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ORIGINAL: freakofnature

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UMMMM I don't think Furnituremaker was stating his theory...... I believe THAT is SCRIPTURE !!

Oh my! You're right. Oh thank you thank you, I shall turn from my wicked ways... oh! I've been sooo eeeeeviil. I should just turn away from the opportunities that God grants me in my life to get a better job to open doors that I otherwise may have to close becuase, oh no, I can't be allowed to make money, that is just wrong wrong wrong... Although that opportunity maybe given me by God but... but... that's it... I shall sell everything. Forget working, forget all I have done in my life to get where I am at, all the hard work I have put in... Oh! Thank you Dolly... You have shown me the evilness of prosperity.
(tongue firmly planted in cheek)


With this mentallity, no wonder people in the world refuse to want to follow Christ. I understand the principles of tithing Dolly! Everything belongs to God, but why is it soooooooo hard to beleive that God may have granted some with talent to produce things that may cause them to make money???? Why is it soooooo hard to believe that God has given me the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of my labor, I give my tithe, I bring my offerings, I have four children that God has granted me, so I may have a large savings account, investments here and there, do you not think I may need those things to support four children? Dolly???

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

I guess you must be rich then. God PROSPERS us for a reason and it has nothing to do with 10%. Every penny that anyone has belongs to God, and not to the individual that "has" it. God expects you to USE what He gives you to do His work. If you tithe, be sure the tithe is being used the way God said to use it, and is not just going to expand your church building or some such. God never said to bury your talents, monetary or otherwise, in fact He rebuked the servant who did that. I don't know what God will say to the rich who have coveted His money when they get to heaven IF they get to heaven. I hope they do get there because Hell sounds like a horrible place. But....the eye of a needle is pretty small. In any case I don't think anyone is coveting YOUR money or any rich person's money, first of all because it isn't YOUR money... it's GOD'S money that He has entrusted to you. Now what will you do with it? Live lavishly? Like Jesus did? Stash it away like the rebuked servant? I think the real danger is that the RICH tend to covet more and more of God's money and it becomes their god instead of Him when they refuse to acknowledge that it is His money and refuse to follow His wishes in what to do with it. God is BLATANT about caring for the poor in the land.... there is absolutely NO doubt what God thinks about those that pass the needy by.

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ORIGINAL: Furnituremaker

Proverbs 14:31
He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
Proverbs 17:5
Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 19:17
He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
Proverbs 21:13
Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
Proverbs 22:22
Rob not the poor, because he is poor: neither oppress the afflicted in the gate:
Proverbs 29:7
The righteous considereth the cause of the poor: but the wicked regardeth not to know it.
Isaiah 58
1Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
2Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.
3Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours.
4Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.
5Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
6Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
8Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy reward.
9Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
10And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
11And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
FYI...I am not saying it ....The Word of God is...so argue with HIM..not me

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The problem with your theory on the rich

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God never says that we can't enjoy the fruits of our labor. However He also says that we have a responsibility to uplift the poor, the sick and the needy. Care for your family, no one is saying that you shouldn't as that's also a command of God's but we must also take care of one another and help the poor, the sick, the widow, etc.

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We talk about the rich because they have the money to do it. Bill Gates (just an example)could live with out 10 billion of his 60 billions, don't you think? To help some children, these poor vets coming home, etc with medical care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sophie11

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

I guess you must be rich then. God PROSPERS us for a reason and it has nothing to do with 10%. Every penny that anyone has belongs to God, and not to the individual that "has" it. God expects you to USE what He gives you to do His work. If you tithe, be sure the tithe is being used the way God said to use it, and is not just going to expand your church building or some such. God never said to bury your talents, monetary or otherwise, in fact He rebuked the servant who did that. I don't know what God will say to the rich who have coveted His money when they get to heaven IF they get to heaven. I hope they do get there because Hell sounds like a horrible place. But....the eye of a needle is pretty small. In any case I don't think anyone is coveting YOUR money or any rich person's money, first of all because it isn't YOUR money... it's GOD'S money that He has entrusted to you. Now what will you do with it? Live lavishly? Like Jesus did? Stash it away like the rebuked servant? I think the real danger is that the RICH tend to covet more and more of God's money and it becomes their god instead of Him when they refuse to acknowledge that it is His money and refuse to follow His wishes in what to do with it. God is BLATANT about caring for the poor in the land.... there is absolutely NO doubt what God thinks about those that pass the needy by.

