State rejects Christian education as valid for university admissions
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State rejects Christian education as valid for universi... - 7/19/2008 10:55:36 AM
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Marcus.
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Academia to high schools: No God allowed
Posted: July 19, 2008
12:00 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Arguments were heard today in a federal district court case to determine whether a state university system can dictate that private Christian schools in the state teach their college prep courses from exclusively secular, Bible- and God-free textbooks.
As WND reported earlier, the University of California system adopted a policy last year that basic science, history, and literature textbooks by major Christian book publishers wouldn't qualify for core admissions requirements because of the inclusion of Christian perspectives.
Robert Tyler, who is representing Calvary Chapel Christian School and five students in the case against the University of California, told WND that the university's discriminatory policy creates an ultimatum for Christian schools. "If you want courses to be approved in private education, so your students are qualified to attend (UC) institutions, you must teach from a secular point of view," he said.
Story continues
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/19/2008 11:46:39 AM
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mapachito13
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Burt Carney, an executive with the Association of Christian Schools International, said he's met with officials for the university system, and was told that there was no problem with the actual facts in a BJU physics textbook that was disallowed.
In fact, an ACSI report said, UC officials confirmed "that if the Scripture verses that begin each chapter were removed the textbook would likely be approved …" (Quote from article in OP)
That reeks of discrimination! They're learning the necessary facts so what's the problem. If they talk about Christ it's because they ARE a Christian school! Duh!!!!!
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/19/2008 11:53:06 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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So 'open minded' of them to exclude certain authors, isn't it? Such allowance for the 'free' exchange of ideas rather than dogmatic indoctrination remiss of principle.
Not at all entertaining to the creative side of things, in so maintaining their hypocrisy, all the while, so that the people will be controlled by not having God on their side, instead, so some are thinking!
For the children of those peoples who have monies go to the private schools, instead.
Anyway, I guess Calvary is in a position to claim suit on the basis of discrimination in civil rights as recorded in The Constitution and the ACLU could help them in this case. Prohibiting the free practice of The Faith and religion is unAmerican and improper with the precepts of the laws of The Great Land that we live among. Without regard to race, religion, creed.....
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Academia to high schools: No God allowed
Posted: July 19, 2008
12:00 am Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
Arguments were heard today in a federal district court case to determine whether a state university system can dictate that private Christian schools in the state teach their college prep courses from exclusively secular, Bible- and God-free textbooks.
As WND reported earlier, the University of California system adopted a policy last year that basic science, history, and literature textbooks by major Christian book publishers wouldn't qualify for core admissions requirements because of the inclusion of Christian perspectives.
Robert Tyler, who is representing Calvary Chapel Christian School and five students in the case against the University of California, told WND that the university's discriminatory policy creates an ultimatum for Christian schools. "If you want courses to be approved in private education, so your students are qualified to attend (UC) institutions, you must teach from a secular point of view," he said.
Story continues
< Message edited by cybrjewls -- 7/19/2008 12:03:13 PM >
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/19/2008 1:37:10 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1649
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
Burt Carney, an executive with the Association of Christian Schools International, said he's met with officials for the university system, and was told that there was no problem with the actual facts in a BJU physics textbook that was disallowed.
In fact, an ACSI report said, UC officials confirmed "that if the Scripture verses that begin each chapter were removed the textbook would likely be approved …" (Quote from article in OP)
That reeks of discrimination! They're learning the necessary facts so what's the problem. If they talk about Christ it's because they ARE a Christian school! Duh!!!!!
That's essentially the plaintiffs contending that the defendants said something.
quote:
They're learning the necessary facts so what's the problem.
That's part of the contention - UC doesn't believe that these particular textbooks don't meet minimum academic standards. From the biology book in question, "The people who have prepared this book have tried consistently to put the Word of God first and science second."
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/21/2008 11:11:13 AM
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cow451
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Once again, WorldNut's "reporting" shown for what it isn't: accurate and truthful.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/23/2008 9:40:34 PM
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Bettawrekonize
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
That's part of the contention - UC doesn't believe that these particular textbooks don't meet minimum academic standards. From the biology book in question, "The people who have prepared this book have tried consistently to put the Word of God first and science second."
