|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 3:44:55 PM
|
|
|
slushie
Posts: 2016
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline
|
I agree with Sue.
Just remember, don't focus on the SIN problem. It's not good to feel good about yourself regarding sin. But it's not good to beat yourself on the head over and over again, either.
_____________________________
Testify to Love
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 4:03:30 PM
|
|
|
stamper_ben
Posts: 10953
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
|
I just read a blog entry from a former pastor dealing with wounds. Thomas had to be shown His in order to believe. It is thought that even in eternity Jesus will still bear those scars forever. Will we too wear ours? There are our scars from self-inflicted wounds, scars that were given us by others, and most important are the scars from the wounding we went through when we were broken to be allowed to be reformed in His image.
Just some food for thought...
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 4:12:23 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
I see, though, a resistance to allowing people to openly express the type of perspective I've been expressing. I've encountered this resistance in other contexts over the last 20 years, and I think it's troubling.
What's really God's priority: Getting my chair fixed or dealing with my character?
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 4:15:46 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I just read a blog entry from a former pastor dealing with wounds. Thomas had to be shown His in order to believe. It is thought that even in eternity Jesus will still bear those scars forever. Will we too wear ours? There are our scars from self-inflicted wounds, scars that were given us by others, and most important are the scars from the wounding we went through when we were broken to be allowed to be reformed in His image.
Just some food for thought...
Well sad, Ben, and I think that's excellent food for thought!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 4:55:42 PM
|
|
|
groom52
Posts: 343
Joined: 2/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Ahh...God cares about our character...and want us to develop a character that is more Christlike.
So what does He do. Well, sometimes a guy like me gets to teach adult Sunday School for 4 Sundays and it goes rather well. Better than it ever had before. Good points made. Fairly good guiding of the participation of those in the class. Thank you, Lord. I did a pretty good job, didn't I?
Ahh...did I have something to say about humility in that class?
Then, just the other day, did I really blow it in a situation with my darling DebbieLynne. Ouch. Talk about humility. One really good way to get to want it more is to humiliate myself.
Godly Christian character...that's what God is going to bring us to have, and he'll let us get hurt (even let us hurt ousevelves) if that's what we need to develop it.
Thankfully, when I do blow it, Deb is able to fogive me. And as it happens, fogiveness is another aspect of Christian character God wants us to have. But I'd really rather not be the one giving her cause to need to forgive somebody. 
_____________________________
John (groom52), the very happy hubby of Deb (bride48)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 5:26:42 PM
|
|
|
slushie
Posts: 2016
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline
|
Dealing w/character, then.
_____________________________
Testify to Love
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 6:27:29 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
It just so happens, I agree. So, where you think I'm "beating myself up," I'm really just putting the focus in its rightful place. The Lord allowed Job's suffering as a test of his character. I'm sure Job really wanted his children resurrected from the dead, his flocks replaced, and his sores healed (and maybe for his wife to go mute  ) but God was getting at something deeper in Job.
I've been reading Paul's prayers lately. For the most part, he doesn't pray about circumstances. He prays for spiritual maturity in those he loves. And he views his own suffering as 1) a way to build up the church and 2) a way to share in the fellowship of Christ's sufferings (and thus become more like Christ).
When people express the things I expressed earlier today, I'm not sure it's right to tell them they're "beating themselves up." First of all, that may not be true. I don't believe it's true in my case. Quite the opposite; for the first time in 37 years, I'm willing to look at my situation from an eternal perspective. My wheelchair is not eternal. Pressure sores are not eternal. But my character is!
Secondly, when someone's finally willing to own up to personal responsibilty, it's really short-changing them to say, "Don't beat yourself up." If they wallow in bemoaning their sinfulness, that's different. But I hardly think I was wallowing! Usually, it's more productive to agree with the person about the shortcoming, and challange them to be Christlike.
Having said that, I also believe that until a person is ready to make a connection between the circumstances and what God's trying to teach them, it's best to validate the feelings and offter comfort. At that point, the person's just hurting. But one she peeks through that hurt to say, "Okay, what's the eternal perspective?", I believe you should applaud her efforts to see how suffering can produce a Christlike character. Agape love rejoices in truth!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 6:32:41 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10493
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
I see, though, a resistance to allowing people to openly express the type of perspective I've been expressing. I've encountered this resistance in other contexts over the last 20 years, and I think it's troubling.