Yes, I caught this message the first 5 times you posted it. If you are implying that I am rich, that is a nice judgement of you to make but you are wrong. As far as not caring about the poor? Well I've already discussed that too many times to remember so in order to keep my sanity I'm not getting into it again.

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ORIGINAL: freakofnature

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God never says that we can't enjoy the fruits of our labor. However He also says that we have a responsibility to uplift the poor, the sick and the needy. Care for your family, no one is saying that you shouldn't as that's also a command of God's but we must also take care of one another and help the poor, the sick, the widow, etc.

Let's say I do that and still have money??? When is enough enough for those of you arguing this point. Otherwise. I have stayed away from this discussion since last Friday and sorry that I interjected myself once again. This is a ridiculous discussion at this point and is going nowhere. It is the politics of class envy... I am done here. I need to go prosper some more and meet with some clients...

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

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ORIGINAL: Sophie11

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

I guess you must be rich then. God PROSPERS us for a reason and it has nothing to do with 10%. Every penny that anyone has belongs to God, and not to the individual that "has" it. God expects you to USE what He gives you to do His work. If you tithe, be sure the tithe is being used the way God said to use it, and is not just going to expand your church building or some such. God never said to bury your talents, monetary or otherwise, in fact He rebuked the servant who did that. I don't know what God will say to the rich who have coveted His money when they get to heaven IF they get to heaven. I hope they do get there because Hell sounds like a horrible place. But....the eye of a needle is pretty small. In any case I don't think anyone is coveting YOUR money or any rich person's money, first of all because it isn't YOUR money... it's GOD'S money that He has entrusted to you. Now what will you do with it? Live lavishly? Like Jesus did? Stash it away like the rebuked servant? I think the real danger is that the RICH tend to covet more and more of God's money and it becomes their god instead of Him when they refuse to acknowledge that it is His money and refuse to follow His wishes in what to do with it. God is BLATANT about caring for the poor in the land.... there is absolutely NO doubt what God thinks about those that pass the needy by.

Yes, I caught this message the first 5 times you posted it. If you are implying that I am rich, that is a nice judgement of you to make but you are wrong. As far as not caring about the poor? Well I've already discussed that too many times to remember so in order to keep my sanity I'm not getting into it again.

Actually I was responding to someone elses post Sophie, and hadn't assumed that you were rich.

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly

I DO understand BECAUSE of my long and varied experience with the system. The problem is corruption, but I believe if you would look into it you would find the corruption at the state and even the local level is a real problem and COULD be curtailed greatly with the right type of federal policing, which presently is NOT being done. Involvement of GOOD government is not bad. We need a GOOD and responsible federal government which is accountable to the taxpayers, and in turn holds the state and local administrators of its programs accountable. Do you think this is impossible then? We can have no hope of ever having such a federal government? I know the government will be flawed as are the men who run it, but there ARE degrees of effectiveness and accountability from one government to another.... they are not all universally totally debauched. And with God ALL things are possible. God grants rulers their power, and He can help them weild it fairly and judiciously. And I am NOT supporting any one party or individual here... Regardless of whom is in power in this country, they will only be as responsive as their constituents demand that they be. We do have power. Prayer is our greatest weapon against every form of evil or the potential for evil. With our prayers and our voices we need to demand justice.

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ORIGINAL: tracydolls

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The problem with your theory on the rich

This is what gets me! These Cheerleaders for the rich! Now nothing but Scipture was posted and it is someones theory?

Wow!

We talk about the rich because they have the money to do it. Bill Gates (just an example)could live with out 10 billion of his 60 billions, don't you think? To help some children, these poor vets coming home, etc with medical care.

I guess I would love to know why are Christians SO AGAINST helping anyone.

Thread after thread, don't do it, don't help. When the Bible clearly says 100's of times, help.

And please don't put up the one verse where Paul is talking to the MEN in the Church about working to eat. Doesnt apply to a legless man, a woman, children, etc.

Who should we help or cover? Anyone you like?

One thing my granmother taught me if you got your greedy little fist tight around the few dollars you do have, your hand is not open to recieve more!

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

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ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

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ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

Just curious, SovreignIsHe, do you have health insurance? If you do, do you realize that if you or someone in your household goes to the hospital or is hit with a catastrophic injury or illness, the rest of us who pay into that HMO or insurance plan are the ones who subsidize your medical bills?

What you pay into the plan is for your coverage...

John

You still didn't answer my questions.

