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The Way of the Master - 3/7/2008 7:25:09 PM
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breanne
Posts: 151
Joined: 9/27/2007
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I wasn't sure where else to put this. If it can be someplace else, I apologize.
I wanted to get people's opinions on the ministry The Way of the Master started by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. Do you agree with their philosophy and their way of presenting the gospel and witnessing to people? I hear some Christians around my age that they don't like the way I have witnessed to people because I've used their method.
I've seen it work, and it seems like a logical method. Like a way Kirk has explained it on one of the basic training videos, he said... if a patient goes in to see a doctor, and the doctor says, "Oh, I've got a great cure for your disease. Let me give this to you." The patient is going to back off, and be like, "Hey doc, I don't have a disease. I don't want your cure for something I don't even have." That people aren't aware why they need Jesus. So if you point the mirror of the 10 commandments at them, and show them their disease, then you can give them the cure of the gospel to help save them. I've heard them use so many different ways of explaining their method, and they say it's the way Jesus witnessed to some people in the bible. For example, the woman at the well. He asked her to bring her husband, despite the fact that he knew she didn't have a husband and she was committing adultery with a married man.
So like I said, I see the logic in it. But I want to know what the rest of you think.
_____________________________
Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/7/2008 8:00:40 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 5363
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If you can witness to someone in a manner that presents God's Word and it reaches their heart, there's nothing wrong. I don't believe there is only one correct way to witness. Everyone is different.
_____________________________
<-- the prelude to a summer dust storm
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/8/2008 5:38:43 AM
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crystalblue
Posts: 361
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Ditto. But just don't try to convince them completly with your own logic and out of your own strength.
If you can talk them into it. Someone else can talk them out of it.
Witnessing has to be God led or it's kind of pointless. (Or at least God blessed.)
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/8/2008 2:23:05 PM
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breanne
Posts: 151
Joined: 9/27/2007
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^ Absolutely, I agree. They can be talked out of it as easily as they were talked into it.
God has actually used me a lot online, and I've witnessed to countless people online with the communities that I am around in. I'll be in a debate about heaven and hell, and I'll just type and type, and then after I'm done, realize.... I didn't even stop to think. Almost like God lead my fingers. LOL!
_____________________________
Previously known as:
flannel_pants /
"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses." - 1 Timothy 6:12
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/8/2008 10:12:21 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16563
Joined: 2/28/2005
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We do have a thread in TV/Radio about this, linked here
Moving this from Misc Topics to The Church
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/9/2008 10:59:46 AM
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drcain
Posts: 170
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX.
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I am a member of the Way of the Master School of Biblical Evangelism, so what I have to say is very opinionated.
This program is a very good, and Biblical, way to evangelize. What it does is teach a person effective ways to share the Gospel using the tools God has given us to use.
If you have ever wanted to share with someone but had stage fright, or weren't sure just how to kick off a conversation, then this program is the way to go. If the other person is saved, you will find out very quickly and they will not ever be offended by this.
But...
Like with all other tools, harm can be done as well. You probably have heard the term "Bible bashing" when concerning the topic of sharing, or "turn and burn" styles of preaching. This can occure with the WOTM as well. Before you jump up in someones face with the Law, learn how to handle them.... in love. 
What you want to observe as Ray and Kirk are street witnessing is their non-confronting way of doing it. Much of the leading up to what is shown is edited out because of viewing time constraints. When witnessing to a stranger, you will approach the topic different than with a relative or close friend. But the foundational methods are the same. Get the hearer comfortable and non-threatened. Allow them to open up to you with their own ideas and thoughts. Folks love to share what they know and think, when you ask them for that they open right up.
Always keep the object of your goal in focus, don't get sidetracked on the many tangents the enemy has placed in that persons way. Look at some of the videos on their web site. Really look at the one where Kirk is witnessing to some tough guys at the beach, some who were drunk. God equips us with the most powerful weapon ever known to go out and defeat evil. Kirk uses this weapon effectively. I think that this was one of Kirk's first street witnessings.
If street preaching is not your calling but you just need some tools to use in your situations then this way will work too. I highly recommend this program.
_____________________________
David
What? Me worry?
Matthew 6:34
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/9/2008 7:11:47 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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It's a great program and God bless Ray and Kirk for what they do.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/11/2008 12:01:12 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
Joined: 8/6/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: breanne
I wasn't sure where else to put this. If it can be someplace else, I apologize.
I wanted to get people's opinions on the ministry The Way of the Master started by Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron. Do you agree with their philosophy and their way of presenting the gospel and witnessing to people? I hear some Christians around my age that they don't like the way I have witnessed to people because I've used their method.
