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ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom

I heard that taxing the oil companies is the Dems Idea of solving our high gas prices. I may be out in left field but how will taxing them so the government gets more money help us? Wont it just make oil companies raise their prices to make up for the tax?
Republicans have the idea that we should just make more fuel efficient cars. That is just a laughable. How is a new car payment on top of record prices suppose to help? Not to mention those who cannot afford a new car. We don't buy brand new cars we always buy cars that are a couple of years old.

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ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom

are the speculators the ones really driving our prices so high?

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ORIGINAL: inthysite

Senate Republicans Defeat Oil Windfall Tax Measure (Update3)

By Daniel Whitten

June 10 (Bloomberg) -- Senate Republicans thwarted Democratic-supported legislation that would increase windfall- profit taxes on oil companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp. as Democrats set their sights on tighter energy trading scrutiny.

...

Following the bill's defeat, Democrats said they may work on separate legislation to increase oversight of trading by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. Schumer said that parts of the windfall tax bill including commission provisions could be split into separate proposals.

...

Dorgan and other lawmakers have blamed investment banks, speculators, and hedge funds for buying commodities and driving up the prices. More scrutiny of their trades and stiffer margin limits could bring the price of oil down by 30 percent, Dorgan said at a press conference today.

Democrats hope to raise margin requirements on oil futures traders and extend federal scrutiny to all trades made in the U.S., including on foreign exchanges. They want to reclassify certain traders, such as investment banks, so that their trades can be more closely monitored.

Senate Republicans Defeat Oil Windfall Tax Measure

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom

are the speculators the ones really driving our prices so high?

That's a really complicated question that would involve a complicated and wishy-washy answer from me, but I can give you two simple facts that I'm relatively comfortable with:

-If the increase in oil prices in unwarranted, the speculators will lose a lot of money.

-If the increase in oil prices is warranted- and speculators are responsible for driving it up- then they have provided a valuable service by giving consumers some advanced notice about the higher oil prices. Paying $4/gallon over five years sure beats paying $2/gallon for three years, going to bed, and then waking up with $15/gallon gas and having to pay that for the last two.

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What happened on this bill and what was defeated yesterday was the ability to even debate the issues of the bill. The Repubs refused to even look at the bill and completely shut down any debate. I have no problem at all pulling the oil companies' government subsidies that they receive for various reasons. They don't need them. OR, they should have to agree to spend those subsidies in certain ways, such as increasing production or exploring alternative fuels, etc., what they do now is just buy up more of the company stock. They aren't investing in anything other than making their CEOs richer. If you're ok with this, then don't complain about gas prices and keep driving your gas guzzling cars. I'm not ok with it and I'm certainly not OK with Repubs shutting down debate. I CAN'T WAIT for November.

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ORIGINAL: relady

What happened on this bill and what was defeated yesterday was the ability to even debate the issues of the bill. The Repubs refused to even look at the bill and completely shut down any debate.

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I have no problem at all pulling the oil companies' government subsidies that they receive for various reasons. They don't need them. OR, they should have to agree to spend those subsidies in certain ways, such as increasing production or exploring alternative fuels, etc., what they do now is just buy up more of the company stock. They aren't investing in anything other than making their CEOs richer. If you're ok with this, then don't complain about gas prices and keep driving your gas guzzling cars. I'm not ok with it and I'm certainly not OK with Repubs shutting down debate. I CAN'T WAIT for November.

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Speculators do play a role in this, but lets keep the blame where it is ultimately due - the oil companies and the Bush administration. Ultimately what is taking place is nothing more than war profiteering.

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Most subsidies are associated with the development of oil fields and often require a lot of investment from oil companies.

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As much as I don't like defending Exxon, if Exxon Mobil shut down tomorrow, gas prices would likely be $5-6/gallon. Without these oil companies, your gas prices would be higher.

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

Most subsidies are associated with the development of oil fields and often require a lot of investment from oil companies.

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ORIGINAL: relady
As far as the Exxon CEO salary goes.....well, his salary package increased by 18% in 2007. Here is a link to the Reuters report, which I think says everything we need to know about oil company CEO pay:

Reuters News On CEO Salaries

I don't deny that they provide a service. And their basic salaries are just a portion of the whole "package" which always includes a LOT of company stock. OTOH, I suspect their worker salaries MAYBE increased by 3%. It's shameful all the way around. They don't NEED my tax money to prop up their business.

