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[Poll]
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Nature of Hell
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| Hell is a place of eternal unspeakable pain and suffering. |
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| Hell is simply a place without God. |
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| Neither (explain) |
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Total Votes : 38
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(last vote on : 10/4/2008 8:06:17 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Nature of Hell - 9/25/2008 8:54:15 PM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
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Is Hell a place of eternal unspeakable pain and suffering analogous to being perpetually burned alive or worse?
Or is Hell simply a place without God.
Bonus question for those who chose 1.
Why would a just and loving God punish people so horribly simply because circumstances or place of birth led them to a different belief then yours?
I know this has been asked 1000 times before but I have never heard a satisfactory answer. This question baffles me more then any other about the nature of evangelical Christian belief. It's as if for me to believe as you I would have to love a God who condemned my beloved mother and father to eternal, unspeakable suffering simple because they happen to choose a life of science.
< Message edited by KaseyTom -- 9/25/2008 9:18:56 PM >
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/25/2008 9:54:23 PM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3767
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: online
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KaseyTom, your voting system doesn't seem to work.
As for your parents, We don't know for sure. Even if they lived a live believing only in science, we don't know what happened at the time of they're deaths. Hours, minutes, even moments before they're death, they could have talked to the Lord, but been unable to let the people around them know that they had. The Lord does call some at the 11th hour. God bless KaseyTom
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/25/2008 10:34:00 PM
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Robert_G
Posts: 174
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
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The answer is simple.
God is just giving unbelievers what they want in the first place:
A place where there is NO God.
What unbelievers don't understand that if you reject God, not only do you dwell eternally without God, but you also dwell without all the Goodness that comes along with God.
Ie....No water, no air, no food, no peace, no rest, no health, NO NOTHING.
EVERYTHING that is good comes from God.
If you make the free will choice to be seperated from God, then God will grant your wish, but all his goodness and blessings disapear with it.
Its a very simple-to-understand reality.
_____________________________
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/25/2008 10:34:52 PM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
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Thanks - seems to be working now.
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/25/2008 11:51:00 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1640
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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Can I answer somewhere between A and B? I believe there will be punishment in Hell, but I don't believe it will be flush across the board for everyone. I believe there will be degrees of reward in Heaven, and I believe there will be degrees of punishment in Hell.
To answer your question, I believe that if someone would potentially believe in Christ, then Christ will reveal Himself to that person, no matter what the circumstances they are born into.
To comment on your parents, did they ever hear the gospel message of Christ?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 12:05:12 AM
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Robert_G
Posts: 174
Joined: 1/8/2006
From: British Columbia, Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
I believe there will be punishment in Hell, but I don't believe it will be flush across the board for everyone. I believe there will be degrees of reward in Heaven, and I believe there will be degrees of punishment in Hell.
Whether you believe in rewards or not, or different degrees of punishment in hell or not....the fact is...there is substantial scripture support to back up both points.
_____________________________
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 12:24:21 AM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
To comment on your parents, did they ever hear the gospel message of Christ?
Both were raised by Catholic families in the usual Catholic tradition. My father never had even the slightest interest in religion or anything spiritual. His interest was scientific research in the area of neurobiology and later he was a pioneer in early computers. My father had zero interest in talking about religion but if pressed would admit he believed all religion to be nonsense.
My mother was a pathologist who made a rudimentary attempt in raising us in the Catholic tradition but lost interest by the time we were teens. Religion played no role in the last 40 years of her life.
Both were wonderful, loving parents who also made significant contributions to society.
Their religious beliefs were a product of the wiring of their brains and the circumstances and experiences of their lives, not black and white moral choices. My father was no more capable of believing in the divinity of Christ than the divinity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That was his innate nature, and if God is as you describe, then God made him that way.
< Message edited by KaseyTom -- 9/26/2008 12:31:46 AM >
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 9:18:20 AM
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steve7150
Posts: 215
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The only legitimate description of hell is the lake of fire starting in Rev 20 at least IMHO.
Gehenna and Hades are not really hell and if you actually follow the sequence of what happens after folks are in the LOF it never says what people assume it says. God may have a different purpose in mind then tormenting folks forever.