As long as the texbooks teach the necessary facts and as long as the students could pass the same examinations as students from public high schools, I don't see why they should be denied access. Even if they "put science second," again, as long as all the necessary facts are in there and they could pass the same standard examinations, there should be no problems.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/23/2008 9:51:50 PM
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Bettawrekonize
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BTW, here is the link to the thread I started (though I would like that thread closed now that I've finally seen this thread somewhere on page two of current events at the time that I started my thread).
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/23/2008 10:03:42 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1649
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bettawrekonize
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
That's part of the contention - UC doesn't believe that these particular textbooks don't meet minimum academic standards. From the biology book in question, "The people who have prepared this book have tried consistently to put the Word of God first and science second."
As long as the texbooks teach the necessary facts and as long as the students could pass the same examinations as students from public high schools, I don't see why they should be denied access. Even if they "put science second," again, as long as all the necessary facts are in there and they could pass the same standard examinations, there should be no problems.
They can take standardized tests. From the WND article posted in the OP:
quote:
Under the admissions guidelines to University of California colleges, in-state students must either score in the top two to three percent on standardized tests or complete a core curriculum of approved preparatory classes (called "a-g" classes) to be deemed eligible for entrance into the state university system.
According to the lawsuit, more than 90 percent of UC students achieved eligibility by completing an approved a-g curriculum.
This lawsuit is about the second criteria - taking a list of approved courses. Even if you don't scoe in the top 3% on the standardized test, yo can also become eligible by taking a list of classes that the school says cover the basic material needed to prepare you for college. That's not exactly an uncommon requirement - how many people have trouble transferring credits between colleges?
Besides, most standardized tests (including the one CA students have to take to graduate) only cover math and english-language arts. The books listed in the OP were biology, history, social studies, and literature.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/23/2008 10:44:23 PM
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Zhi
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Hmm. State schools complain about "putting science second" when they spend millions in scholarships on people whose main virtue is the ability to dribble a basketball or score a touchdown? When they glorify their sports teams above their academics? When they pay their coaches more than they pay their profs?
There's irony for ya.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 6:15:29 AM
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Annie64
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I can see academia getting bent out of shape because Christians who put together a science book thought that God was more important that them!
Anyway, I'm just very glad that Indiana University doesn't think that way. I was never very fond of the curriculum that we used for homeschooling, but we used it because it worked for us. It wasn't on CU's "bad" list, but it probably wasn't reviewed, because it is unlikely that it would have been approved. It's a Christian curriculum that is extremely conservative, which is a good thing but it seems to me that liberal universities would take one look at it and smell a back woods ignoramus. That wasn't why I didn't like it, though. I was never certain about how good it was academically, and always wished we could have used A Beka instead, though my husband didn't agree. But A Beka, which I'd always thought of as academically rigorous, was on the "bad" list! My 18-year-old son graduated from homeschooling this year and we found to our intense disappointment that private college was going to be financially impossible, and so will be starting this fall at Indiana University/Perdue University at Indianapolis (known locally as IUPUI). He is receiving an academic scholarship. This is a scary, saddening story to me, because I know that we are not the only Christian parents to be unable to afford a private college for their kids. It scares me that if this suit doesn't prevail, other state universities might start acting this way, too.
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ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 8:31:51 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1649
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings iluvatar! As if by killing one of the head pastors' son some would avoid the importance presented in the free exchange of ideas prevalent in a 'free' society. So moral of someone to crash into his son's car killing him today!
Will wonders never cease, now there is a Martyr for the cause! If freedom does not prevail in these courts, it Will Be Prevailed upon for freedom in SomeOne Else's.
We see, once more, that Greg Laurie's son was, somehow, not 'fit' enough to survive according to the religious evolutionists in spiritual warfare.
What principle's, what precepts! How immoral of someone to think that blackmail, and gangster-type hits will prevail over Sound Understanding and Mercy.
Once again, the abomination of murder is put forth as reason to deny the people Justice in the courts of law in the land! For lucifer was a muderer from the beginning as written.
Our Lord says forgive our enemies, but if We will not stand firm in the Faith, then We will not stand at all!
quote:
But A Beka, which I'd always thought of as academically rigorous, was on the "bad" list!
It doesn't say that ALL A Beka books were not approved. IIRC, it only lists one. If you read some of the links I posted, they talk about how many of the school's other textbooks were approved and how it's not uncommon for textbooks of any sort to not be approved on the first pass.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 1:18:03 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 212
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It is secular America's way to try and keep Christians from occupying positions of 'influence' in America - but they're too dishonest to admit it. The 1st century church was comprised mostly of slaves and they turned the world upside-down. No matter how much Christ-hating America tries to thwart Christ's activity in the world - He is still on the throne and He will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it....Amen.
