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Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 2:07:59 AM
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lewbcw
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I have a silly question based on random occurrences I've had and wondered about, in which I've been either undercharged for an item or given extra money from someone...
I wonder what we ought to do in these situations and have listed a couple of real life examples:
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One common instance is from ordering food at a fast food restaurant and receiving a little extra change (or in some cases being short-changed). When I use the term "little" I mean between a few pennies to maybe a dollar or two - though usually closer to 10 - 15 cents. If I notice the incorrect and extra change after driving away and either returning home or to a distance that would inconvenience me to return, should I still go back and return the money or call them? Would this be considered stealing to not return the "small" over-change or possibly under-charged item from my meal? ...It's silly I know, but I have still debated it with friends many times. I feel that it is insignificant and not worth the return trip to return a few cents or a dollar and would probably let the incident go if it were the reverse situation as well (in which I was short-changed a few pennies to a dollar) if it was too much of a hassle to go back. Now I haven't mentioned the short-change dilemma specifically above, because I feel in that scenario, I have not stolen anything. I've just made a choice to ignore someone else's mistake, so there is no wrong. However, when I am the one who is getting the extra money, does that make me a thief? Does the amount of the money matter?...The state of the heart?...Social etiquette in our culture?
What do you do in these situations and how do you relate it to God's moral view of things?
....A second situation that recently happened to me has also made me curious. Last year, I received exactly $80 extra from a pay check and did not notice it until now (I believe the check was from November, so it was about six months ago). Given that it was a relatively insignificant amount in context of the thousands of dollars I made last year, is it still appropriate to return the money and/or inform them of the error? It came up recently as I was doing some personal accounting and finance work, but was bothersome to me, since I already filed my taxes and do not wish to go through all of the work again for a minor adjustment and pay fines ...particularly since the error was not on my part.
What would you make of this situation?
lewbcw
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 2:17:44 AM
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Jet_A_Jockey
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From: pensacola florid
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simple. Call the fast food place and let them know, and ask if you can swing it by next time you are near there.
As for work, let them know about it, and ask them what the best method of properly fixing the situation will be. Chances are, both will say 'dont worry about it', but thats not the point. The point is that you are doing your duty to be honest, and thats what God wants.
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And I don't care what they say, if what you need is your faith, then take a look in my face and know...
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 9:19:02 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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As for me, I always return the overage in change that I recieve.
I don't really have an opinion about it being sin or not to keep it, I just do not feel right and return it.
Sometimes that is not so easy.
I was in a store the other day, got change, went out to my car and was arranging my money. I noticed the lady had given me a dollar too much.
I go back in side wait in line again and when I get to the register and tell the lady; she has what could best be called a 'Hissy" fit. Telling me she does not make mistakes, etc. etc. After her rant, I politely laid the dollar on the counter and walked away.
I did not understand (nor need to), maybe correcting her paper work was a hassle or her boss was Attila the Hun.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 12:31:06 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1271
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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Good touch, rc. Personal recrimination rarely is helpful. If the difference shorts me and I didn't notice at the counter it's my oversight. If it's overage(too much change)I tip(or add to) that amount.
_____________________________
"Many of our prayers are for an easy solution. God is more glorifed in Him
when souls exhibit His Grace under pressure." -Elisabeth Elliot-
"But at my stumbling they gathered in glee...[but]How long, O Lord,
wilt thou look on?" -Psalms 35:15-
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 1:31:35 PM
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Doc65
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We've run into the same problem with fast food places but with a twist - some people will actually argue with you that they gave you the correct amount of change to the point where they will become angry...
In those cases, we've usually given the money to someone who is going into the place and told them to have a nice day...
Whatcha gonna do? I think what happens in these cases is that the cashier has made one boo-boo too many and is afraid that they are going to lose their job....
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 1:46:50 PM
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tafkam
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I would give it back in both instances described.
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Tafkam
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/16/2008 8:54:28 PM
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Cloak
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There is NO such thing as silly question.
In my case I have been overcharge $1.18 from my grocery store and I am going soon to show them the invoice.
Clerks make mistakes all the time either + more or - less. In my case this is not the 1st time. Around 1 month ago, I have been overcharged from another grocery store for the lettuce about $ 3 and something. I kept my invoice and the next time I went there, showed them the fault; I got refunded.
Clerks make mistakes all the time. Thank God they are in my area so that I can get back esp. in the case of being overcharged.
Same principle applies when you're being undercharged...just make sure you keep your invoice so that it can be a proof of what you're talking about.
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And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/17/2008 3:13:17 PM
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endless_night
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I was actually in both situation:
The first, I gave the money back.
The second, I gave the money back once I immediately realize that I had more money then I was supposed to. Believe me this was the toughest one because I had more than $1000 in my paycheck and I was extremely broke then. The hard part was that they had to take it out of future paychecks (now that hurt).
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/17/2008 4:16:35 PM
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JimboFletch
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I've made a special trip to return less than a dollar. If it's not mine, I return it. Not only is it the right thing to do, it completely removes any struggle with what I should do or should have done.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/18/2008 1:33:01 PM
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Dongus
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This may not wholly apply...
Decades ago and in my teens, I purchased some books at a store in New York City. As I was leaving, I quickly discovered that not only did I get my books, but the cashier gave me more change than I gave her in the first place. I went back in, told her of the error, and gave her the overage.
