|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/22/2005 9:23:26 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:
I am curious about the feelings of posters about reducing the figures of salvation history to the level of a chihuahua in the back of a car.
Sdaw, are you familiar with a "spit take?" You just caused one. 
Dear Ps103,
I am afraid that I am happily ignorant of the term. Would you explain? I await with trepidation.
On the Feast of St. Mary Magdelene
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/22/2005 9:35:38 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mattumanu
quote:
ORIGINAL: sdaw
While surfing throught the Christian radion channels, I heard an advertisment for some upcoming music event. As a promotional gimmick, they were giving away "Bible Bobbleheads." This week's featured gimmes were Daniel and Queen Esther. Considering the amount of outrage expressed around here concerning icons, I am curious about the feelings of posters about reducing the figures of salvation history to the level of a chihuahua in the back of a car.
On the Feast of St. Mary Magdelene
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
I'm not surprised. Didn't you know that Jesus and God are now commodities that are here to make us feel better and relieve some of the pain and misery of living in pittsburgh?*
But seriously, it seems like Jesus has become a brand name now. Like the Olsen twins or Oprah Winfrey.
*Special thanks to Bishop William Willoman.
Dear Mattumanu,
I've never heard of Bishop William Willoman, but if he doesn't like the pain and misery of living in Pittsburgh, let him come down South in the summertime and do penance for his sins. Then he can thank me for the shorter time he has to spend in Purgatory. It's hotter than heck here and drier than my sense of humor.
On the Feast of St. Mary Magdelene
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/22/2005 9:36:01 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11624
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
From Wikipedia:
quote:
A spit-take is a comedic technique where someone spits water out of their mouth when they react to a statement.
Danny Thomas is sometimes credited for popularizing the use of this in comedy.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spit-take"
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/22/2005 9:41:48 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
From Wikipedia:
quote:
A spit-take is a comedic technique where someone spits water out of their mouth when they react to a statement.
Danny Thomas is sometimes credited for popularizing the use of this in comedy.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spit-take"
Dear Ps103,
Sorta like squirting milk out of your nose at the supper table.
I had expected worse.
On the Feast of St. Mary Magdelene
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/22/2005 11:12:50 PM
|
|
|
Ezra
Posts: 1979
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: sdaw
I am curious about the feelings of posters about reducing the figures of salvation history to the level of a chihuahua in the back of a car.
Credit it to their ignorance, or perhaps their desire to make a buck.
Catholics, however, claim to be upholding the one, true, apostolic faith. Therefore there is no excuse for images, ikons, rosaries, or prayers to St. Jude or Mary.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 7:31:18 AM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: sdaw
I am curious about the feelings of posters about reducing the figures of salvation history to the level of a chihuahua in the back of a car.
Credit it to their ignorance, or perhaps their desire to make a buck.
Catholics, however, claim to be upholding the one, true, apostolic faith. Therefore there is no excuse for images, ikons, rosaries, or prayers to St. Jude or Mary.
Dear Ezra,
We offer no excuses. We are the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith. Y'all are the ones claiming. . .
On the Feast of St. Bridget of Sweden
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 12:16:36 PM
|
|
|
TheoJunkie
Posts: 2344
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: offline
|
I am a Reformed evangelical protestant.
As a former Catholic, and one who has read the Catechism and other official teachings on the issue, I vouch that the Catholic Church does not teach, imply, or advocate the worship of statues.
As with any denominational institution, there will be some individuals (including pastors) who do not "get it", and so, yes, there are some misguided Catholic individuals who worship statues (or, some variation thereof, such as thinking God/etc lives only inside the statue).
Toodles...
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 12:21:03 PM
|
|
|
TheoJunkie
Posts: 2344
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: offline
|
BTW... GoodMe
quote:
my "doctrine" is banned
You are not alone, so don't hold too much of a self pity party. I can't post my beliefs openly in many threads either.
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 1:06:34 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
I am a Reformed evangelical protestant.
As a former Catholic, and one who has read the Catechism and other official teachings on the issue, I vouch that the Catholic Church does not teach, imply, or advocate the worship of statues.
As with any denominational institution, there will be some individuals (including pastors) who do not "get it", and so, yes, there are some misguided Catholic individuals who worship statues (or, some variation thereof, such as thinking God/etc lives only inside the statue).
Toodles...
Dear TJ,
Thanks for a word of reason.
Free association here...
You are a Reformed evangelical protestant. Would a reformed evangelical protestant be Catholic, or at least Orthodox?
I'm done now.
On the Feast of St. Bridget of Sweden
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 6:18:38 PM
|
|
|
Mattumanu
Posts: 164
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
I am a Reformed evangelical protestant.
As a former Catholic, and one who has read the Catechism and other official teachings on the issue, I vouch that the Catholic Church does not teach, imply, or advocate the worship of statues.
