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ORIGINAL: jonas049

In chapter 5 of John, it says that people would wait by this pool for an angel to come down, and would heal the first person that entered the pool.

Was this really true? Or was it just an "urban legend" created by the people living there?

If it really was true, why would God create something that would only heal whoever jumped in the water first?

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For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had.

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

Bethzatha? Where did that spelling come from?

Bethesda. Or, Beit ha Saida - The House of Mercy. áéúÎçñãà

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

NCV eh? interesting....

The KJV, NASB, ASV, ESV, ISV, WEB and The New Jerusalem Bible all have "Bethesda" in John 5.2.

The Latin Vulgate uses "Bethsaida."

The NCV stands alone in that spelling, which may be an English transliteration of the Greek transliteration of the actual Hebrew name.

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Asclepius the Healing God
Apollo's Son Asclepius

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The issue at stake in this showdown was: Who really is the Great Physician? And more important: Who really is God? (1) The Lord Jesus did not depend on any shrine, or ritual, or even an angel. He simply commanded the man to take up his bed and walk. This was something Eshmun or Asclepius could not do. The pagan deity’s “healing power” issued forth at a “certain season,” whereas the Lord Jesus was able to heal anytime, anywhere. The man responded positively and was healed instantly.

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When the Lord Jesus walked into “Bethesda,” He brought about a confrontation between Himself and the pagan healing deity. With just His words, the man took up his bed and walked away without even having to dip his little finger into the water, and without the angel of the pagan deity stirring up the water in the pool.

Jesus won the confrontation. He truly was and is the Great Physician, because He is the only true God. The others, be they Asclepius or Eshmun, are not gods at all (Isaiah 45:20-22; 44:9). This event fulfilled the first part of the theme of John’s gospel, to show that “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.”

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ORIGINAL: Row1

"Was this really true?"

"If it really was true, why would God create something that would only heal whoever jumped in the water first?"

I doubt this was true.

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Where in the bible is there ANY mention of ANY ritual behaviors or ANY ritual chants that will, tit-for-tat, cure some specific problem, or bring some specific consequence?

God does not work like that. Show me one example. God can do these types of things, for specific purposes, but there is no system for making some specific miracle happen.

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ORIGINAL: colliefan

Nothing in the text states the movement in waters was from God. People went to the pool for the same reasons the flock to a Benny Hinn crusade and receive the same results.

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ORIGINAL: ffbruce

First of all, yes, the place was real. Archeology has unearthed it, and there is little dispute as to what it is.

Second, I would assume there must have been at least some healings that took place. Something unusual had happened once, or happened on a regular basis. Otherwise, why would all those people be there, waiting to get in?

Third, we cannot say for certain whether or not it was an angel of God that stirred the waters. The text implies that it was, therefore it's probably best to assume the accuracy of the text.

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Second, I would assume there must have been at least some healings that took place. Something unusual had happened once, or happened on a regular basis. Otherwise, why would all those people be there, waiting to get in?

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ORIGINAL: DaveW

Healing on the sabbath was only considered forbidden by the disciples of Rabbi Shammai, NOT by the disciples of Rabbi Hillel. (it had come up in the previous century over a doctor attending his patients) Judiasm eventually sided with Hillel. Of the 2, Hillel was certainly the more merciful.

I would suggest that this in no way reflects on the sabbath or the Law at all.

BTW, this story appears in the Old Syriac mss, some dating back to the late 2nd century:

John Five (syriac)

1. Afterwards there followed a feast of the Jews,* and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
2. There was in Jerusalem a place of baptism*, that is called in Hebrew "House of Harvest," which was [supported] by five columns.
3. And by these [columns] they used to throw down many people, with foul [illnesses,] the blind, the crippled and the withered; and they [eagerly awaited] the movement of the water.
4. For the angel, season by season, would come down for the baptism and would stir the water for them. And whoever went down first into the water, after the movement of the water, was restored* [from] whatever inadequacy they had.
5. There was a man there, one who for thirty-eight years had been [struck] with a foul illness.

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ORIGINAL: frankman

Maybe not, but some angry Jews were sure mad at Jesus for healing this man on the Sabbath. John 5:10 tells us about their reaction. "and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, It is the Sabbath; the law forbits you to carry your mat." Jesus healed a lot of people on the Sabbath in order to get the attention of the religious leaders, and believe you me, He got their attention all right in an angry way. In those days the Jews had a rigid traditional teaching, which by the way was not Scriptural, that anybody caught carrying anything from a public place to a private place on Saturday could be stoned to death. By Jesus asking the invalid man to violate this law He proved He was Lord, even of the Sabbath. By Jesus healing this man physically and later on asking him to seek forgiveness of his sins and stop sinning proved to the religious leaders that Jesus was not just another follower of their silly traditions, but the long promised Messiah and Redeemer.

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As to "silly traditions," I submit that they were honest efforts on the part of the originators and trainers of the pharasees to instruct the people in how to keep the Torah. Just as many denominations and other groups have forbidden things never addressed in scripture like playing cards, going to movies, wearing makeup, watching TV, etc. These were all honest, if misguided, efforts to aid people to walk in obedience.