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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 1:21:32 PM
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bygraceiamsaved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheProfessor
The great whore is the USA. Read Revelation 18 and come up with any other nation of earth who fits this description better.
Jerusalem who rejected and crucified Jesus was the Great Whore.
JERUSALEM in Jesus own words:
Matthew 23:33-35 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 2:02:20 PM
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gpaatfwc
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What an interesting topic. :) you guys have a put a smile on my face for what Joy it is to even have the grace to talk about God.
I am a Catholic. its funny how Catholics are attacked for adhering to Truth. All i hear is that oh the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon. The pope is the anti-christ. blah blah blah blah blah.
what beautiful and innoncent ignorance. When told to study Church history, why is it you start at 1500 AD when the reformation (or a better term revolution) began? You have ignored approx 1500 years of christian history.
God does not change. God cannot lie. You manipulate the scriptures because you are not understanding the scripture with the light of the Holy Spirt which Christ gave to His church.
I don't care how much corruption is within His Church. If you know that this is His physical Church, you have no excuse for leaving it.
Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Hmm, sounds to me like the gates of hell with "try" to prevail therefore His authentic Church will be attacked in both the physical and spirtual realm.
I know soo many people who have jumped from one denomination into another. why are they leaving His Church? all too often it seems to me like they prefer comfort over enduring trails for holding on to and defending His Truth.
As augstine once said, i am seeking Truth Father, not affirming it. guide and rule over me.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 2:02:29 PM
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TheProfessor
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved
quote:
ORIGINAL: TheProfessor
The great whore is the USA. Read Revelation 18 and come up with any other nation of earth who fits this description better.
Jerusalem who rejected and crucified Jesus was the Great Whore.
JERUSALEM in Jesus own words:
Matthew 23:33-35 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Jerusalem doesn't fit the descriptions.
The USA does.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:05:26 PM
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bygraceiamsaved
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I disagree. And remember there are many many Christians in the United States. I believe the whore to have been Jerusalem which toppled in 66-70 AD. I have the freedom to go to any church I want, any job I want even though I am a Christian. The world would be a lot worse without us as Christians in it. The HS is keeping things at bay because of God's care for us. Persecution would be much worse. There is no persecution in the United States. And the United States is founded on Christian principles. Even our laws which many come from the ten commandments and are still in use today. When the Bible says Jerusalem that is to be taken literally.
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:10:04 PM
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bygraceiamsaved
Posts: 1748
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gpaatfwc
What an interesting topic. :) you guys have a put a smile on my face for what Joy it is to even have the grace to talk about God.
I am a Catholic. its funny how Catholics are attacked for adhering to Truth. All i hear is that oh the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon. The pope is the anti-christ. blah blah blah blah blah.
what beautiful and innoncent ignorance. When told to study Church history, why is it you start at 1500 AD when the reformation (or a better term revolution) began? You have ignored approx 1500 years of christian history.
God does not change. God cannot lie. You manipulate the scriptures because you are not understanding the scripture with the light of the Holy Spirt which Christ gave to His church.
I don't care how much corruption is within His Church. If you know that this is His physical Church, you have no excuse for leaving it.
Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Hmm, sounds to me like the gates of hell with "try" to prevail therefore His authentic Church will be attacked in both the physical and spirtual realm.
I know soo many people who have jumped from one denomination into another. why are they leaving His Church? all too often it seems to me like they prefer comfort over enduring trails for holding on to and defending His Truth.
As augstine once said, i am seeking Truth Father, not affirming it. guide and rule over me.
I do not agree with the RCC, but I do agree that it is being put in a place where it does not belong in the "end times" scenario. It's ridiculous IMO and it has unfortuantely been going on for years. But rest assured that most do not agree that the RCC is the whore spoken of in Revelation. It's not even hinted at and is going beyond what scripture says. I don't blame you if you are angry as this "rumour" has been going on far too long. There are many Christians I believe in the RCC and you are correct in that most of the "end times" rehtoric is due to complete ignorance.
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:32:23 PM
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Gbutler
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Both of you are wrong, it is the Roman empire, and whatever religious system is uesed by it, sorry to disappoint. revelation describes it real well
And as for the "end Times" you doubt, enjoy it while you can, you,re gonna be disappointed.
_____________________________
GWB
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:45:41 PM
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TheProfessor
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You have to learn about those feet and toes and understand what it means.
There are no gaps in that statue either.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:49:03 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 3:56:00 PM
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TheProfessor
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quote:
I disagree. And remember there are many many Christians in the United States. I believe the whore to have been Jerusalem which toppled in 66-70 AD. I have the freedom to go to any church I want, any job I want even though I am a Christian. The world would be a lot worse without us as Christians in it. The HS is keeping things at bay because of God's care for us. Persecution would be much worse. There is no persecution in the United States. And the United States is founded on Christian principles. Even our laws which many come from the ten commandments and are still in use today. When the Bible says Jerusalem that is to be taken literally.
I disagree.
Here is why.....
