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What do you consider it is to "love the world"? - 8/8/2008 12:13:26 PM
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justajerk
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There are some varied views expressed here and, in light of that I wonder how each of you address/view/deal with - 1 John 2:15?
"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
< Message edited by justajerk -- 8/8/2008 12:29:39 PM >
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"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 12:38:05 PM
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mvic
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I think we should be careful how we interpret the word "Love".
I believe John is saying here that if we spend our time and effort building treasures and fortunes for ourselves and neglect God then , to all intense and purpose, so too will He neglect us.
Jesus told many parables on the same subject. The farmer who planned to build more barns to keep his abundant crop of wheat - not realising that that very night he was to die. The rich man with Lazarus the poor man at his doorstep. Don't make a fortune here on earth but in Heaven where no thief will get to it etc ...
Years ago, my father said to me: Do not concern yourself with things on this earth, but with things in Heaven above.
No doubt he was paraphrasing 1John 2:15.
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 1:20:00 PM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
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Jesus said we are to forsake all and follow Him. Dwell on this until you see it for the black and white statement of reality that it is. Then you will understand "love not the world".
When you are filled with the Spirit, every decision, action, and thought will be brought into the obedience of Jesus alone. No worldly consideration will enter in. It is a discipline of a disciple.
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Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 1:28:45 PM
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justajerk
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So... Is it only treasure and fortune that we should be wary of?
How about the individual who really loves his glass of wine and a steak? Or, that fantastic football game?
How do these fit into forsaking all?
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 1:28:46 PM
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LCannon
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'Love'(in this context)is an 'anticipation unto His obedience' rather then love of life, liberty and the fact God 'loves' all His creation. However, mankind is in an unique circumstance; he(they)will choose whether he remains in his arrogance or will come into His obedience by appropriating Jesus' sacrifice and Victory.
_____________________________
"I pray that You dispose of my health, my sickness,
my life and my death for Your Glory."(Blaise Pascal)
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 3:20:49 PM
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atruefaith
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quote:
Years ago, my father said to me: Do not concern yourself with things on this earth, but with things in Heaven above.
That advice, rooted in Scripture, is pretty much universally acknowledged. The question however seems to be over what does "concern yourself with the things of earth and heaven" really mean?
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A blog about authentic faith...
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 3:24:03 PM
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atruefaith
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quote:
However, mankind is in an unique circumstance; he(they)will choose whether he remains in his arrogance or will come into His obedience by appropriating Jesus' sacrifice and Victory.
Hmm. How do you appropriate (take possession) of a gift that must be given to you.
_____________________________
A blog about authentic faith...
www.atruefaith.com
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 4:11:00 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
quote:
Years ago, my father said to me: Do not concern yourself with things on this earth, but with things in Heaven above.
That advice, rooted in Scripture, is pretty much universally acknowledged. The question however seems to be over what does "concern yourself with the things of earth and heaven" really mean?
IMHO concerning yourself with the things of earth means that when bad things happen we tend to try to figure them out ourselves rather than have faith that our Heavenly Father can and will handle it. Rather than pray first and foremost, we work with our budget, we work overtime, etc. to try to get things straight in a financial crisis. God says, "turn to me first." That doesn't mean that He won't tell us to work with our budget, but turning to Him will take care of the problem much faster than believing we can. Most likely God will tell us to do something we don't want to do. Obedience will show that we are seeking His kingdom and not our own.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 4:26:41 PM
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mvic
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Thanx Armydude,
You got in just before me; and said what I would have liked to have said, only better.
In our lives, my father and I have had many difficult times; (my father more than I), and at all times God was there for us, ready to help.
I didn't realise it at the time, but my father had more Faith in God than he let on.
Concerning oneself with things in Heaven above is knowing, for sure, that He is there for you. And going to Him first, rather than trying on your own.
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 4:31:14 PM
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justajerk
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quote:
IMHO concerning yourself with the things of earth means that when bad things happen we tend to try to figure them out ourselves rather than have faith that our Heavenly Father can and will handle it. When bad things happen to what... the things we love here on earth?
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 4:37:09 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: justajerk
quote:
IMHO concerning yourself with the things of earth means that when bad things happen we tend to try to figure them out ourselves rather than have faith that our Heavenly Father can and will handle it. When bad things happen to what... the things we love here on earth?
When bad things happen to us... In other words, when we lose a job, get sick, get in a car accident, etc. people tend to try to figure things out when God says, "Come to Me."
I lost my job in April, and I can say that God has been faithful to me. Everything we've needed we've gotten just on time while I attend college. I had tried to get into college on my own earlier, but nothing ever worked out before now. Why? Because my wife and I are going to Him first. He takes care of these things. He brings us the things we need through natural means, but there's no mistake about it. It's Him, not us.