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 9:50:10 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3767
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: online
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All we know about the lake of fire is what the Bible tells us. As steve7150 points out, we don't know everything. I think my understanding of hell is a little different than most. God's word says it will burn forever so we know it will. It also says, that it will be a place of torment. It says that satan and his his angels will be tormented forever there. It also says that those who deny Christ will be cast into the lake of fire. But man did not eat of the tree of life, and only those who are redeemed by Christ will be given of this tree to eat. So, I'm not so sure that the people who are cast into the lake of fire will be tormented forever, as satan and his angels will be. I don't have all the answers, only God does. But He is a just and loving God. Whatever His plans are, they are right and good.
About your parents, we don't know that the Lord Jesus Christ didn't reveil himself to them before they died in some way, as they know they were faceing death. Maybe even after they're last breath, but before they're souls left they're bodys. I hope you will put your trust in the Lord, and that one day you will be in His kingdom. And that when you are, that you will be able to see your parents there also.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 10:57:59 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1640
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
My father was no more capable of believing in the divinity of Christ than the divinity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I disagree, and I feel that you have a very odd view of the possibility of change. Do you really think that one's beliefs are inherent from birth, can cannot change throughout any circumstance of life?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 12:38:53 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1497
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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NATURE OF HELL
This is a very interesting idea. Frankly, I don't think that there is much nature in Hell to begin with. Any rivers in Hell would be dried up due to all the heat, and even if they did exist (say, like the River Styx... or Rio Styxo as I've heard it called), they probably wouldn't have any fish in them, unless they'd been boiled alive like cod at a 5-star restaraunt.
Vegetatian in Hell wouldn't be very good, either. Lots of fire means lots of forest fires. Not much in the way of grass or trees. Maybe some burned up stumps here and there, but its going to be pretty desolate. You might get some sage brush or quack grass. Maybe some cacti, but that's about it.
The landscape is probably a lot of rocks. Very dry. I think that the annual rainfall would be less than 1 inch per millenium. I think there are probably a lot of very unique rock structures, and this might provide for some interesting sight-seeing (if you can handle the heat, that is, which I doubt you can).
Animals in Hell? Just mosquitos and cockroaches (because they can survive anywhere as New Jersey has proven). Any other animals in Hell have been pre-cooked. So if there are any animals in hell, they're running around ready to eat. For this reason, I expect that Hell probably smells pretty good, if nothing else. Imagine a chicken walking past you after sitting all afternoon over an open-pit fire? Granted, you'll be suffering a lot so eating it might be the last thing on your mind, but still....
So, essentially, to sum things up, the nature in Hell is a lot like western North Dakota. Just a little less vegetation.
Why's everyone looking at me so weird?
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 9/26/2008 1:38:56 PM >
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 1:32:11 PM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
My father was no more capable of believing in the divinity of Christ than the divinity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I disagree, and I feel that you have a very odd view of the possibility of change. Do you really think that one's beliefs are inherent from birth, can cannot change throughout any circumstance of life?
I do not believe that people can't change. Each year thousands of Christians convert to Islam, but what are the chances that YOU will convert to Islam? About the same as my father becoming religious.
I believe the odds of someone born in Kansas accepting Christ is about 2 in 3, but that odds of someone born in Pakistan accepting Christ is about 1 in 180 and someone born in SW Pakistan less than 1 in 100,000.
I believe someone born with the kind of mind that that will lead them to do great things in the natural sciences are much less likely to accept Christ then the general population. This is born out by studies:
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/news/file002.html
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 2:20:42 PM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3767
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: online
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quote:
Original: KaseyTom
I believe someone born with the kind of mind that that will lead them to do great things in the natural sciences are much less likely to accept Christ then the general population. This is born out by studies:
Here's the thing KaseyTom. You think it (believe it), but God knows. He has all the answers.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 2:28:45 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
Is Hell a place of eternal unspeakable pain and suffering analogous to being perpetually burned alive or worse?
Or is Hell simply a place without God..
Well shucks, both options seem the same to me.
Before I was a child of God, I was in unspeakable pain, shame, gult and suffering; after I accepted Jesus I was set free; and no way am I ever going to run the risk of that pain and suffering again.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 2:49:22 PM
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gr8tful1
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/15/2008
Status: offline
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KaseyTom
The chance that I will convert to Islam....very slim to nil because I have made a choice to put my faith in Christ. And I will have to live the consequences of my choices in life. Something I recognize and accept.