I can't speak for others, but sometimes what I hear from you makes me think that you think that when bad things happen, it's because God is punishing you for not being good enough. Maybe I am hearing you wrong, but that concerns me.
I totally get what you are saying. I just think there is a fine line between desiring to grow in God and being refined by the fire, and being overwhelmed by the enemy who desires to steal, kill and destroy. The devil wants to condemn. The Father wants to renew. The devil wants us to feel unworthy. The Father wants to make us worthy.
YOU will never be able to purify yourself and refine yourself. YOU will never be able to earn favor with God. God isn't calling you to. He is calling you to seek Him and His Kingdom and let HIM purify you and HIM refine you. I believe that we can get too introspective and focus on the dirt rather than focus on the the One who makes us clean. I'm not saying we should ignore sin, but it's not our job to clean up first in order to enter into God's presence. David cries out to God in the psalms and asks Him to "search my heart, renew a right spirit within me". He doesn't cry out and say "I'm searching my heart and finding gunk and I need to renew my right spirit". Note the difference: The first is focused on God, the second is focused on self.
I don't know that I'm explaining this well. I'm certainly not saying that God is up there ready to wave a wand and we just have to sit back and do nothing and He'll clean us up. What I'm saying is that we need to remain in Him and let go on the reigns and allow Him to refine us rather than us trying to burn the sin out on our own.
John 15:1-8 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
quote:
What's really God's priority: Getting my chair fixed or dealing with my character?
Do you believe that because the eternal is number one, that God doesn't care about the temporal? Or that God can care about both? I guess I don't see this as an either/or.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 6:47:11 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
Or is it that my asking the Lord to deal with my character makes you uncomfortable?
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 7:17:08 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10493
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
No. Trust me. I am a perfectionist and struggle with legalism in my own heart. I apologize if I was reading more into your posts than was there. Maybe I'm projecting some of myself into your posts. On the other hand, maybe what I think I'm seeing, is what God wants you to hear. I don't know. That's between you and God and not for me to say. I don't know your heart - only God does. As I said, I apologize if I am wrong. My heart is not to hurt you, but to encourage you and it's been on my heart for some time but I never felt it was my place to say anything - at the time.
As far as me: It took me a long time to stop condemning myself for things that God wasn't condemning me over. I thought I was single because there was something wrong with me. I thought I had stomach troubles because I wasn't good enough and didn't trust God enough. I thought my relationship troubles with my mom were because I was bad and if I was just good enough, she would be happy. Etc, etc, etc. It led to depression and pain and it wasn't from God. That wasn't to say that I was perfect in all those things - far from it! But those things weren't God's punishment for not being good enough. Those things weren't even caused by my sin. Those things were just life in a fallen world. What is the saying: "Life just isn't fair"?  When I finally started recognizing that, it was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders and I could finally be who God made me to be, to grow in the Lord in ways I never had, and to know Joy.
I'm not saying at all that we shouldn't look to what we can learn through trials. Please don't think that's what I'm saying. Scripture tells us that He works ALL things for our good. Some of my greatest times of growth have been during trials - for instance when I was unemployed for 7 months. It's just that the closer I grow to God, the more I see that He is my all: My Father & Disciplinarian, My Comforter & Counselor, My Hope and My Peace, My All. I also know that we all tend to gravitate more to one aspect of God and lose sight of the other aspects.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
42.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/27/2008 10:26:06 PM
|
|
|
humbleinspirit
Posts: 17853
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Both angles are true, I think. But Christians in the last 20 to 30 years have been conditioned to feel good about ourselves. Another aspect of Gospel Lite, I suppose. Paul called himself the chief of sinners. I'm not sure he wrote that appellation in a fit of despondency. I think, in sobriety, he recognized the seriousness of his sin.
I've heard it said that the closer we are to God, the more we see our sin in contrast to His holiness. In which case, I'm not as close to Him as I should be!
Did you hear that thing about pleasure on Focus On The Family this week? Its really got me thinking! I am gonna listen to it again and if it merits, I am gonna start a new thread on it.
