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Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 9:07:47 AM
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mvic
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Consider this debate I had with a friend the other day.
He believes that this world/life is a Training Ground for the next. We will face trials and tribulations like illness, divorce, loss of job, lack of money etc ... etc ... We are being tested by God in preparation for a future life with Him. Our tests will depend on our strength/weakness of character; each one faces different tests. But He will not test us beyond our power of endurance to make us fail.
He rests his argument on the following passage: “Every test that you have experienced is the kind that normally comes to people. But God keeps his promise, and He will not allow you to be tested beyond your power to remain firm; at the time you are put to the test, He will give you the strength to endure it, and so provide you with a way out”. (1 Corinthians Chapter 10 Verse 13).
What do you think?
_____________________________
http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 9:28:57 AM
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crh737
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I believe your friend missed this chapter 21, from the book of Revelation.
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and first earth has passed away. Also there was no more sea.
v3 and I heard a loud voice from heaven saying Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
v4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes, there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
CRH
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 12:25:47 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Consider this debate I had with a friend the other day.
He believes that this world/life is a Training Ground for the next. We will face trials and tribulations like illness, divorce, loss of job, lack of money etc ... etc ... We are being tested by God in preparation for a future life with Him. Our tests will depend on our strength/weakness of character; each one faces different tests. But He will not test us beyond our power of endurance to make us fail.
He rests his argument on the following passage: “Every test that you have experienced is the kind that normally comes to people. But God keeps his promise, and He will not allow you to be tested beyond your power to remain firm; at the time you are put to the test, He will give you the strength to endure it, and so provide you with a way out”. (1 Corinthians Chapter 10 Verse 13).
What do you think?
Does your friend mean it in regards to rewards we receive when we stand before the Lord?
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 1:20:48 PM
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mvic
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No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
Like in the story of Job ... he was tested to see whether he'd deny God.
So are we being tested over and again to see how we would react to different situations: loss of job, divorce etc ....
The test is personal: for example if you are resilient and don't care too much about loosing a job since you can easily get another, then your test may be an illness or something else.
It seems to me odd that a loving God would be up there plotting on how to test us mere mortals.
On the other hand, it begs the question why would a loving God allow trials and tribulations to come our way.
_____________________________
http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 3:22:13 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
Like in the story of Job ... he was tested to see whether he'd deny God.
So are we being tested over and again to see how we would react to different situations: loss of job, divorce etc ....
The test is personal: for example if you are resilient and don't care too much about loosing a job since you can easily get another, then your test may be an illness or something else.
It seems to me odd that a loving God would be up there plotting on how to test us mere mortals.
On the other hand, it begs the question why would a loving God allow trials and tribulations to come our way.
If it is a testing ground to see if we are worthy, then it would seem that God could have ended it all a long, long time ago.
We are not worthy. He knows it...and so do we.
The test is to disprove what the Accuser puts forth. Satan's argument is that man will always choose independence from God over dependence on God, when given the free choice to do so.
We Christians are the rebuttal to that argument. We who freely choose dependence upon God, over our own independence, regardless of the consequences in this life.
And no, I have absolutely no scriptural support for this, it is pure conjecture.
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 3:34:22 PM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
I agree in part. We come to the point where we realize we can't do it, and we turn to God and cry for help. At that point we learn 1) we are broken 2) God is strong and 3) God loves us and wants to do it for us and through us for His glory.
No one is worthy to go to heaven. That's why Jesus died - to rescue us from hell. When we blow it and turn to God, it helps us realize who we are and who God is. We are weak but He is strong. Praise Him forever for His grace to us!
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 4:16:47 PM
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terryjohn
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Maybe we should say life is but boot camp for the battle to come rather than a test. I mean who would want to be given a rifle and be told to go to battle without some training? Sure some find the training too hard and give up and go AWOL. But doing this does not mean the battle goes away in fact it comes alot closer to home. No life is an opportunity and a challange and hiding trembling in a dark cave why the Kingdom of God thunders by outside is not something I want to do. In fact, the wounded and even the slain rise to march towards the oncoming battle with Christ. No as warriors we do not sit around bored with no demons to fight for as I hear it they are at the gate.
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 4:17:03 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
Like in the story of Job ... he was tested to see whether he'd deny God.
So are we being tested over and again to see how we would react to different situations: loss of job, divorce etc ....
