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Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 4:16:05 PM
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Lead1
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Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 5:12:46 PM
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chadoaksfan
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Interesting topic. Maybe other than the range of someone's voice, the quality of their voice makes them a good lead singer. With the Statlers, Don Reid (Lead) has a lower voice than Phil (Baritone), and Phil usually sings higher harmony than Don, but I'm sure most people would agree Don is a better candidate for lead singer than Phil. With the old Cumberland Boys (Depp Britt, Jim Worthing, Bill Britt, and Steve Goforth). Depp (tenor) probably sang lead more than he sang tenor, and Jim (lead) sang tenor. In secular music, a lead singer with a low voice is Mark Miller of Sawyer Brown. So, I guess people with all different ranges can be good lead singers.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 5:20:15 PM
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servants
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It could have been because Ed Enoch was JD's son in law. Or it could have been the chimistry. How about when Roy Tremble was hired to sing baritone for the Cathedrals and later become the tenor.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 5:54:09 PM
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Lead1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: servants
It could have been because Ed Enoch was JD's son in law. Or it could have been the chimistry. How about when Roy Tremble was hired to sing baritone for the Cathedrals and later become the tenor.
Don't get wrong, I'm not bashing Ed Enoch, he is one of my probably 4 or 5 favorite leads ever. In my opinion he is one of, if not the most powerful voice in gospel music of any era. Whether it be nepotism, or chemistry by which JD made his decision, it was a good one in my opinion.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 9:00:08 PM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lead1
Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
Tenors (in range):
James Blackwood
Jonathan Wilburn
Arthur Rice
Baritones:
Gerald Wolfe
McCray Dove
Glen Payne
I think in some cases, groups hire whoever is available and compensate their harmonic arrangements accordingly. I'm sure we could think of instances where groups hired one of one kind, then another of the other.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 9:05:45 PM
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servants
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At one time before he messed his voice up Donnie Sumner was a real lead vocal.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 9:15:22 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lead1
Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
Tenors (in range):
James Blackwood
Jonathan Wilburn
Arthur Rice
Baritones:
Gerald Wolfe
McCray Dove
Glen Payne
I think in some cases, groups hire whoever is available and compensate their harmonic arrangements accordingly. I'm sure we could think of instances where groups hired one of one kind, then another of the other.
Daniel I am glad you posted that. I love the Dove Brothers and McCray but have always thought of him as a Baritone. I believe Eric sings most of the high harmony in that group. I had begun to think I was the only one.
BTW sometimes a group does things like this ti achieve a sound they are looking for. I would like to have a Baritone, a good lead, and two tenors.
The baritone singing bass, the lead singing baritone, one tenor singing lead and the other actually singing tenor. Man could we do some inverted harmony.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 10:26:41 PM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
Daniel I am glad you posted that. I love the Dove Brothers and McCray but have always thought of him as a Baritone. I believe Eric sings most of the high harmony in that group. I had begun to think I was the only one.
BTW sometimes a group does things like this ti achieve a sound they are looking for. I would like to have a Baritone, a good lead, and two tenors.
The baritone singing bass, the lead singing baritone, one tenor singing lead and the other actually singing tenor. Man could we do some inverted harmony.
I've heard McCray hit some decently high notes, such as on some Dixie Melody Boys live recordings. But he has a range that a classical voice teacher would term a baritone range. (And classical baritones can hit high Gs and A-flats--it has to do with voice quality more than anything else.)
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 11:54:33 PM
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dbmurray
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lead1
Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
I believe Ed Hill was originally hired by JD to run a talent agency. He was temporarily brought into the Stamps at baritone when Donnie left, but that temp position soon became permanent.
"Lead" is not a particular vocal range, in my opinion. In the middle two parts, whoever sings melody is the "lead" and the other is the "baritone." Baritones have been harmonizing both above and below the lead for many years. To be successful, you put the individual on lead who has the most distinctive voice.
So...if you have both Ed Hill and Ed Enoch in the same group, Enoch is the one you want singing lead, because he has the more unique voice of the two.
The same applies to McCray and Eric Dove. McCray's tones stick out more in the mix, so it makes more sense for him to sing melody most of the time, even if Eric is singing above him.
Ditto for Glen Payne and Scott Fowler.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 11:56:51 PM
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dbmurray
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I would like to have a Baritone, a good lead, and two tenors.
The baritone singing bass, the lead singing baritone, one tenor singing lead and the other actually singing tenor. Man could we do some inverted harmony.
Sounds like the Gaither Vocal Band.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/28/2008 11:58:35 PM
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DrivenqtFan
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I think that Doug Anderson's voice sounds higher than Ryan Seaton's at times. I think they could easily switch positions.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 12:41:08 AM
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Sing2him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dbmurray
Sounds like the Gaither Vocal Band.
That is exactly what I thought!!! Wasn't Bill originally the baritone?
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 8:07:26 AM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sing2him
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbmurray
Sounds like the Gaither Vocal Band.
That is exactly what I thought!!! Wasn't Bill originally the baritone?
Yes, he was.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 8:09:43 AM
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danielmount
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DrivenqtFan
I think that Doug Anderson's voice sounds higher than Ryan Seaton's at times. I think they could easily switch positions.