It's true, circumstances may make it more difficult for a person to make a choice for Christ. However in most situations not impossible. I have heard a testimony from a Muslim extremist who put his faith in Christ because Christ appeared to him in his dreams. He would have killed a person who would have tried to evangelize him. God must have recognized this and reached him where he could be reached.
God is just and loving and desires that all should come into His saving grace. He doesn't want anyone to perish in hell. He's given His creation the opportunity to make choices and one choice He has given us is the choice to put our faith in Christ or to make the choice to reject Him.
I don't know where your parents are spending eternity. But if it is hell it is not because God grabbed them and said "this one I want to send to hell". Their current situation whatever it may be, is the consequence of their choice. I pray they made a choice to put their faith in Christ before death. I pray you do as well if you have not already.
Now before you ask about souls who are mentally challenged or aborted, or die as infants etc. Let me say again that God is a just and loving God. Omniscient He knows all circumstances and I trust that He has a plan for these very situations.
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/26/2008 2:58:06 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1640
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
I believe the odds of someone born in Kansas accepting Christ is about 2 in 3, but that odds of someone born in Pakistan accepting Christ is about 1 in 180 and someone born in SW Pakistan less than 1 in 100,000.
You seem to leave belief up to chance - which I disagree with. Now, if you were to say the chances of someone hearing about a certain belief, then right on, it is, to some degree, up to chance. But people will believe what they are led to believe. There is an epidemic in the Church today of young people fresh out of high school leaving the faith and moving to something else. This happens because their faith isn't real - they grew up with it, but it never made a connection in their hearts.
As I said on another thread, belief is not mental agreement (though that is part of it), but a direction in one's passions. Thus a change in belief does not come through additional knowledge (though again, that can help), but through a shifting of those passions.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 12:18:51 AM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
Status: offline
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I'm sorry, but the concept of a just and loving God condemning 3/4ths of the worlds population to an eternity of unspeakable suffering simply because they had the wrong religious beliefs is beyond comprehension to me.
< Message edited by KaseyTom -- 9/28/2008 12:25:43 AM >
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 12:35:59 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7840
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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Interestingly, I think a place without God would be a place of unspeakable pain and suffering - so I am not sure I see how the choices might differ.
quote:
I'm sorry, but the concept of a just and loving God condemning 3/4ths of the worlds population to an eternity of unspeakable suffering simply because they had the wrong religious beliefs is beyond comprehension to me.
God doesn't send people to hell because of 'wrong religious beliefs', they go to hell for being wicked, and doing evil, and because there is no other place for such people to be.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 12:51:32 AM
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wheelinpeace
Posts: 2
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline
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hello, new to the board. love what I've seen so far. ( Just a lil FYI.)
To me.....God doesn't send "us" to hell. We send "ourselves" to hell.
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 1:33:12 AM
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MAP2010
Posts: 53
Joined: 9/11/2008
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Hi,
Well I added a list of the meanings so people could get an Idea of what they mean. You have (1) she'ôl she'ôl (grave, hell, pit). (2) geenna ( a valley of Jerusalem) (3) hadēs (grave, hell) (4) tartaroō (the deepest abyss of Hades)- This is a place for Satan and his Angels.
2Pe 2:4 ForG1063 ifG1487 GodG2316 sparedG5339 notG3756 the angelsG32 that sinned,G264 butG235 cast them down to hell,G5020 and deliveredG3860 them into chainsG4577 of darkness,G2217 to be reservedG5083 untoG1519 judgment;G2920 - But as you can read they will be reserved unto judgment.
They are more then one place and talking about the "grave" and the last one is for Satan and his Angels. So when we are talking about Hell lets be sure we are not talking about the Hell for Satan and his Angels but Hell meaning the grave for "people" otherwise we lose the meaning and end up thinking that the "tartaroō" hell is for people.
Mark
H7585
שׁאל שׁאול
she'ôl she'ôl
sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
G1067
γέεννα
geenna
gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
G86
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
G5020
ταρταρόω
tartaroō
tar-tar-o'-o
From Τάρταρος Tartaros̄ (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment: - cast down to hell.
_____________________________
Hi, if you post something to me and I do to reply please e-mail so I can. I sometimes forget to put to let me know when people post. Mark
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 1:46:33 AM
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MAP2010
Posts: 53
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KaseyTom
Is Hell a place of eternal unspeakable pain and suffering analogous to being perpetually burned alive or worse?