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Exxon made $10 BILLION in profts just last quarter. They don't need subsidies from the government for development. They don't need subsidies, period. If they do, then something is very wrong. I know that development is very expensive (and dangerous), but I just don't see how they need my tax money, not with the profits they are making.

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As much as I don't like defending Exxon, if Exxon Mobil shut down tomorrow, gas prices would likely be $5-6/gallon. Without these oil companies, your gas prices would be higher.

You can get down on them all you want for environmental issues, but I don't think it makes sense to get angry at suppliers if they're producing more oil than they consume.

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom

I heard that taxing the oil companies is the Dems Idea of solving our high gas prices. I may be out in left field but how will taxing them so the government gets more money help us? Wont it just make oil companies raise their prices to make up for the tax?
Republicans have the idea that we should just make more fuel efficient cars. That is just a laughable. How is a new car payment on top of record prices suppose to help? Not to mention those who cannot afford a new car. We don't buy brand new cars we always buy cars that are a couple of years old.

Actually, it's mostly the Democrats who think we should make fuel-efficient cars. Most Republicans have opposed CAFE standards.

I'll admit the Dems are wrong on a windfall profits tax, but making sure that when you do go out to buy a car that you can get better mileage is a great idea. When you go buy a used car in three years, increased fuel efficiency will be able to help you.

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How many American auto industry employees must lose their jobs before Democrats are happy with the mpg?

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ORIGINAL: sylvan

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As much as I don't like defending Exxon, if Exxon Mobil shut down tomorrow, gas prices would likely be $5-6/gallon. Without these oil companies, your gas prices would be higher.
You can get down on them all you want for environmental issues, but I don't think it makes sense to get angry at suppliers if they're producing more oil than they consume.

The war has kept Iraq's oil production at half the pre-war production level. That's a lot!! Oil companies love this because they can raise prices. It is war-profiteering, just like the Halliburton "no-bid" reconstruction contracts. Halliburton is also heavily involved in the oil business...pipelines, etc. Nothing new or complex is really happening with oil prices - keep production under control and rake in the profits. It's the same old story - pre-invasion Iraq wasn't much different than the old Red Line Agreement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_Agreement

Make no mistake, the war isn't about stealing oil - it's about controlling oil and dominating the world market by a small group of people. In this case, the small group is based in Houston, TX (Halliburton, Exxon, Conoco-Phillips, etc.) -

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just like the Halliburton "no-bid" reconstruction contracts

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it's about controlling oil and dominating the world market by a small group of people

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hey, isn't the President from there????? That's a big coincidence!!

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So, of all you people saying that, you're saying if Barack gets elected, then, MAGICALLY, the price of oil on global world markets will tumble downward?????

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ORIGINAL: ljmac
How many American auto industry employees must lose their jobs before Democrats are happy with the mpg?

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

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ORIGINAL: ljmac
How many American auto industry employees must lose their jobs before Democrats are happy with the mpg?

Actually, US mileage regulations create jobs. They make US cars more efficient and the US economy more efficient. Because of these regulations, we now use 45% of the oil we used in 1970 to generate a dollar of GDP. It also makes it cheaper to produce in the US than abroad. If US workers cost $10/hour but use 3 gallons/hour less fuel than Chinese ones, the US becomes more competitive.

So the wonderful thing about all of this is that the assumptions you make are probably incorrect. We can have BOTH efficiency AND more jobs. In any case, for every 1% increase in energy efficiency the US has, the economy saves $10 Billion/year. Assuming each GM employee makes an average of $100K/year, this is equivalent to all of the salaries of every GM employee.

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ORIGINAL: kernsfamily

quote:

ORIGINAL: sylvan

quote:

As much as I don't like defending Exxon, if Exxon Mobil shut down tomorrow, gas prices would likely be $5-6/gallon. Without these oil companies, your gas prices would be higher.
You can get down on them all you want for environmental issues, but I don't think it makes sense to get angry at suppliers if they're producing more oil than they consume.

The war has kept Iraq's oil production at half the pre-war production level. That's a lot!! Oil companies love this because they can raise prices. It is war-profiteering, just like the Halliburton "no-bid" reconstruction contracts. Halliburton is also heavily involved in the oil business...pipelines, etc. Nothing new or complex is really happening with oil prices - keep production under control and rake in the profits. It's the same old story - pre-invasion Iraq wasn't much different than the old Red Line Agreement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Line_Agreement

Make no mistake, the war isn't about stealing oil - it's about controlling oil and dominating the world market by a small group of people. In this case, the small group is based in Houston, TX (Halliburton, Exxon, Conoco-Phillips, etc.) -

So many myths to dispell.....and yet, so little time.