They do have comparably high ranges, but Ryan Seaton has more power and "last" at high Fs and Gs and thereabouts.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 8:30:31 AM
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GVfan
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I think that both Doug and Ryan have incredibly beautiful voices!
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 8:56:18 AM
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CzarofSGMR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dbmurray
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lead1
Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
I believe Ed Hill was originally hired by JD to run a talent agency. He was temporarily brought into the Stamps at baritone when Donnie left, but that temp position soon became permanent.
So...if you have both Ed Hill and Ed Enoch in the same group, Enoch is the one you want singing lead, because he has the more unique voice of the two.
The same applies to McCray and Eric Dove. McCray's tones stick out more in the mix, so it makes more sense for him to sing melody most of the time, even if Eric is singing above him.
Ditto for Glen Payne and Scott Fowler.
David, I think you're getting your Eds a bit confused.
Ed Enoch was the baritone singer when Donnie Sumner left the Stamps to form VOICE. JD moved Enoch to lead and hired Dave Rowland to sing baritone.
Dave didn't stay there too long (he made at least two albums), and JD convinced Ed Hill to leave the talent agency and sing baritone "until he could find somebody else". That lasted quite a few years.
It can be easy to get those names confused. For example:
I saw the Stamps once with two Eds (Ed Hill and Ed Enoch) and two Ronnies (Ronnie Booth and Ronnie Mabe). JD said, "Larry, guess I'll change your name to JD and I won't have near as much stuff to remember!"
John
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 10:29:41 AM
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dbmurray
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CzarofSGMR
David, I think you're getting your Eds a bit confused.
I know Enoch was already there when Hill joined. I was just mistaken about which singer left, opening a slot for Hill.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 1:35:22 PM
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Preachingbass
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CzarofSGMR
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbmurray
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lead1
Lets separate all the lead singers people can think of, past and present into two groups, tenor or baritone. Then answer the question, What about the dynamics of the group made it so there was a tenor in the lead position or a baritone.
e.g....Why was Ed Enoch lead in the Stamps Quartet when his voice was lower than normal for the average lead? Why did JD slide Ed over from the baritone position when Donnie left instead of hiring a new lead?
I believe Ed Hill was originally hired by JD to run a talent agency. He was temporarily brought into the Stamps at baritone when Donnie left, but that temp position soon became permanent.
So...if you have both Ed Hill and Ed Enoch in the same group, Enoch is the one you want singing lead, because he has the more unique voice of the two.
The same applies to McCray and Eric Dove. McCray's tones stick out more in the mix, so it makes more sense for him to sing melody most of the time, even if Eric is singing above him.
Ditto for Glen Payne and Scott Fowler.
David, I think you're getting your Eds a bit confused.
Ed Enoch was the baritone singer when Donnie Sumner left the Stamps to form VOICE. JD moved Enoch to lead and hired Dave Rowland to sing baritone.
Dave didn't stay there too long (he made at least two albums), and JD convinced Ed Hill to leave the talent agency and sing baritone "until he could find somebody else". That lasted quite a few years.
It can be easy to get those names confused. For example:
I saw the Stamps once with two Eds (Ed Hill and Ed Enoch) and two Ronnies (Ronnie Booth and Ronnie Mabe). JD said, "Larry, guess I'll change your name to JD and I won't have near as much stuff to remember!"
John
Ed Enoch was called by Elvis as the greatest lead in Gospel Music. Also on the night's when Elvis did not feel up to par, Ed hit those high notes on songs such as Triology and How Great Thou Art, as a support for Elvis. Ed can still hit those notes in his mid 60's. Listen to some of the old recordings of The Stamps. There is one live recording of Lonesome Road that Ed hit hits some very soild Tenor. JD says you better be glad you are my son-in-law. This version is on the Hame of Fame Cd with is a compulation of greatestest hits of JD and the Stamps.
Also on the Lead/Baritone issue, what about Phil Balsley and Don Reid of the Statler Brother's. Phil would almost always sang the harmony part above Don just below Lew Dewitt or Jimmy Fortune.
David
< Message edited by Preachingbass -- 8/29/2008 1:41:50 PM >
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 5:37:01 PM
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Sing2him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
BTW sometimes a group does things like this ti achieve a sound they are looking for. I would like to have a Baritone, a good lead, and two tenors.
I also like the 2 tenors (1st & 2nd), good lead and a Bass dropping low. It leaves a little larger gap between the baritone part (sung by the lead) and the bass, but i love that sound. I think this is the category Gold City usually falls into. If I'm not mistaken, their lead singer was always able to sing a lot higher than a normal lead singer, but they have always had a bass who could scrape the bottom.
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 7:00:23 PM
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Lead1
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Can anyone here approximate Ed Enoch's range?
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/29/2008 9:50:25 PM
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jwsduran
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On another note, I always wonder that with Jerry Thompson with the Nelons. Sometimes Rex would introduce him as the lead singer and other times as the tenor. When Karen Peck left the group, I think that Jerry took Karen's part and Kelly's Jerry's part.
And why did the Hoppers have 2 tenor singers with SHaron & Greg Bentley in the 1980's?
Thoughts?
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RE: Tenor or Baritone - 8/30/2008 9:49:08 PM
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Billboy
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The Kingsmen have a tenor singing lead and a lead singing baritone now.
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