Or is Hell simply a place without God.
Bonus question for those who chose 1.
Why would a just and loving God punish people so horribly simply because circumstances or place of birth led them to a different belief then yours?
I know this has been asked 1000 times before but I have never heard a satisfactory answer. This question baffles me more then any other about the nature of evangelical Christian belief. It's as if for me to believe as you I would have to love a God who condemned my beloved mother and father to eternal, unspeakable suffering simple because they happen to choose a life of science.
As just posted I feel the Hell for people is the grave, but that in itself is very bad. But to say that God will not forgive them for not taking Jesus I think maybe after The Day of Judgment that why you can say I'm sorry, I think that might be a day He will say otherwise. Why? because if he was not going to look over their life then why have a Day of Judgment? I (think) that will be the day he looks you in the eyes and ask you what you did right and wrong and you will have to tell Him. But God loves every man women and child, so only God knows what he will do. But we should all pray for the lost.
I Wish no one to be in any type of Hell at all.
Mark
_____________________________
Hi, if you post something to me and I do to reply please e-mail so I can. I sometimes forget to put to let me know when people post. Mark
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 4:37:47 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1640
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: online
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quote:
I'm sorry, but the concept of a just and loving God condemning 3/4ths of the worlds population to an eternity of unspeakable suffering simply because they had the wrong religious beliefs is beyond comprehension to me.
God doesn't send someone to hell because they aren't believing the right thing. God sends someone to hell because they are a sinner, whose sins remain unforgiven. The only difference, from an eternal-destination-point-of-view, between a Christian and a non-Christian is that the Christian has accepted the forgiveness offered by placing faith in Christ's death on the cross.
How could a just God allow sins to remain unpunished? And how can an offense against an eternal and perfectly holy God be anything less than eternal?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/28/2008 11:10:12 PM
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1970rodney
Posts: 1349
Joined: 5/1/2008
Status: offline
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The answer is both. A place of unspeakable eternal pain and a place without God.
_____________________________
I started out with nothing and still have most of it!
I don't have to go to Church, I get to!
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/29/2008 2:03:54 PM
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gr8tful1
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/15/2008
Status: offline
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I agree with wheelinpeace. We make the choice that determines our eternity.
So often people don't want to own their responsibility for their sin or the responsibility of the consequences of their sin. If we sin or know we are sinners and we know/have heard of God's redemption available to us through Jesus and choose not to put our faith in God's redemptive grace (Jesus) and we end up in hell... Really now, how is that God's fault? God provided a way out from judgment but we rejected it.
I believe in a omniscient, omnipotent, loving and just God who is able to make Himself known. Supernaturally if need be. And I believe that every person who seeks Him will find Him because He will make Himself known to them. Now, they may find Him only to reject Him. That is their choice. But to those who are seeking...they will find Him.
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RE: Nature of Hell - 9/29/2008 2:06:29 PM
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KaseyTom
Posts: 163
Joined: 9/12/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I'm sorry, but the concept of a just and loving God condemning 3/4ths of the worlds population to an eternity of unspeakable suffering simply because they had the wrong religious beliefs is beyond comprehension to me.
God doesn't send someone to hell because they aren't believing the right thing. God sends someone to hell because they are a sinner, whose sins remain unforgiven. The only difference, from an eternal-destination-point-of-view, between a Christian and a non-Christian is that the Christian has accepted the forgiveness offered by placing faith in Christ's death on the cross.
How could a just God allow sins to remain unpunished? And how can an offense against an eternal and perfectly holy God be anything less than eternal?
I don't believe in the God you folks describe not because I don't want to. Given the choice I would much rather believe in the certainty of a happy afterlife then the certainty of no afterlife. After all, believing in an afterlife is as there actually being one.
However, the personal experiences and observation of my life have led me to the following conclusions:
- Every religion claims to know the truth and claims every other religion is a lie.
- The sole source of evidence is the Bible which I know with certainty contains many factual inaccuracies and contradicts the entire world body of science, thousands of museums and universities overflowing with physical evidence, as well as the beliefs of 3/4 of the population of the world.
So, for coming to a perfectly reasonable and defensible conclusion based solely on evidence, observation, and logic, I deserve to burn in Hell for eternity?
< Message edited by KaseyTom -- 9/29/2008 2:16:30 PM >
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