_____________________________
You can choose to be pitiful. Or you can choose to be powerful. But you cannot choose to be both.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 5:08:30 PM
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mvic
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Armydude is right.
When bad things happen the first temptation is to blame God: "Thanx for nothing ... you've let me down once again !!!"
But if you wait and think, and instead say: "Thank you. Thank you for being in control. I don't like what's happening to me right now. I don't like it one bit. But I trust you. I know you'll see me through it to better times. I know it and I trust you."
You don't always feel like saying these things; especially when things are really bad. But try it - through gritted teeth if you must. Try it and trust Him.
He'll take care of you - as He has done with me; many times.
_____________________________
Christian words of comfort at http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
Welcome to my Blog
MEI VITA INDICO CHRISTUS
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 5:34:30 PM
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RJR_fan
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"The world" is that frame of reference and system of thought that declares independence from the Person, Word, Son, and Work of God.
We sacrifice to please that which we love. Jimmie Hendrix would climax his stage act by pouring lighter fluid over a guitar, and igniting it, as a sacrificial offering unto his fans.
Christians tithe to anchor their hearts in the Kingdom of God -- for where our treasure is, there will our hearts be, also.
Alas, all too many of us also "tithe" something far more precious than money to (and I quote)
quote:
... that frame of reference and system of thought that declares independence from the Person, Word, Son, and Work of God.
Could it be that our love for God is impaired and impugned when we offer up our children on the altars of secular humanism for 30 hours a week, 40 weeks a year?
_____________________________
The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 5:38:14 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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Everyone has a god or THE GOD in their life. Even if you are a Christian there is always something that controls your life, it is either God or the world. I think "love the world", is talking about what is in control of your life, work, games, partying, shopping, sports, etc etc. It is in our makeup to be obsessed with something and we as Christians it should be God. So i think "love" is talking about whats before God. I mean there is nothing wrong with shopping/sports/video games etc but if that is ahead of God then that is your "love". Also "love of the world" is just things that are sinful no matter where they are in your life; drugs, adultery, hate, etc etc.
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 6:13:43 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
"The world" is that frame of reference and system of thought that declares independence from the Person, Word, Son, and Work of God.
Amen to this statement. We so easily define 'the world' by the attractions others are snared by. . . and that makes for pretty good pharisees, no, really good pharisees. So when we define 'the world' as alcohol, tobacco, dancing, cards, gambling, etc, and we avoid those, the love of the Father is in us. (wrong, but) That's what the pharisaical thought says and that thought abounds today.
But what if we are honest and look at ourselves and confess our own 'worldiness'? Then and only then have we come into the light. And then and only then can Jesus begin to deal with our 'world'. Jesus told many "but you will not come to me". They would not come into the light, be honest, be real, so that they could see what their 'world' was made of.
So what is our love of the world? Anything that is independent of God---it can even be our church, our Bible study, our doctrine, or our faith. We know and He's not going to mess with what we know. But He usually challenges us through other people.
Jesus rocked the 'world' of the people who thought they knew God in His day. They thought they knew and were not interested in listening, learning, and especially in seeing themselves and confessing their sin.
So loving the world is self love and that love clings to those things that protect you, keep you comfortable and in the know. Self love loves darkness. . . and that's the world.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 6:42:22 PM
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justajerk
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quote:
"The world" is that frame of reference and system of thought that declares independence from the Person, Word, Son, and Work of God.
1 John 2: 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world— the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.
I am trying to come up with a way of connecting your definition with V.16 (I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just trying to put it in a way that is a little more understandable to jerks like me).
quote:
They would not come into the light, be honest, be real, so that they could see what their 'world' was made of.
I thought it was because their works were evil?
quote:
So loving the world is self love and that love clings to those things that protect you, keep you comfortable and in the know. Self love loves darkness. . . and that's the world.
Ultimately yes (Amen brother). Do we somehow justify these things in order that we can have "the best of both worlds"
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 7:02:52 PM
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LCannon
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appropriate='claim for oneself' the blood/sacrifice(and Victory don't forget that!)of Jesus and the inheritance that goes with it.
_____________________________
"I pray that You dispose of my health, my sickness,
my life and my death for Your Glory."(Blaise Pascal)
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 7:52:44 PM
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SonInMe1
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The world...is that which seeks to seperate you from God.
Its not the same for everyone.
The battle against the world is NOT obediance. Its loving God more than the world. Through that love..and ONLY in that love can there be victory over the world.
Legalism is a terrible thing. Its a worship of sin in a backhanded way....putting sin so prevelant in our relationship with God to even overshadow that relationship. Sin, sin sin, sin, sin sin sin sin sin sin.