I've seen it work, and it seems like a logical method. Like a way Kirk has explained it on one of the basic training videos, he said... if a patient goes in to see a doctor, and the doctor says, "Oh, I've got a great cure for your disease. Let me give this to you." The patient is going to back off, and be like, "Hey doc, I don't have a disease. I don't want your cure for something I don't even have." That people aren't aware why they need Jesus. So if you point the mirror of the 10 commandments at them, and show them their disease, then you can give them the cure of the gospel to help save them. I've heard them use so many different ways of explaining their method, and they say it's the way Jesus witnessed to some people in the bible. For example, the woman at the well. He asked her to bring her husband, despite the fact that he knew she didn't have a husband and she was committing adultery with a married man.
So like I said, I see the logic in it. But I want to know what the rest of you think.
I don't believe it's the most affective way in leading people to Christ, but Paul said we should be happy that others are preaching the gospel, so the way doesn't matter. I think simply being Christ's love to this world speaks greater and not trying to convince people that they're sinners.
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/11/2008 10:34:07 AM
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Lycea
Posts: 197
Joined: 6/18/2007
From: Kansas
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I agree with SD 456,
This style of evangelism is not what I am comfortable using because of my personality and ministry style. That does not make it wrong, just not for me. Paul says we are to be all things to all people so that we might win some. This method used in the right context is just what some people need to see the truth.
To make the claim that all people will respond in a positive manner is going too far, but so is denying that the style has value. It is founded on biblical principles and truth, so if it is a comfortable method for you and you use it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, more power to you in Christ.
_____________________________
It all boils down to this: Love God, Love Each Other.
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/11/2008 12:07:28 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I don't believe it's the most affective way in leading people to Christ, but Paul said we should be happy that others are preaching the gospel, so the way doesn't matter. I think simply being Christ's love to this world speaks greater and not trying to convince people that they're sinners.
What?!
How would anyone know they are sick and in need of THE Physician if they do not know they are sick?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/11/2008 1:13:46 PM
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sue244
Posts: 323
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
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I love way of the Master and I get the way of the master radio podcast. I love Todd Friell on there, he is not afraid to say how thing really are. I wish all of them at Way of the Master all the best.
_____________________________
"It is a remarkable fact that all the heresies which have arisen in the Christian Church have had a decided tendency to 'dishonor God and to flatter man.'"
Spurgen
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RE: The Way of the Master - 3/14/2008 8:54:50 AM
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gaylel1
Posts: 1499
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southern California, the land of Fruit and nuts...
Status: online
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Thank god this child star grew up and chosen the way of the Lord. Last night I saw reality programs on VH1 and people like Jeff Conaway, Erin Moran and others grew "old" and lonely before our eyes. Oh yeah, many of these child stars had addictions--yes we need to pray for them.
But when I saw the preview of "The Way of The Master " (Kirk was hosting PTL last night), thank God there was a child star who grew up and the Lord is using his life in a mighty way.
Those are the stories which I love to hear.
_____________________________
Remembering Topher...
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: The Way of the Master - 5/26/2008 10:10:04 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5383
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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Just wanted to express how great this ministry is and it is always a good use of time when I happen to catch it on the air.
God bless them.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Way of the Master - 5/26/2008 7:22:08 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1496
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I think simply being Christ's love to this world speaks greater and not trying to convince people that they're sinners.
"Paid for by Joel Osteen Ministries"
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: The Way of the Master - 5/26/2008 7:30:43 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2019
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I think simply being Christ's love to this world speaks greater and not trying to convince people that they're sinners.
Any Christian who fails to proclaim that all men are sinners are derelict in their duty. Without a conviction of sin, there's nothing to be saved from.
John 9:41 (NIV)
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: The Way of the Master - 5/27/2008 1:36:56 PM
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P31W
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Kirk Cameron was on network TV this morning....one of the morning news/talk shows. He was allowed to give his testimoney. It was wonderful.
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/2/2008 7:14:42 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1121
Joined: 1/10/2008
From: Great Plains, Kansas
Status: online
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I really like The Way of the Master programs & videos. Before I moved to California, I had purchased many of their DVDs & thought the presentation was very well done.
As some have said, it isn't their style. Simply giving one's testimony can be effective as well.
As long as God's Word is going forth so that others can see the error of their ways & become right with Christ--it's great. I like this program MUCH better than many of the programs that use scare tactics (ie: Hell's Flames, Heaven Gates). I know it can work...but is the person really making a true conversion if s/he was scared out of his/her mind when they made the decision? Are they going to stick with it?
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/3/2008 11:15:01 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 539
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From: Rocky mountain way
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There are indeed a lot of ways to witness, and WOTM is an awesome primer IMO.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/4/2008 10:20:54 AM
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Ninjaearth
Posts: 35
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Washington, D.C. - Maryland
Status: offline
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I would agree that the approach that Kirk and Ray are using is biblical. In fact, it's so biblical that it seems like it is a bit harsh. But they are following an example of what Jesus actually did in the gospels.
