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The Horn Iron - 8/12/2008 10:37:05 AM
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diddl2007
Posts: 22
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Here a study of the Bible that I made.
I think that America is mentioned in the Bible like the horn iron :
Micah 4:11/13
Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion. But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.
We know that the Horn in the Bible is the symbol of a kingdom, a country.
See Daniel :
Daniel 7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after themand he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
Micah 8:20/22
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power
What's the country, the kingdom who defends Israel, Jerusalem What's country who support Israel today.
The USA is a horn iron for Jerusalem, for Israel. But I know that some Christians think that one day Israel will be alone, abandoned by all countries because in Zechariah :
Zechariah 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it
But I think this prophecy in Zechariah has been achieved, because before that USA exist, all the people of the earth made war against Jerusalem.
See Islamic conquests, catholic conquests and many of other from different people on the earth in the history who made war against Jerusalem.... And we read the prophecy of Micah, we read this :
Micah 4:11/13
Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion. But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.
So Micah speaks about the prophecy of Zechariah that has been achieved when he says : Now also many nations are gathered against thee and after that, God will make thine horn iron for the daughter of Zion. It is my point of view about this horn iron which I wanted to share with you all.
God bless you all
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RE: The Horn Iron - 8/20/2008 8:01:23 AM
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diddl2007
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But in the end of times just before the coming of Christ like Zechariah wrote :
Zechariah 14:1-4
"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
I think the Horn Iron is USA but all other nations are against Israel.
We see it with United Nation, the only country who opposes to all nations to protect Israel against sanctions is America...
It's my opinion...
< Message edited by diddl2007 -- 8/21/2008 12:57:14 PM >
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RE: The Horn Iron - 8/21/2008 10:08:22 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Only problem is that the first passage you mention says specifically tha God is addressing the Daughter of Zion. So God is telling Israel that He is going to make "her horn" into Iron. So no, it isn't talking about the USA, but it is rather talking about Israel. To pull out the "iron horn" is to ignore the reciepient of the message that is mentioned earlier in the same verse.
Adam
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RE: The Horn Iron - 8/23/2008 7:57:00 PM
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diddl2007
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quote:
the Daughter of Zion
Your point of view about Israel like the horn Iron is interesting...
And me too, I thought that Jerusalem was a daughter of Zion but I was looking for in the Bible and I discovered that in fact that Jerusalem is Zion and daughter of Zion is people of Israel, is Jewish people...
1 king 8:1
Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto king Solomon in Jerusalem, that they might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.
2 Kings 14:20
And they brought him on horses: and he was buried at Jerusalem with his fathers in the city of David.
We see also that Jerusalem is called "city of David"
Then, if Jerusalem is Zion, who is her daughter ?
2 kings 19:21
This is the word that the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin the daughter of Zion hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.
Jerusalem is Zion and you can see that the daughter of Zion is also called the daughter of Jerusalem, so if the daughter of Zion is also the daughter of Jerusalem, Jerusalem cannot be the daughter of Zion.
I think that the people of Israel is called the daughter of Jérusalem.
And I don't think if the daughter of Zion is Israel that the Horn Iron for the daughter of Zion who is the people of Israel is the Horn Iron for the people of Israel.
Micah 4:11/13
Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion. But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.
< Message edited by diddl2007 -- 8/24/2008 11:51:13 AM >
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RE: The Horn Iron - 8/26/2008 3:03:55 AM
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A_Name_Written
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Scripture uses language such as DAUGHTER, SISTER, and MOTHER, for Sodom, Babylon, Samaria, Jerusalem, and Egypt. My GUESS is that the language is purposefully using generational relationships to designate these cities and nations in terms of time. Meaning, when scripture calls Samaria the elder sister of Jerusalem, it is telling us that the city of Samaria is older than the city of Jerusalem (Samaria existed before Jerusalem). It follows then that the Daughters of Babylon and Jerusalem are simply future Babylon and future Jerusalem, that is to say, future from the prophet's time perspective. Hence, there would technically be many daughters, but in every case, there can only be ONE final daughter.
In scripture, people are simply referred to as:
people,
sons and daughters,
congregation,
remnant,
and in the NT as, sheep, blades of grass, and tares
Lastly, buildings and streets without people is called a heap, and/or an uninhabitable desolation. Only when it is inhabitted with people is it called a city. To say the daughter of a city is the people of that city is to say the daughter of a people is the people of that people, which, oddly enough, is both true and false; true in that a daughter of a city/nation/people is simply a reference to a future generation of that same city/nation/people; false in that the way you are applying it, you are not seperating the implied generational link between mother and daughter, but are instead removing that link, calling the mother buildings and streets, and the daughter the inhabitants of the buildings and streets. (The seed of an apple yields another apple, not an orange)
< Message edited by A_Name_Written -- 8/26/2008 3:14:03 AM >
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RE: The Horn Iron - 9/7/2008 8:31:02 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 350
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
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Shalom, friends.
I think you would get a better perspective on Scriptures like these if you had a better handle on the Jewish roots of your Christianity.
The daughter of Zion (bat Tsiown) is a female inhabitant of the mountain range of Tsiown in the Yerushalayim area of Isra'el. It's just another way of talking to the female inhabitants of Yerushalayim and the surrounding countryside.
Without a doubt, the passage in Micah 4:10-7:20 is prophetic about a time that has not completely been fulfilled, yet.
Micah 4:10-5:3
10 Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.
11 Now also many nations are gathered against thee, that say, Let her be defiled, and let our eye look upon Zion.
12 But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.
13 Arise and thresh, O daughter of Zion: for I will make thine horn iron, and I will make thy hoofs brass: and thou shalt beat in pieces many people: and I will consecrate their gain unto the LORD, and their substance unto the Lord of the whole earth.
5:1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
KJV
So, what's being said? Simply this: Although Isra'el, particularly Y'hudah (Judah), was about to go into captivity to Bavel (Babylon) but that they would be preserved and ultimately brought back to the land. Remembering that chapter numbers and verse numbers were not in the original text, notice in "verse 2 of the next chapter" we have a prophecy of the first advent of Yeshua` (Jesus) with the warning that He would reject them until a future date at which time He brings back the remnant of His brothers. The rest of chapter 5 and chapters 6 & 7 go on to describe a glorious future for Isra'el.
They were being promised that, although they were about to go into captivity, God would bring them home again, ultimately plundering their captors. Although their king would be killed, YHVH's Messiah would be his replacement and that He would come from Beit-Lechem Efratah, the Bethlehem ("House of Bread") Ephrathah ("Fruitfulness") in the land of Y'hudah (Judah) where Rachel gave birth to Bin-Yamin (Benjamin), dying in childbirth.
Therefore, verse 13 is reminiscent of the prophecy of Psalm 2:
Ps 2:6-9
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
KJV
These verses will all be fulfilled in the future when God's Messiah Yeshua` comes again as the victorious King of Isra'el.
Retrobyter
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