Its not realy about sin...ya know? Its about God through His Son and our love, which came from God, for God.
If I have a beer...I could be worshipping the world...or not.
If I send my kids to public school...GASP, what horror!!!!!!!....it could be worshipping the world...or not.
If the world was so easily defined then it would have been. Life...just isn't that way. That...
is why we need God.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/8/2008 11:54:30 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
quote:
They would not come into the light, be honest, be real, so that they could see what their 'world' was made of.
I thought it was because their works were evil?
Not true. It was because they were satisfied with 'righteousness' as they had defined it. Jesus redefined it and they weren't interested. Their works were fine. The Apostle Paul who was a Pharisee was described in this way "as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless". Phil 3: 6 That certainly makes it clear that his works of righteousness were right on. Yet he was lost. John's gospel tells us that it was because they would not be truthful---they would not come into the light. They wanted man's glory (the good old boy, pat each other on the back glory) rather than to know Jesus.
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/9/2008 1:03:56 AM
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justajerk
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
quote:
They would not come into the light, be honest, be real, so that they could see what their 'world' was made of.
I thought it was because their works were evil?
Not true. It was because they were satisfied with 'righteousness' as they had defined it. Jesus redefined it and they weren't interested. Their works were fine. The Apostle Paul who was a Pharisee was described in this way "as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless". Phil 3: 6 That certainly makes it clear that his works of righteousness were right on. Yet he was lost. John's gospel tells us that it was because they would not be truthful---they would not come into the light. They wanted man's glory (the good old boy, pat each other on the back glory) rather than to know Jesus.
I was referring to this:
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
But this really doesn't address (at least not directly) my original question. This is talking about the unregenerate, as opposed to 1John2 where he is addressing believers and warning them not to love the world and the things in it.
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/9/2008 2:22:43 AM
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GraceBro
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The answer to your question is in the verses following verse 15:
"For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever." 1 John 2:16-17
Basically, if we are trying to find unconditional love, acceptance, meaning and purpose to life, in anything other than Chris Jesus, we are loving the world. It is pretty simple.
Grace and Peace
_____________________________
www.livinggodministries.net
http://96toLife.blogspot.com
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/9/2008 3:45:16 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1834
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quote:
I was referring to this:
John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
But this really doesn't address (at least not directly) my original question. This is talking about the unregenerate, as opposed to 1John2 where he is addressing believers and warning them not to love the world and the things in it.
That's the same scripture I was thinking of as I posted---we're saying the same thing but coming at it differently. Darkness hides and that shows their unwillingness to be truthful. So the evil deeds being hidden is true but it is their lack of truthfulness, unwilling to come to the light to show what their 'world' is made up of. Does that make sense?
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/9/2008 7:59:27 AM
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justajerk
Posts: 124
Joined: 4/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GraceBro
The answer to your question is in the verses following verse 15:
"For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever." 1 John 2:16-17
Basically, if we are trying to find unconditional love, acceptance, meaning and purpose to life, in anything other than Chris Jesus, we are loving the world. It is pretty simple.
Grace and Peace
Thanks Bro,
Here's the crux.... When you look at the christian culture of today and apply vs. 16-17 as you have described them; simple as it is...
How are we/you/I doing?
< Message edited by justajerk -- 8/9/2008 8:08:34 AM >
_____________________________
"Men think all things would be very glorious, if they might be done according to their mind. Perhaps, indeed, they would -- but with their glory, not the glory of God." - John Owen
monergism
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RE: What do you consider it is to "love the world&... - 8/9/2008 10:28:49 AM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
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Joined: 7/3/2008
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As I said, dwell on the reality and depth of Jesus' command to forsake ALL. That includes another powerful command that He makes:
Luke 14:26 - If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Event the best things in life, the most precious, the closest, dearest friends and family, and even your religion, must be forsaken if you are called by God to ____.
This means that in response to the call, the ONLY consideration is to the Son of God formed in you, nothing/no one else.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
The world...is that which seeks to seperate you from God.
Its not the same for everyone.
The battle against the world is NOT obediance. Its loving God more than the world. Through that love..and ONLY in that love can there be victory over the world.
Legalism is a terrible thing. Its a worship of sin in a backhanded way....putting sin so prevelant in our relationship with God to even overshadow that relationship. Sin, sin sin, sin, sin sin sin sin sin sin.
Its not realy about sin...ya know? Its about God through His Son and our love, which came from God, for God.
If I have a beer...I could be worshipping the world...or not.
If I send my kids to public school...GASP, what horror!!!!!!!....it could be worshipping the world...or not.
If the world was so easily defined then it would have been. Life...just isn't that way. That...
is why we need God.
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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