situations like yours and all of life is that God loves each and every one of us and desires that none of us should be lost. He will do everything possible to bring people home--including the worst people imaginable and the ordinary person who for what ever reason doesn't know Jesus. I have family members who are kind, decent people and they don't know Jesus. It doesn't matter what a person has done, how good or bad, each person is dearly loved by God. I don't know if your ex is saved, but rest in knowing God didn't give up on him or hold out on him because of what he did to you or your kids.
Have you considered getting some help for you and your children? It sounds like it's been a real strain on you and your kids--the pain and suffering you've gone through. Leave your ex to God and go where God leads you and your kids.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/17/2008 1:50:39 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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Thank you all. Your posts have been very helpful.
kmangel,
Your post makes alot of sense. I will seriously consider us getting some counseling.
Again, thank you all for your prayers, concern and wisdom.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/17/2008 2:11:07 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
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what you and your kids have to process is VERY VERY difficult. it would be so helpful if you could find a christian counselor that was famliar with exactly the kind of experiences you and your kids had to deal with. there are people that really get it. get what you went through and why it's so hard to process. people that can walk you through the process.
i pray that you find just the help and support and encouragment that you need.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/19/2008 1:07:43 AM
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Lurker
Posts: 746
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Silver Spring, MD
Status: offline
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My sorrow for your family's loss.
As far as the salvation of your husband goes, I'll echo Doghouse in that we cannot know for sure. But we can always pray to God for mercy on his soul.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/19/2008 4:24:11 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
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But is it ever ok to be glad someone like this is dead???
Right now I am feeling pretty ugly because I am very glad he is dead.
I am glad that my kids won't have to cry over him anymore, about the fact that he won't "listen".
They won't have to argue with him about creation anymore (he was an evolutionist).
I find it very sad that this man missed out on how GOOD it feels to FEEL GOD.
On how GOOD it feels to be entranced by His creations....
This awful man was a very evil force in my life and in my kids lives.
I pray, and I ask for prayer that the Lord moves in me and my children so that we may be His and do His will while we are here.
Please pray for us in this.
Just please pray for us.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/19/2008 5:06:37 AM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1190
Status: offline
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what you're feeling is very normal. you can't stay in that place but it's normal. it's a process away from this. please don't try it alone.
you and your kids did a good job, sharing faithfully with the man that hurt you. He's in God's hands. you no longer have a role to play. it's time to heal.
bless you.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/19/2008 10:48:56 AM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 399
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: online
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Perhaps Mel, you and your children are mourning the loss for what never was. Is that possible? I encourage you with our brother Paul when he said, "One thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
In referring to this scripture, I do not suggest that you shouldn't or won't ever deal with the pain from this loss. But rather, that you have the opportunity to be changed into His likeness, as through this process you deal with this tragedy through His eyes. We are partakers of His divine nature and as you seek comfort and transformation from our Lord, He will live His life through you. In so doing, you will have the spiritual guidance, strength, and sight to live with respect to this loss as He wants you to.
In our Lord's love and mercy,
Heavendweller
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/20/2008 3:39:19 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 28
Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Melitac
My ex died last Thursday.
He was a horrible father to my oldest 2 kids. He bashed Jesus to my kids that tried to witness to him before he was going (we had about a 2 week notice). But these kids tried for about 6 years to help him find our Lord.
To no avail.
I KNOW both of them went DEEP regarding Theology. MY son is more patient. I think he got my ex's attention most. But who knows?
Just last month he said to dd; "Kate, you remind me of your mother!"
(she knew to duck)
Dd: "Oh, thats sweet Dad. Thank you!"
Ex: "I meant that as an INSULT!"
Dd: "I know, but I take it as a compliment!"
My son (23) was assigned to "pull the plug" legally (even tho many other family were capable of decision.)
So,
He was alive and abusive one day and gone the next.
My 2 kids I KNOW witnessed to him. But he always argued.
And never believed in Him.
At the last moments/days my ex asked to speak to the hospital clergy.
(He was an Atheist)
And then, after 2 weeks, he died in a coma when his heart failed.
(Cancer and advanced cirrhosis)
My sons signature prevented his defibrilation. (what a LOAD to put on a 23 yo!)
