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jeremiah 8:8 - 6/14/2008 8:23:08 PM
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jcoke
Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2008
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8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
does this mean we are'nt to trust the bible as the actual word of God?
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RE: jeremiah 8:8 - 6/14/2008 9:48:01 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1228
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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The scribes(and by proxy Israel's)were using scripture to justify their own demise. Verse 5 says, ' Why then has this people[Israel] turned away in perpetual backsliding? They hold fast to deceit; they refuse to return.' and the scribes were facilitating Israel's apostasy.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 6/14/2008 10:03:53 PM >
_____________________________
"I will behold Thy face for I shall be satisfied when I awake to Thy likeness."
(Psalm 17:15)
"To see God and to be like Him; what more can I desire? I believe it and I expect it."
(CH Spurgeon)
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RE: jeremiah 8:8 - 6/15/2008 1:53:26 AM
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BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
Joined: 5/10/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jcoke
8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
does this mean we are'nt to trust the bible as the actual word of God?
To get understanding form scripture you need to get the context of the verse (recommendation is twenty verses before and twenty verses after the one you are trying to understand assuming that there are that many in the book...not chapter, book. so you understand some background of what is being said.
"Why then has this people, Jerusalem, Turned away in continual apostasy? They hold fast to deceit, They refuse to return. "I have listened and heard, They have spoken what is not right; No man repented of his wickedness, Saying, 'What have I done?' Everyone turned to his course, Like a horse charging into the battle. "Even the stork in the sky Knows her seasons; And the turtledove and the swift and the thrush Observe the time of their migration; But My people do not know The ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. "The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, And what kind of wisdom do they have? (Jeremiah 8:5-9)
We don't need quite that many for this one.
Jeremiah is berating the scribes for coloring their interpretation of scripture, teaching idolatry and unscriptural behavior behaviour instead of righteousness.
Jesus did the same sort of thing:
"Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. "For Moses said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH'; but you say, 'If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),' you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that." (Mark 7:8-13)
They hadn't altered scripture...they "merely" taught it in such a way that they could do what they wanted to do no matter what scripture said. Some people still do that today.
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: jeremiah 8:8 - 6/15/2008 11:17:51 AM
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eschatologist
Posts: 57
Joined: 1/6/2008
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It doesn't mean we're not to trust the word of God. The scribes and pharisees would write down their own interpretaions of the law in order to justify themselves and there own sins. This is what it means when it says the "lying pen of the scribes have handled the law falsely". They justified themselves while condemning others. This is the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus exposed, when He came along, and why the scribes and Pharisees got so angry with Him that they wanted to kill Him.
"Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and annis and cumin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone." (Mathew 23:23)
"Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." (Mathew 23:27-28)
Jesus talking to the scribes and Pharisees:"If ye were Abraham's children ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God. This did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your Father. Then said they to Him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God Neither came I of myself but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speach? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the Father of it." (John 8: 39-44)
So it's not the actual word of God that we shouldn't trust, but the scribe's misinterpretation of the word of God that we shouldn't trust.
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RE: jeremiah 8:8 - 6/16/2008 3:46:17 PM
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Resurrected
Posts: 22
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jcoke
8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
does this mean we are'nt to trust the bible as the actual word of God?
No, it does not mean we can't trust the Bible.
The simple fact is that Jeremiah is not talking about 'lying scribes' ..
Jeremiah 8:8 (KJV)
How do ye say,
We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it;
the pen of the scribes is in vain.
In vain .. for naught ..
This is true lingusitically and contextually and is the historic Hebraic exegesis and must be in for proper translation. The rebellious hearts were not receiving the word of God.
Look at the context...
Jeremiah 8:5-9
Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding?
they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright:
no man repented him of his wickedness, saying,
What have I done? every one turned to his course,
as the horse rusheth into the battle.
Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times;
and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming;
but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
How do ye say,
We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us?
Lo, certainly in vain made he it;
the pen of the scribes is in vain.
The wise men are ashamed,
they are dismayed and taken:
lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD;
and what wisdom is in them?
The word of the LORD comes through the Tanach, copied by the scribes.
The word of the LORD is pure and holy.
Their pen is in vain because the people of Jerusalem refuse to return,
do not repent, are turned to their own course and know not the judgment
of the LORD. They reject the word of the LORD.
The make naught God's word through their rebellion.
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