God bless abundantly,
Galadriel2
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 1:28:22 PM
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galadriel2
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I home-schooled my kids with A Beka up until the 10th and 8th grades and then they went to public school. When my oldest entered public school in the 10th grade I went to the parent-teacher conferences in the fall of that year. Her biology teacher told me that my child had a terrific grasp on the basic principles of science and he congratulated me on my home-schooling. Well, it was the A Beka curriculum and my smart kids that get the credit - more than me - but the A Beka curriculum is EXCELLENT.
God bless abundantly,
Galadriel2
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 2:57:01 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3889
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings iluvatar! As if by killing one of the head pastors' son some would avoid the importance presented in the free exchange of ideas prevalent in a 'free' society. So moral of someone to crash into his son's car killing him today!
Will wonders never cease, now there is a Martyr for the cause! If freedom does not prevail in these courts, it Will Be Prevailed upon for freedom in SomeOne Else's.
We see, once more, that Greg Laurie's son was, somehow, not 'fit' enough to survive according to the religious evolutionists in spiritual warfare.
What principle's, what precepts! How immoral of someone to think that blackmail, and gangster-type hits will prevail over Sound Understanding and Mercy.
Once again, the abomination of murder is put forth as reason to deny the people Justice in the courts of law in the land! For lucifer was a muderer from the beginning as written.
Our Lord says forgive our enemies, but if We will not stand firm in the Faith, then We will not stand at all!
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Where is UC's statement on this? It's SOooo unlike WND to not print the atheist, liberal bad guy's side of the story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/national/20christian.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/27/local/me-christian27
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/12/MNGBNG6N2K1.DTL
quote:
"If you want courses to be approved in private education, so your students are qualified to attend (UC) institutions, you must teach from a secular point of view," he said.
That isn't what they said. What they said was that in order for courses to count, they have to meet certain academic standards.
-Dan.
Wrong thread??????????????????
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 4:45:49 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 627
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings iluvatar! As if by killing one of the head pastors' son some would avoid the importance presented in the free exchange of ideas prevalent in a 'free' society. So moral of someone to crash into his son's car killing him today!
Will wonders never cease, now there is a Martyr for the cause! If freedom does not prevail in these courts, it Will Be Prevailed upon for freedom in SomeOne Else's.
We see, once more, that Greg Laurie's son was, somehow, not 'fit' enough to survive according to the religious evolutionists in spiritual warfare.
What principle's, what precepts! How immoral of someone to think that blackmail, and gangster-type hits will prevail over Sound Understanding and Mercy.
Once again, the abomination of murder is put forth as reason to deny the people Justice in the courts of law in the land! For lucifer was a muderer from the beginning as written.
Our Lord says forgive our enemies, but if We will not stand firm in the Faith, then We will not stand at all!
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Where is UC's statement on this? It's SOooo unlike WND to not print the atheist, liberal bad guy's side of the story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/national/20christian.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/27/local/me-christian27
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/12/MNGBNG6N2K1.DTL
quote:
"If you want courses to be approved in private education, so your students are qualified to attend (UC) institutions, you must teach from a secular point of view," he said.
That isn't what they said. What they said was that in order for courses to count, they have to meet certain academic standards.
-Dan.
Wrong thread??????????????????
Thanks Cow...I was beginning to think that I was the only one that had no idea of where this came from
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Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 5:35:37 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Sorry about that. I guess 'accidents' happen sometimes is what you believe.....
Others say: that there are things that happen for a purpose or reason, causally, rather than accidentally or by chaos. People of The Faith, for instance, Believe that things happen for purposes like Jesus' death on the cross.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: cybrjewls
Greetings iluvatar! As if by killing one of the head pastors' son some would avoid the importance presented in the free exchange of ideas prevalent in a 'free' society. So moral of someone to crash into his son's car killing him today!
Will wonders never cease, now there is a Martyr for the cause! If freedom does not prevail in these courts, it Will Be Prevailed upon for freedom in SomeOne Else's.
We see, once more, that Greg Laurie's son was, somehow, not 'fit' enough to survive according to the religious evolutionists in spiritual warfare.
What principle's, what precepts! How immoral of someone to think that blackmail, and gangster-type hits will prevail over Sound Understanding and Mercy.