The test is personal: for example if you are resilient and don't care too much about loosing a job since you can easily get another, then your test may be an illness or something else.
It seems to me odd that a loving God would be up there plotting on how to test us mere mortals.
On the other hand, it begs the question why would a loving God allow trials and tribulations to come our way.
No, I don't agree with that. God does not sit up there and plot. He does allow things in our life to conform us into the image of Christ, however. And He does allow things so that we have the privledge of glorifying Him.
We will never know this side of eternity the answer to your last question. Sometimes the only answer I get from Him when I am in the thick of it is His reassuring voice whispering "I am with Thee"...
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8: 28-29
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 8:05:19 PM
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crh737
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Like in the story of Job ... he was tested to see whether he'd deny God.
God did not put Job to the test it was satan. He asked God, "Well what about your faithful servant Job, I know he will curse you if you let down that hedge you put about him?"
So you have that wrong.
As in the book of Romans chapt.5 we all go through trials and in them should rejoice. However sometimes we do not see what God plan is and sometimes we stumble.
THe only new life is: a new page or chapter to the one you are now living. And there goes the sun down
CRH
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/16/2008 9:46:20 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
He believes that this world/life is a Training Ground for the next.
I agree.
It is about a relationship and growing closer to the One we love so that we will truly enjoy Him when we are on the other side of eternity. The trials strip away all that separates us from Him. It has nothing to do with worth. It has everything to do with Love and knowing Him. 
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 3:18:52 PM
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Knolt
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In recent history especially, I've had a tendency to respond to trials and tribulations in a very "non-Christian" way. years ago I took it in stride and tried to handle it in a "christian" way. however, in recent history, when I was going through trying times someone came up to me in the church lobby one morning before service and asked me how things were going. My response was this: "Things are pretty (expletive) right now." In recent history I've had a tendency to pray like this "Lord, I know Your Word says to be thankful for trials and tribulations. Well, I'm not thankful for this at all." I would then yell up to heaven, "THIS SUCKS!!!" Years ago I thought praying a prayer like that would have been totally sacriligious. Is it okay to have an attitude like that if you're a Christian?
< Message edited by Knolt -- 5/21/2008 3:25:46 PM >
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 3:20:53 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
So your friend denies Jesus Christ and is not a Christian?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 3:56:19 PM
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deliveredarling
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I do believe we are tested, that life is a test. The more we grow in knowledge of the Lord, the more we are being refined (tested). I base this thought on :
Rom 5:3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
Not only is our testing for us and our walk, it is a testimony to others for the Glory of God.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 4:02:56 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I do believe we are tested, that life is a test. The more we grow in knowledge of the Lord, the more we are being refined (tested). I base this thought on :
Rom 5:3 And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
Not only is our testing for us and our walk, it is a testimony to others for the Glory of God.
Yes, but our testing/being tested is not to determine if we are born-again (saved).
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 5:28:42 PM
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deliveredarling
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Earthless,
I'm not sure where the salvation part comes in from the op. Why would unsaved people be tested? I guess I'm not seeing what you are in the op....
edited to add:
Never mind earthless. You are referring to the worthy part.
No testing is not about worthiness, it is about our learning what the Lord has to teach us here and now. Knowing the thickness of our flesh, sometimes it takes a few hard roads for us to understand and "get it."
The test itself does not determine whether or not we enter Heaven, only belief in Jesus Christ determines that.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 5/21/2008 5:40:09 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 5:35:57 PM
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DenimDiva
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
No ... nothing to do with future rewards. Just that this life is a testing phase to prepare us or to see that we are worthy to go to Heaven.
Tell him to stop worrying. We're not worthy. That's why we have Christ.
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 5:42:12 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Earthless,
I'm not sure where the salvation part comes in from the op. Why would unsaved people be tested? I guess I'm not seeing what you are in the op....
edited to add:
Never mind earthless. You are referring to the worthy part.
No testing is not about worthiness, it is about our learning what the Lord has to teach us here and now. Knowing the thickness of our flesh, sometimes it takes a few hard roads for us to understand and "get it."
The test itself does not determine whether or not we enter Heaven, only belief in Jesus Christ determines that.
The way it is worded seems to say otherwise, so clarification is definitely needed.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 5:44:44 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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I agree to a point that this is a test, life itself is a test. But not in the way your friend may think. It has already been said that God is not up there plotting our next test to see if we will fall. He is not up there laughing as He looks down at us, saying, oh yeah little man, lets see how you handle this one.