As with any denominational institution, there will be some individuals (including pastors) who do not "get it", and so, yes, there are some misguided Catholic individuals who worship statues (or, some variation thereof, such as thinking God/etc lives only inside the statue).
Toodles...
I concur, although I'm not a former catholic.
The fact is, that for many evangelicals and mainline protestants, there is a level of discomfort involved with the idea of statues and icons being included in worship. This is mainly due to the way that our respective forebearers (namely the hebrews) shunned this sort of thing and thought it an abomination. Whether one can prove from scripture OR tradition that the practice is either OK or not is immaterial. Those that are comfortable with the practice of including statues in worship need to be reminded that the individuals who are not comfortable shouldn't looked down on NOR preached to concerning this matter.
My personal opinion... History should always trump tradition. If the Jews believed that using statues in worship was wrong, then we should at least take notice of that fact.
< Message edited by Mattumanu -- 7/23/2005 7:23:48 PM >
_____________________________
Radical Grace Radio
Tear Down the High Places
I'm a converted pagan operating amongst a nation of apostate puritans ~ C. S. Lewis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/23/2005 10:39:54 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mattumanu
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheoJunkie
I am a Reformed evangelical protestant.
As a former Catholic, and one who has read the Catechism and other official teachings on the issue, I vouch that the Catholic Church does not teach, imply, or advocate the worship of statues.
As with any denominational institution, there will be some individuals (including pastors) who do not "get it", and so, yes, there are some misguided Catholic individuals who worship statues (or, some variation thereof, such as thinking God/etc lives only inside the statue).
Toodles...
I concur, although I'm not a former catholic.
The fact is, that for many evangelicals and mainline protestants, there is a level of discomfort involved with the idea of statues and icons being included in worship. This is mainly due to the way that our respective forebearers (namely the hebrews) shunned this sort of thing and thought it an abomination. Whether one can prove from scripture OR tradition that the practice is either OK or not is immaterial. Those that are comfortable with the practice of including statues in worship need to be reminded that the individuals who are not comfortable shouldn't looked down on NOR preached to concerning this matter.
My personal opinion... History should always trump tradition. If the Jews believed that using statues in worship was wrong, then we should at least take notice of that fact.
Dear Matt,
I respect the beliefs of others in the matter as long as they don't call me an idolator while they're believing it.
On the Feast of St. Bridget of Sweden
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 7/25/2005 1:07:11 AM
|
|
|
unworthyseraphim
Posts: 1120
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Mississippi
Status: offline
|
Dear Sadie,
You said it is very nearly insulting to you to hear of Catholic who pray for the conversion of their protestant relatives. In your view is it equally very nearly insulting when Protestants pray for the conversion of their Catholic kin? And by extension is it very nearly insulting when Protestants not only feel free but "called" to go convert nominal Catholic or Orthodox populations to some variety of Protestantism rather than helping the indigenous churches reclaim their own to a deeper faith life. Do Protestant missionaries raising money for a mission trip to Central America or the Ukraine irk you? Just wondering.
Dear Sdaw
Bobbleheads: a new low...or perhaps not...it seems as if in some quarters what is holy and venerable if reduced to the level of a trinket, black velvet elvis painting, or a bumpersticker, is hunky dory. But dare to recognize the subject as holy and venerable and to represent it worthily with great skill and craftsmanship, and then to actually venerate that which is holy as presented in reverent image...then the sky is falling, people are becoming idolators, and, and the devil is having a field day. And the heads bobble on as they tramp with great assurance into local eateries to strain at gnats and swallow camels.
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 8:24:56 PM
|
|
|
pastorbob
Posts: 10
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
|
I don't see anything wrong with Catholics my entire family and my wifes family is catholic!And I'm not offended butyou know they are seeking new visions of speaking in tongues,laying on hands and annointing oil!And another thing they're having praise music including christain rap music!And another thing about the catholic religeon is they believe in the power of prayer and it don't mean worshipping statues is a sin to do so,its a faith way of praying to God just like the rosary beads they pray with each bead stands for something I can't remember to well because it was a long time ago when my grandmother told me what each one meant!They believe in God Jehovah Gira as their savior and Lord!
_____________________________
By Jesus stripes we are healled!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 8:41:27 PM
|
|
|
bassplayer4God
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/21/2005
Status: offline
|
1st Commandment. I am the Lord your God, thou shall have no other gods before me. Thou shall not make a Graven Image of anything in heaven above, the earth below, or the sea below. Thou shall not bow down and worship them. For I am a jealous God punishing up to the third and fourth generations for the sins of their fathers, but I am merciful to those who obey my commands.
As for the ark of the covenant those were specific instructions by God Himself. The statue thing in the RCC is a practice that was carried over by Constantine who practiced in stoicisim. Thats where you make little statues of your dead relatives and pray to them. The first commandment means what it says. Get rid of your statues God says so!