Once again, the abomination of murder is put forth as reason to deny the people Justice in the courts of law in the land! For lucifer was a muderer from the beginning as written.
Our Lord says forgive our enemies, but if We will not stand firm in the Faith, then We will not stand at all!
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Where is UC's statement on this? It's SOooo unlike WND to not print the atheist, liberal bad guy's side of the story.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/national/20christian.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2005/aug/27/local/me-christian27
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/12/MNGBNG6N2K1.DTL
quote:
"If you want courses to be approved in private education, so your students are qualified to attend (UC) institutions, you must teach from a secular point of view," he said.
That isn't what they said. What they said was that in order for courses to count, they have to meet certain academic standards.
-Dan.
Wrong thread??????????????????
Thanks Cow...I was beginning to think that I was the only one that had no idea of where this came from
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 7/25/2008 11:09:16 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 627
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From: Rich The Hippie
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Cybrjewls
I have no idea what you are talking about in this thread. Could you try to be more coherent and less obtuse?
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/12/2008 7:26:34 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1025
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Academia to high schools: No God allowed
Funny, my take on the issue was different.
UC requires critical thinking in high school
In 2005, the Association of Christian Schools International sued the University of California for denying approval of certain high school classes taught at Christian schools. Recently, the UC won the case: UC press release, and full court decision.
Among the courses was a biology class. The text used in the class was evaluated by the UC and found to (among other faults) "[fail] to encourage critical thinking," which led to the class being denied approval for college admission.
Dr. Behe spoke (or wrote, rather) for the plaintiffs, saying that the text "mentions standard scientific content," but apparently did not address the "primary concerns that the nature of science, the theory of evolution, and critical thinking are not taught adequately."
Three of the other disputed courses were...
English: text was "inconsistent with . . . expectations regarding critical thinking and broad exposure to writers' key works."
History: "the text failed to adequately teach critical thinking and modern historical analytic methods"
Government: "text does not acknowledge the commonly-accepted framework for scholarly analysis and provides little opportunity for critical thinking"
I'm very relieved to hear that the governing body of my alma mater has some standards, requiring high schools to instil critical thinking in their students. However, the plaintiffs are appealing, so the fight to relax standards goes on.
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-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/12/2008 8:44:15 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1649
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Academia to high schools: No God allowed
Funny, my take on the issue was different.
UC requires critical thinking in high school
In 2005, the Association of Christian Schools International sued the University of California for denying approval of certain high school classes taught at Christian schools. Recently, the UC won the case: UC press release, and full court decision.
Thanks for those links - the decision was an interesting read. Calvary didn't bother to respond to UC's request to clarify the requirements for the "World Religions" course, which UC said could have been approved. The ACSI submitted its expert testimony almost a year too late, because they expected to win on 1st amendment grounds and to not have to argue the merits of the courses. In light of that, you have to wonder how well they evaluate the material they're teaching.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/12/2008 10:55:27 PM
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drj11
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Its interesting... there are Christian schools all over the country that don't seem to have to spar with the government to receive approval or accreditation. They do their jobs, and most do them well without interference. They also all teach religion classes without fear of censorship. Kinda blows this whole "government conspiracy against religious teaching" out of the water.
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/14/2008 10:35:52 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 437
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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the only secular view that they can truly accept is Nihilism ( a la Nietzche)...
wouldn't be surprised to see it turn into that...
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/14/2008 12:33:29 PM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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..
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: State rejects Christian education as valid for univ... - 8/18/2008 8:42:01 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1649
Joined: 4/12/2005
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The more I think about this, the more consistent it seems with my own Christian schooling. From grades 1-11, I went to small Christian schools using mostly the A Beka curriculum in elementary school and more Bob Jones in high school. The concerns expressed by the college administrators centered on the books' lack of focus on critical thought and analysis. It wasn't until my senior year when I switched schools that I remember anybody putting any sort of emphasis on critical thought or real research. Prior to that, the focus was definitely on memorization and following instructions - I was never taught how to study and analyze literature or how to properly research a subject or how to write a cohesive paper, but I do remember quite vividly years and years of grammar and a disproportionate emphasis on the proper punctuation for MLA citations.
Granted, it's probable that my instruction was heavily influenced by teachers who really didn't know any better and who thought that memorization equals learning, but I don't remember the curriculum encouraging much thinking either.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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