Recently, in taking Gospels and Acts, my class looked at the account in which Jesus witnessed to the rich young ruler. Jesus told Him that no one was good but God but then to gain eternal life, He told him to keep the law. He gave the law dealing with his fellow man first and then reinforced that with his relationship to God. In doing this, the ryr (rich young ruler) turned away sad because he had a great deal of wealth that he didn't want to give up for the sake of inheriting eternal life. Now, although my professor goes a bit more into this part, I think the story speaks for itself (in lue of the context that Jesus provides afterwards). This method of witnessing works and it helps the discussion stay on the subject of the gospel and not all the other stuff; I have had cases where they were some who went off on a tangent, but got back on track by reinforcing the law of God. Together, using Romans and Revelation, (which is what I use) helping the person realize that they are helpless and can't save themselves and are doomed forever with eternal suffering helps to effectively communicate the truth that Jesus Christ alone can save them and has provided the way for their salvation: all they need to do is repent and put their trust in Him. Now, of course (as many of you have also said) it also depends on the people (or person). I know on an anime site I'm apart of, this technique doesn't really help because I"m dealing with plenty of atheists and evolutionists who are extremely hostile to the Word of God (going as far discarding any logical information that even a reasonable logical person would agree with) and refuse to even "consider" the possibility of God's Word as being true. (Please keep them in your prayers graciously). So, I've had to use other approaches to talk to them, but in other cases I imagine this technique actually works. I know my friend in Kansas uses this method alot (he has done so recently to over 200 people) and it's amazing how God has used this to effectively reached their lives.
I know this, though, this method isn't for everyone, but honestly for a biblical way to evangelize, I truly believe that this is the best (since most of this comes straight out of the biblical model found in the gospels). If Jesus used it and it worked for Him, I am convinced that would should consider the uses of this method and in love use it our advantage to tell people the truth about their standings with God and their need for His saving grace.
_____________________________
"Spiritual Soldier Ninjaearth"
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/5/2008 5:59:46 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1237
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I don't believe it's the most affective way in leading people to Christ, but Paul said we should be happy that others are preaching the gospel, so the way doesn't matter. I think simply being Christ's love to this world speaks greater and not trying to convince people that they're sinners.
Then again, Scripture says:
Ps 19:7
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul...
Ray and Kirk have the right idea, and I really like a lot of their tracts, the million dollar bill being my most-used.
What I hate about their ministry and approach is that it comes of like selling something on the shopping channel.
I’ve heard Kirk speak and he basically parrots Ray 90% of the time.
Using the law (ie-ten commandments) to show someone they are going to be judged a sinner IS Biblical. Preaching damnation as a result of unforgiven sin IS Biblical. Memorizing a “script” and using it on folks is not reliance on God’s Word and the Holy Spirit, but rather it is rooted in the flesh.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/5/2008 7:02:15 PM
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manwe
Posts: 236
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Use of the Law in evangelism is a very effective and biblical means of giving witness to Jesus as both Savior and Lord.
Remember - the principle behind it is "God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble."
So it a person is hurting and open to the gospel one will likely not use the WOM method per se but rather show grace and point them to Christ.
However, if one is proud and thinks he or she does not need salvation then of course we use the WOM method by showing them the Law and its insufficiency to save and point them to Christ.
So you may not want to use it every time, but instead depend on the situation and leading of the Spirit.
At least, that is how I see it.
_____________________________
Zephaniah 3:17 reads, "The LORD your God is with you, he is mighty to save. He will take great delight in you, he will quiet you with his love, he will rejoice over you with singing."
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/6/2008 9:59:23 AM
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Ninjaearth
Posts: 35
Joined: 2/16/2008
From: Washington, D.C. - Maryland
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I do believe that the third season is now airing on TBN and other stations, but I haven't seen them yet. The fourth season has been produced but it hasn't aired yet and I think they're still working on getting things ready to air after the new season. I will most likely wait until it's released on DVD to get it though; come to think of it, I don't have the first two seasons, but I"ve seen the bulk of the first season (especially the firefighter episode). I am looking forward to the 4th season, in which they shot thirteen locations in thirteen days (or something like that). Plus, they'll talking about other religions; I am curious to know how they used their approaches to those in other religions, cause it would surely help learning those techniques when dealing with them on a personal basis.
_____________________________
"Spiritual Soldier Ninjaearth"
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RE: The Way of the Master - 6/9/2008 10:29:21 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1933
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
I love way of the Master and I get the way of the master radio podcast. I love Todd Friell on there, he is not afraid to say how thing really are. I wish all of them at Way of the Master all the best.
This is the first time that I am listening to the podcast, since there was something on last week regarding the "Lakeland Revival."
This is just my first impression: I really don't like Todd Friell's style, which IMO is very confrontational and aggressive. It's not Rush Limbaugh, more like Michael Savage!
The very first podcast that I listened to, in the Q and A in the beginning, Todd said that he supported spanking teenagers. I don't want to get into that discussion in detail since we have a one-stop for spanking in parenting, but IMO his approach toward the topic was really disturbing.
_____________________________
less junk, more Jesus
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