1. Do you have medical insurance coverage?

2. If you pay for your family's medical care yourself, what would you do
if you, your spouse, or your child was hit with a catastrophic injury or
illness requiring treatment and/or medications that you couldn't pay
for?
a. take a second full-time job and try to pay for as much as you could.
b. try to get on medicaid or get SS DI or SSI disability income and
receive medicaid coverage with it.
c. Ask for help from family, friends, and church.
d. let yourself, your spouse, or your child die because you can't afford
the medical treatments/medications.

Please be specific in your response, providing us with a detailed explanation as to your choice(s).

I answered your question...

John

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ORIGINAL: whos_your_dolly



Sorry Sophie, obviously I'm anything but a techno genius and am struggling my way through mastering this quote/response thingy. I also somehow managed to get something called a "ticket"---now whatever is THAT and how did I manage to get one.

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ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22

People usually see a ticket when they report something in the forum.

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ORIGINAL: Lizahana

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ORIGINAL: freakofnature

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However, I know some that do not. Some do not, like my neighbor, who started a local charity out of her own garage - ran it successfully for 20+ years. She gave so much to people in need. Now, with chronic back problems, she was dropped by her insurance company. She may have to either sell her house or take a 2nd mortgage to pay for her surgeries; or, just live with sometimes debilitating back pain.

Sad story... wow... well.. choices choices? Not the tax payers problem. The reality is that she has had options and this is the option she choses. KEY WORDS "CHOOSES and CHOICE." All that personal responsibility junk ya' know.

I respectfully disagree. Like I said, I am a tax payer - been so for about 20 years & I would gladly pay more taxes to help get healthcare to all. Being an old tax payer does have its priveleges

Peace and God bless,

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Sorry, 'dolls, you just aren't convincing. If you think Christians are SO AGAINST helping anyone, then I'd say you don't know very many christians, if any. Either that or you've so let your anger consume you that you're unable to perceive anything without running it through your 'bitter filter', which has probably chased away any christian friends you did have. All I know is that you've hijacked an important discussion thread about socialized medicine and turned it into your own personal rant against 'the rich'. You've chased away 'freak', and now me, too. Have fun ranting against your imaginary rich christians who don't believe in helping people.

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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

The problem with your theory on the rich

This is what gets me! These Cheerleaders for the rich! Now nothing but Scipture was posted and it is someones theory?

Wow!

We talk about the rich because they have the money to do it. Bill Gates (just an example)could live with out 10 billion of his 60 billions, don't you think? To help some children, these poor vets coming home, etc with medical care.

I guess I would love to know why are Christians SO AGAINST helping anyone.

Thread after thread, don't do it, don't help. When the Bible clearly says 100's of times, help.

And please don't put up the one verse where Paul is talking to the MEN in the Church about working to eat. Doesnt apply to a legless man, a woman, children, etc.

Who should we help or cover? Anyone you like?

One thing my granmother taught me if you got your greedy little fist tight around the few dollars you do have, your hand is not open to recieve more!

Sorry, 'dolls, you just aren't convincing. If you think Christians are SO AGAINST helping anyone, then I'd say you don't know very many christians, if any. Either that or you've so let your anger consume you that you're unable to perceive anything without running it through your 'bitter filter', which has probably chased away any christian friends you did have. All I know is that you've hijacked an important discussion thread about socialized medicine and turned it into your own personal rant against 'the rich'. You've chased away 'freak', and now me, too. Have fun ranting against your imaginary rich christians who don't believe in helping people.

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ORIGINAL: Furnituremaker

The forum is about "Socialized Medical Care" . We have Socialized Medical Care now and is universal in that it is the safety net for the very ill, elderly disabled etc. in that it picks up when 'private health insurance' is exhausted.

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I don't know how you can separate the two subjects , social medicine and care for the poor(those who can not afford care etc.,which we are all in danger of becoming should we get very ill). It is easy to say the government is screwing it up..but the point I am trying to make is give us alternatives!? Don't want more taxes..fine then address the system and try to get it fixed. If the practice of tithing is correct then perhaps demand that the Church use the money for health care versus another empty building. As I have stated again and again it is not enough to just say what is wrong with the status quo...people are dying and in desperate need of care and relief from pain NOW, we need positive change that doesn't eliminate the care in place.

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To be honest I don't see how you can be a Christian and not support some form of universal care through some means be it government,church or just the private sector bringing its prices down so that all can afford it.