As she reached from behind the counter to accept the cash, I noticed the number tattooed on her arm. She took the cash and held onto my hand for a moment and smiled. She thanked me for returning the money. She said such things helped to restore her faith in humanity after having seen the very worst man could do to man. I had a softball-sized lump in my throat as I left.
From that day on she would never let me pay more than her cost for any book and would often tell me to just take the book gratis, even as I protested.
I think even if I was a raving athiest, I would have had to acknowledge this numinous moment. God makes Himself visible in our daily lives. It is those who refuse to or who cannot see who miss His presence. I still carry in me something worth so much more than the money I could have pocketed. This is God's abundant blessing.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/18/2008 10:26:52 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Wow. What a story. You are privileged. G-d bless you always and may His Face, the Messiah, shine upon you always.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/18/2008 10:29:14 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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If it is not yours, return it. If it accidentally came into your possession, return it. It is better to sleep with a fully free conscience than to eat the bitter dregs of theft.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/19/2008 9:24:52 AM
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rainbowtvp
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If I notice over or under change immediately, I return it (or ask for what is owed to me). If I notice it later, I don't bother, but likely would if it were a large amount ($5 or more).
There is another factor, though. Who made the mistake? If the store personnel made the mistake in my favor, it is the store's responsibility to absorb that mistake. If the store makes a mistake in short-changing me, they have a responsibility to correct that mistake. It is a part of doing business. So, while, as I said, I do give back money when over-changed, I don't consider it stealing (and why I don't bother to go back for small amounts).
As for the paycheck, it was probably not a mistake, but it is a good idea to check into it. For instance, I have a check now and then that is different for one reason or another and if I look into it, find out it is for a reason (in my case, usually related to local taxes or tuition reimbursement).
Tara P
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/19/2008 12:36:09 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I strongly disagree. Theft is not determined by the amount: theft is theft.
If I knowingly take an extra $1 from Bill Gates, because he gave back too much change, it is theft. If I knowingly take an extra $1 from the 17-year-old at Burger King, whose job depends upon the till balancing more times than not, it is still theft. The amount does not determine the sin: the Word determines the theft. The Word says "Don't steal," not "Don't steal amounts large enough to be missed or to effect another."
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/19/2008 2:32:31 PM
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rainbowtvp
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My point was that it is NOT the amount that makes it theft/not theft...
It is the fact that mistakes in change-making are a cost of doing business. If a business person makes an error, they are responsible for correcting/accepting that error.
Tara P
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/20/2008 12:50:04 AM
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Annie64
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I'm so glad you asked this "silly" question, Lewbcw! I had a similar situation recently, and almost started a thread about it, but I thought it was "silly," too. You and everyone who answered you proved that it wasn't!
Here's my situation. Near our house is a fast food place that two days a week sell cheesburgers and milkshakes for 69 cents each. We recently decided to take advantage of that deal and purchased 10 milkshakes and 10 cheesburgers to feed the five of us in our family. (They are very small.) We came home with 10 milkshakes and 9 cheesburgers and decided it was too much of a hassle to go back for the tenth. A few days later, when the deal came round again, we went back to the store and ordered again. This time they gave us an extra milkshake, which we didn't notice until we got home. I thought about going back to the store, but didn't do it because: 1) they certainly couldn't have taken the milkshake back. 2) We paid for what we actually ordered, so going back and trying to fix it would only create a hassle for them. I wasn't sure fixing it would even be possible. 3) We broke even because of their earlier mistake.
But I wasn't sure it was right. I asked my pastor's wife about it and she thought it was all right because of the third reason. I thought so, too, for all of the reasons, but I usually always try to fix an undercharge, which was why I wasn't sure. It didn't matter at all that it was only 69 cents, plus tax. Integrity is integrity, no matter what the price. I've heard stories about people going to great lengths to pay back a small undercharge, and I wasn't even going a mile to do it.
I'm still not sure fixing that situation would have been possible. Had I gone back, or better yet called them, and told them about it, they would have been virtually certain to tell me not to worry about it. That's probably what I should have done, but I've been so often accused of having an over-active conscience and creating legalism for myself, and I've so often been guilty of it, that sometimes I'm not sure, in situations like that, if that's what I'm doing or not. Now that I think about it, all those other reasons I listed were less to me than this one. It would have been tough to correct, and I didn't even know if attempting it was right or legalistic. I'd have been uncertain I did the right thing, even if I had tried to correct it. I like Doc65's suggestion of giving the money to someone else going into the restaurant and telling them to have a nice day.
As for the other situation, definitely you need to tell your HR person or whoever at your work is responsible. It could come out one way or another anyway, and you'd be liable.
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On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/20/2008 2:31:27 PM
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SteveSund
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From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
My point was that it is NOT the amount that makes it theft/not theft...
It is the fact that mistakes in change-making are a cost of doing business. If a business person makes an error, they are responsible for correcting/accepting that error.
Tara P
From a legal standpoint, if you unknowingly get too much change, then it is not theft.
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RE: Return Money In These Situations? - 6/20/2008 3:06:03 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SteveSund
quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
My point was that it is NOT the amount that makes it theft/not theft...
It is the fact that mistakes in change-making are a cost of doing business. If a business person makes an error, they are responsible for correcting/accepting that error.
Tara P
From a legal standpoint, if you unknowingly get too much change, then it is not theft.
Right. Until you know about it and choose to do nothing about it.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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