But the tests will come, the trials will come, the tribulations will come, to grow our faith, and to get us to a point when we are able to say you know what God I can't do this without you. He tests us so we can realize that we need to stop relying on ourselves and rely solely on Him.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 6:53:23 PM
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Ignited-Faith
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We all have a lot to learn! I believe we learn the best lessons
through trials and tests. We especially learn to trust the Lord,
and grow in our faith!
I am reminded of the words of Christ!
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33
Also:
"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." James 1:2-4
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 7:17:44 PM
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mvic
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Thanx all for your inputs.
Let's see if I got this straight: God does test us. But it has nothing to do with checking whether we are worthy to enter Heaven or not.
He tests us to strengthen our Faith and to get us to admit that we "can't do this without You"; and we have to rely on Him.
He tests us because we have a lot to learn "through trials and tribulations".
Now I am really confused - never mind my friend who started this debate!
If these were God's motives - to test us - then does it not make Him a punishing Headmaster seeking our submission?
Personally, I don't believe He tests us at all.
Trials and tribulations (or problems to give them their modern name) are a way of life. They just happen. Sometimes they happen because of something we've done, and sometimes they happen through the actions of others.
God allows them to happen. (Remember Free Will?). And it's up to us to deal with them as best we can.
The stubborn amongst us will deal with them on their own; the more enlightened will seek His help.
_____________________________
http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 7:31:30 PM
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ladyichigo
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(((sticking head out really quick)))
I think:
Tests, trials, tribulations are set before us so that we learn to get closer to God, rely on Him and it prepare us to have Him be the center of the universe, to be in His holy awesome presence for eternity. Those who choose to accept God’s awesome grace and live a life of obedience to His Will, will continue to be disciplined (trained) and refined through out their life here on earth, so when the time comes for them leave, they will find utter joy to be in His presence because they expected Him to be there, whereas those who do not choose God to be the center of their universe, and instead choose themselves and their own path, will find His presence to be excruciating and punishing because “they” are not the center of the universe.
Take for example, the undisciplined child who comes from an unstructured life. When this child is put into school, or daycare where there is structure and a schedule, they will protest, and throw a fit because they cannot have it “their” way. They will complain that the teachers are mean, and the kids don’t play with them, etc. etc. Those who are disciplined, and have had structure in their life will have a good time, get along with their classmates, learn better, and will appreciate the structure and correction from their teachers because they expect it.
(((ducking head back in and looking for cover)))
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/21/2008 9:12:13 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
quote:
Trials and tribulations (or problems to give them their modern name) are a way of life. They just happen. Sometimes they happen because of something we've done, and sometimes they happen through the actions of others.
This is true. However, the key thing to remember is how we choose to deal wih them, in a Godly manner or in a fleshly manner. Our existence here on this earth is all about Him. It is for Him, to glorify Him. We run into trouble of all sorts when we make life about us. This in itself is a test. Whom will we choose to serve today, Him or ourselves.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Testing ... Testing ... Testing ... - 5/22/2008 7:52:52 AM
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x0846
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Consider this debate I had with a friend the other day.
He believes that this world/life is a Training Ground for the next. We will face trials and tribulations like illness, divorce, loss of job, lack of money etc ... etc ... We are being tested by God in preparation for a future life with Him. Our tests will depend on our strength/weakness of character; each one faces different tests. But He will not test us beyond our power of endurance to make us fail.
He rests his argument on the following passage: “Every test that you have experienced is the kind that normally comes to people. But God keeps his promise, and He will not allow you to be tested beyond your power to remain firm; at the time you are put to the test, He will give you the strength to endure it, and so provide you with a way out”. (1 Corinthians Chapter 10 Verse 13).
What do you think?
Does your friend mean it in regards to rewards we receive when we stand before the Lord?
My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.......Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (James 1)
Faith is like a muscle the more you use it the stronger it becomes. So when we are in crisis and use our faith to get through it our faith gets stronger. The stronger our faith the bigger the crisis we can handle, the stronger the muscle the bigger/heavier the weight we can handle. If you don't strengthen your faith you'll have a harder time overcoming the trials that we face. If you don't increase the weight you won't get stronger, if you can't carry 50 lbs how can you expect to carry 75 lbs? We grow in faith by using it when times get tough, so God through His word will help us carry the weight.
faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10)
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