_____________________________
He who guards his mouth and his tongue keeps himself from calamity. Proverbs, 21:23.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 9:04:13 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bassplayer4God
1st Commandment. I am the Lord your God, thou shall have no other gods before me. Thou shall not make a Graven Image of anything in heaven above, the earth below, or the sea below. Thou shall not bow down and worship them. For I am a jealous God punishing up to the third and fourth generations for the sins of their fathers, but I am merciful to those who obey my commands.
As for the ark of the covenant those were specific instructions by God Himself. The statue thing in the RCC is a practice that was carried over by Constantine who practiced in stoicisim. Thats where you make little statues of your dead relatives and pray to them. The first commandment means what it says. Get rid of your statues God says so!
Dear bp4G,
You are absolutely right. If you see any Catholics, or anyone else, stoically worshiping their statues of dead relatives, tell them to stop.
And while you are at it, empty the parks and the museums of the idols, no matter how much it discomodes the pigeons. Throw your coins away too.
On the Feast of St. Ignatius of Antioch
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 9:05:12 PM
|
|
|
onelordofall
Posts: 262
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Question, bassplayer4God,
Was Christ, God Incarnate, the Word made Flesh Who dwelt among us, worthy of worship? Was He seen by those Who knew and fellowshipped with Him? Was He a "graven image" of the Lord your God?
If there were cameras in Christ's day, would a photograph of Him be a "graven image" in your opinion? If St. Peter, or Paul, or John, or Mary Magdalene had a camera and took a photo of Christ which they lovingly preserved, would that be idolatry, in your opinion?
Just curious.
Peace,
Michael
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 10:56:25 PM
|
|
|
onelordofall
Posts: 262
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear sdaw,
quote:
And while you are at it, empty the parks and the museums of the idols, no matter how much it discomodes the pigeons. Throw your coins away too.
"Discomodes?" Wouldn't it be more appropriate to refer to the "decommoding" of poor pigeons plaintively peering for a proper place to...
Forgive me... :)
Regardless, we all love to remember our loved ones, whether it is in photos, or in the case of our Lord and the Saints, in statues and paintings.
Question for those who have a problem with the visual arts when it comes to anything Christian. Why is it that those Christians gifted with vocal talent are expected to give their all in creating Christian "worship music," lest they be judged and banned from "Christian radio." On the other hand, Christians gifted in the visual arts are discouraged from ever painting, or sculpting, or rendering in any way a likeness of Christ or a symbol of their faith.
Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Peace in Christ,
Michael
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 11:06:00 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: onelordofall
Dear sdaw,
quote:
And while you are at it, empty the parks and the museums of the idols, no matter how much it discomodes the pigeons. Throw your coins away too.
"Discomodes?" Wouldn't it be more appropriate to refer to the "decommoding" of poor pigeons plaintively peering for a proper place to...
Forgive me... :)
Regardless, we all love to remember our loved ones, whether it is in photos, or in the case of our Lord and the Saints, in statues and paintings.
Question for those who have a problem with the visual arts when it comes to anything Christian. Why is it that those Christians gifted with vocal talent are expected to give their all in creating Christian "worship music," lest they be judged and banned from "Christian radio." On the other hand, Christians gifted in the visual arts are discouraged from ever painting, or sculpting, or rendering in any way a likeness of Christ or a symbol of their faith.
Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
Peace in Christ,
Michael
Dear Michael,
It's the "C" association that causes the problem.
On the Feast of St. Ignatius of Antioch
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 10/17/2005 11:17:13 PM
|
|
|
onelordofall
Posts: 262
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear sdaw,
quote:
It's the "C" association that causes the problem.
By golly, I do believe you're right! Again! :)
St. Ignatius of Antioch's Feast Day has not gone unnoticed in my neck of the woods.
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
Pax Christi, brother, as we await some relevant rebuttals...
Michael
|
|
|
|
|
[Deleted] - 2/21/2006 8:59:17 AM
|
|
|
Deleted User
|
[Deleted by Admins]
|
|
|
|
|
[Deleted] - 2/21/2006 9:02:22 AM
|
|
|
Deleted User
|
[Deleted by Admins]
|
|
|
|
|
[Deleted] - 2/21/2006 9:09:04 AM
|
|
|
Deleted User
|
[Deleted by Admins]
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 2/21/2006 10:23:13 AM
|
|
|
1lightseeker
Posts: 505
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
|
Mike_Mck,
We respect those who have passed on by remembering their actual presence with us by visual means. We Orthodox employ icons. It is similar to looking at a photo of a loved one who has gone to be with the Lord and kissing it or even talking to that person while we look at their representation.
We do it out of our love for them, God's love for them, and appreciation for their love for God and us.
_____________________________
My Blog
|
|
|
|
|
[Deleted] - 2/21/2006 10:33:46 AM
|
|
|
Deleted User
|
[Deleted by Admins]
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