First of all, Exxon is based here in the Dallas area, NOT in Houston I should know. it's right around the corner from my house. Thousands of hard-working people (including many of our neighbors) go about their business there every day. You don't think they would like to have lower gas prices for their commute?.....

of those that are oil/energy market consultants, how many explain the current market to the reasons/causes you list above? NONE. (even those who work for independent consultancies)....

Speaking of a "tax" on "windfall profits".....have any idea how much Exxon paid in JUST federal income taxes last year? 30 BILLION dollars. (by far the most for any company in history)..... a 41% Tax Rate (that doesn't include that confiscatory taxes that you pay at the pump to state & federal gasoline taxes)....nationwide, those entities collect over a TRILLION dollars in taxes from YOU at the pump....profiting MUCH more than any oil company does..........so, who exactly WHO is getting a "windfall"????

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just like the Halliburton "no-bid" reconstruction contracts

now, why didn't we hear any "uproar" about "no bid" contracts when Clinton did exactly the same thing for Bosnia? (DynCorp WON the bidding for contracts there, but Clinton gave the contract to KBR/Halliburton anyway!).....what? no 'scandal' there?
regarding the Iraq war 'scandal' (called a 'scandal' because we're talking about Bush now, and NOT clinton)......the Dept. of Defense has REPEATEDLY said that KBR was "the only contractor that could satisfy the requirement for immediate execution"....and, among those with knowledge of other companies in that industry, it was well known....KBR was the only one that was "ready to go"....and capable of doing the job.

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it's about controlling oil and dominating the world market by a small group of people

that is impossible, especially to anyone that has a grasp on how large the world oil markets are.....Exxon only "Controls" a very small fraction of the world's supply, and yet, they are a "big player".....the industry is too fragmented for anyone to have any kind of "domination".....

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hey, isn't the President from there????? That's a big coincidence!!

So, of all you people saying that, you're saying if Barack gets elected, then, MAGICALLY, the price of oil on global world markets will tumble downward?????

Your "conspiracy" theories neglect the real reasons that oil has risen.....

1) Weak dollar
2) Remarkably much stronger demand, over the past 3-4-5 years from countries who, historically were not huge consumers (india, china, etc..etc...)
3) Lack of an ability to increase production here in the U.S., where proven reserves are....and, lack of an ability to build new refineries. (wonder whose fault that is???)
4) geo-political unrest in many areas where oil companies have been forced to produce oil.... (venezuela, algeria, khazakstan, etc..etc...)...

btw...halliburton is in the OIL SERVICES business....they are the ones out there doing the actual exploring/drilling/production of oil for their "customers" (exxon, chevron, etc..etc..). Back in 1997-1999, when the price of oil collapsed, they were laying off scores of hard working workers, and shutting down entire plants (no one drills for oil, at the COST of $45/bbl, when they know they are only going to sell it for $10-15/bbl....)

they do drilling & evaluation....and they do completion/production.....Halliburton is NOT in the pipeline business.....(exactly where did you get that from???)....

it is THEY who develop technology, along with "big oil", to extract oil from previously unreachable areas....or from wells that were once considered "dry" and "unproductive"....and, to produce oil as efficiently as possible, for the highest possible yields.

Just because VP Cheney once had a REAL job (unlike many other career politicians), doesn't make the great company he once ran "the problem".....companies like Halliburton, Schlumberger, BakerHughes, and many others...they are the SOLUTION to many of the energy "problems" we have today.....

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Speaking of myth. Believe what you want.

Yes, I've heard those convenient excuses. I definately don't have time to respond, especially to your assumptions.

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ORIGINAL: kernsfamily

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Speaking of myth. Believe what you want.

Yes, I've heard those convenient excuses. I definately don't have time to respond, especially to your assumptions.

I get my info from friends and neighbors who work for ExxonMobil, Halliburton and Fluor....and some relatives in houston who work for a specific independent energy consulting firm.
There's a wealth of this information also on the website for the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

Where do you get YOUR "information" from? If I were to guess, you get your info directly from the Democratic national committee's "talking points"....and from "election year" politicians trying to garner votes, and taking advantage of the population's ignorance to how the oil business works.....

EDIT: additionally.....the one statement that makes the point: of those people I know that are oil/energy market consultants and analysts, how many explain the current market to the reasons/causes you list above? NONE. (even those who work for independent consultancies)....