Could he be in heaven? He showed ZERO repentance even on his death bed.
He abused these kids even on his deathbed.
Is it that easy for such a hateful person that knows their time is up and the clock just stopped?
It's not fair then.
He left me and our kids with even MORE forgivness due towards him right now. This very minute.
I know my kids are struggling with forgiving him. I know they know they need to/must forgive him.
But he never, not ever, repented.
Not ever.
Or not to us anyway.
So I guess we need more prayer than he ever did, huh??
Mel.
It sounds to me like he's not saved. Paul tells us in Romans 9 and 10: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God Hath raised Him from the dead thou shalt be saved, for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the Mouth confession is made unto Salvation."
If he refuses to confess with his mouth, then that means he didn't believe in his heart either.
Did your ex confess Jesus as his Lord and Saviour? Sounds to me like he didn't, therefore he is not saved, therefore he went to hell, not heaven. Some people thinks it's presumtious and/or judgmental to propose to know whether somebody is going to hell or not. But the scripture itself is very clear about this and that's what we have to go by.
IJohn 4:2-3: "Hereby know ye the spirit of God; Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God. And this is that spirit of Antichrist, whereof ye heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
If somebody refuses to confess Jesus as their Lord and Saviour then they are not of God, which means they are not going to go to heaven. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am going to heaven because I believe in and have recieved Jesus as my Lord and Saviour. By the same token, you can know if somebody is going to hell by their rejection of Jesus and by their refusal to confess Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.
And Jesus Himself said of those who rejected Him. " It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gamorrah at the day of Judgement than for you."
God's loves everybody, and Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. He would rather have everybody be saved and go to heaven: IIPeter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence."
So, just because Jesus is forgiving and died for the sins of the whole world, doesn't mean everybody in the whole world is automatically forgiven and saved and bound for Heaven. There is that one small catch to being saved. You do have to repent of your sins and accept Jesus as the only begotten Son of God and recieve Him and confess Him as your Lord and Saviour.
But as far as the question of whether or not you and your children should have a forgiving attitude toward your ex, the answer is yes you should. Even though he might not recieve forgivness for his sins from God, because he refuses to repent and accept Jesus, we are still required by the Lord to forgive them and have a forgiving attitude toward all people, even those who are abusive, mean and who persecute us. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you and do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you."
We're all sinners and deserving of punishment in hell. The fact that you and your children are nicer and sweeter than he was does not make you more righteous and better than him. But that is the attitude that you will carry if you are unforgiving. We all need forgivness for our sins. The only thing that makes any of us righteous is Jesus washing away our sins. That's why Jesus said, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, niether will your Father frogive your trespasses."
< Message edited by eschatologist -- 4/20/2008 3:47:14 PM >
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/20/2008 3:40:24 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 399
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: online
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Dear Mel,
This is just a note to let you know I lifted you and your children in prayer today. God's many blessings upon your household.
In Jesus' Name,
Heavendweller
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/20/2008 11:39:11 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 4920
Status: offline
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Mel,
I have no answers or advice to offer, just came over here to post that I continue lifting you and your children in prayer.
May you all feel His touch.
_____________________________
Sam
Though the sound overpowers, sing again, with your dear voice revealing a tone
Of some world far from ours, where music and moonlight and feeling are one
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RE: My ex died, was he saved? - 4/21/2008 5:41:17 AM
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Melitac
Posts: 156
Joined: 2/9/2008
Status: offline
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It has been a very deep day.
This song by Norah Jones defines my feelings today. (I AM keeping in prayer, though...)
NORAH JONES LYRICS
"Wake Me Up"
"Wake me up when it's over,
Wake me up when it's done,
When he's gone away and taken everything,
Wake me up.
Wake me up when the skies are clearing,
When the water is still,
'cause I will not watch the ships sail away so,
Please say you will.
If it were any other day,
This wouldn't get the best of me.
But today I'm not so strong,
So lay me down with a sad song,
And when it stops then you know I've been,
Gone too long.
But don't shake me awake,
Don't bend me or I will break,
Come find me somewhere between my dreams,
With the sun on my face.
I will still feel it later on,
But for now I'd rather be asleep."
Mel~
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