On a lighter note, yes, Boston is a peninsula. It makes me quite concerned when Boston finally gets a big earthquake!  
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/28/2008 11:45:06 AM
|
|
|
cherish405
Posts: 32270
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: The Land Down Under
Status: offline
|
Deb, I hope that you can get your chair fixed. God may be teaching you something, I don't know, but in the meantime, it's not comfortable to be getting pressure sores either.
_____________________________
*** Gone crazy. Back soon. ***
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/28/2008 2:01:09 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
I had been typing a post, for the past hour (I type slowly, remember), trying to clarify what I was saying here yesterday, and the power went out for a second. I lost the entire post! It was well-written, too! 
Not sure when I'll be able to reconstuct it. More thunderstorms are expected this afternoon, so I may need to go offline and type it in Word so I can save it as I go along. Kristin, I do accept your apology--thanks. When I'm able to post my clarification, maybe you and Slushie will better see where I'm coming from. But it's lunch time now, so I'd better close.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/28/2008 4:53:13 PM
|
|
|
bride48
Posts: 5519
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
Status: offline
|
Last night, I gave serious thought to yesterday’s discussion in this thread, and I concluded that a few points need to be clarified. To start with, I believe we somehow combined two separate issues into one. I’m not sure how, but we’ve somehow confused the issue of experiencing chastisement for sin with allowing the Lord to use suffering as a way of conforming us to His image. The two concepts can sometimes overlap, but not always.
In the recent past, Kristin, I indeed have considered certain trials as being correction for specific sin. Now, going through those trials wasn’t necessary to atone for my sin! As you said yesterday, Christ already accomplished my complete atonement on the Cross, and there’s nothing I could possibly do to add to His work! It’s all His grace! But He knew I was at a point of needing to see that His grace didn’t nullify the seriousness of sin in my life. I wasn’t letting Him transform me. I needed His correction, and He brought it. Through His gracious discipline, He’s led me to repentance. It’s now a closed chapter.
I’ve never regarded this wheelchair situation as chastisement, however. The way I look at it, God is much bigger than all the bureaucrats and doctors who have been bungling my case, and He could have intervened at any time to get my wheelchair authorized. Yes, this is a fallen world, but He is not confined by that fallenness. He loves me! He knows I need the chair back to full function, and He cares about that need!
So I must conclude that, as my loving Father, there’s something deeper than getting my wheelchair fixed that He wants to do. This wheelchair will not follow me into eternity. But His refinement of my character as a result of this situation will!
As you know, I spent two years in a nursing home. Looking back, I believe He wanted to use that time to work His character into me. I resisted. Although I was a missionary at the time, I had no interest in reflecting His love apart from my job at the office and my interactions at church. I suffered much mistreatment at the nursing home, and I had no interest in whether or not the Lord wanted to use my situation to deal with me. He didn’t press the issue.
But here I am again, suffering through no fault of my own. And during this time, I “happen” to be reading Philippians and Colossians. And the Holy Spirit shows me that Paul rejoices in suffering because it increases his fellowship with Christ and makes him more like Him! Paul was not in prison because he’d sinned, remember. He didn’t think God was chastising him. But he did believe the Lord was working through his sufferings both to spread the Gospel and to conform him to Christ’s image!
Something I read yesterday in a commentary on Colossians 1 really brought that point home to me, and it made me think that maybe (or probably), the Lord wants me to emulate Paul’s attitude. That maybe this wheelchair situation is an opportunity, like the nursing home was, to let Him produce His character in me! Frankly, I’m excited that I can finally see suffering in this light. It shows progress since my nursing home days.
There more I should say, but I’ve been typing this post for about two hours. Hopefully it gives you a better understanding of what I’m trying to say.
Kristin, I have some comments on my struggles with singleness that your post brought to mind, but not now.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
And Paul Smith Is Such A Non-Descript Name... (my latest blog entry)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Here Comes The Bride - 6/28/2008 5:03:26 PM
|
|
|
slushie
Posts: 2016
Joined: 4/30/2006
Status: offline
|
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you!!!
_____________________________
Testify to Love
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