Revelation 18:19
"They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'
Jerusalem doesn't fit this description (as far as I can see) especially in 70AD.
But I do see that America is a dead ringer.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 6:08:25 PM
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bygraceiamsaved
Posts: 1748
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quote:
"They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'
Jerusalem doesn't fit this description (as far as I can see) especially in 70AD
It happened exactly as scripture is written.
The lament of each group ends with the words, Woe, woe,
the Great City! This expression would turn out to have great significance
for those living in Jerusalem in the years before and
during the Tribulation. Josephus tells of a Jewish prophet (interestingly,
his name was Jesus) in the Last Days, whose cry of
“Woe, woe!” became a familiar aspect of life in the City.
"A portent still more alarming had appeared four years before
the war at a time when profound peace and prosperity still prevailed
in the city [i. e., A.D. 62]. One Jesus, the son of Ananias,
an uncouth peasant, came to the feast at which every Jew is expected
to put up a tabernacle for God [i.e., the Feast of Tabernacles,
or su/ckothl; as he stood in the Temple courts he suddenly
began to cry out: “A voice from the east, a voice from the
west, a voice from the Four Winds, a voice against Jerusalem and
the Sanctuary, a voice against the Bridegroom and the Bride, a
voice against the whole people !” Day and night he uttered this
cry as he went about all the alleys.
Some of the leading citizens, seriously annoyed at these
ominous pronouncements, laid hold of the man and beat him
savagely. But he, without uttering a word in his own defense, or
for the private information of those who were beating him, persisted
in uttering the same warnings as before. Thereupon, the
magistrates, rightly concluding that some supernatural impulse
was responsible for his behavior, took him before the Roman governor. There, although flayed to the bone with scourges, he
neither begged for mercy nor shed a tear, but, raising his voice to
a most mournful cry, answered every stroke with “Woe, woe, to
Jerusalem!” When Albinus, the governor, asked him who he was
and whence he came and why he uttered these cries, he made no
reply whatever, but endlessly repeated his dirge over the city, until
Albinus released him because he judged him insane.
Throughout this time, until the war broke out, he never approached
another citizen nor was he seen talking to any, but daily,
like a prayer that he had memorized, he recited his lament:
“Woe, woe, to Jerusalem!” He never cursed any of those who
beat him from day to day, nor did he thank those who gave him
food; his only response to anyone was that melancholy prediction.
His voice was heard most of all at the festivals. So, for seven
years and five months he continued his wail, his voice as strong
as ever and his vigor unabated, till, during the siege, after seeing
the fulfillment of his foreboding, he was silenced. He was going
his rounds, shouting in penetrating tones from the wall, “Woe,
woe, once more to the city, and the people and the Temple!”
Then, when he added a last word – “And woe to me also!” – a
stone hurled from the ballista struck him, killing him on the
spot. Thus, with those same forebodings still upon his lips, he
met his end.’
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/22/2006 6:11:17 PM
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TheProfessor
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Jerusalem didn't make anyone wealthy who had ships on the sea.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 8:30:35 AM
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bygraceiamsaved
Posts: 1748
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The Israel merchants. Look in back in history to Biblical times. They were made very wealthy..when it was destroyed they could do nothing about it except weep and mourn.
Every shipmaster and sailor who has ships at sea mourned at the loss of their wealth due to Jerusalem's destruction. Many profited from Jerusalem's thriving economy.
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 8:48:44 AM
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TheProfessor
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved
The Israel merchants. Look in back in history to Biblical times. They were made very wealthy..when it was destroyed they could do nothing about it except weep and mourn.
Every shipmaster and sailor who has ships at sea mourned at the loss of their wealth due to Jerusalem's destruction. Many profited from Jerusalem's thriving economy.
I have studied history. Lots and lots of it. There is no historical evidence of nations of the world gaining wealth from Israel - much less those with ships and mourning for her. Can you provide it?
The nations of the world did not mourn her burning. If anything they rejoiced.
Jews mourned it, but not the nations of the world.
And the text exclusively says "babylon". That is not Jerusalem - in fact chapter 11 of Revelation states that Jerusalem is spiritually "Sodom and Egypt".
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 11:35:48 AM
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bygraceiamsaved
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Then you don't know your history as well as you think Professor because I haven't just fed you a line....
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 11:45:37 AM
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TheProfessor
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved
Then you don't know your history as well as you think Professor because I haven't just fed you a line....
Let's see it then.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 1:55:26 PM
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bygraceiamsaved
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Matthew 21:19,43. Also read Josephus an ancient historian who was there and whose documents are preserved for us today. The only ones who rejoiced was the Church who had been praying for Jerusalem's destruction.
< Message edited by bygraceiamsaved -- 5/23/2006 2:05:28 PM >
_____________________________
"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty"---John Calvin
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 2:18:39 PM
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caur
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved
Matthew 21:19,43. Also read Josephus an ancient historian who was there and whose documents are preserved for us today. The only ones who rejoiced was the Church who had been praying for Jerusalem's destruction.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Not only were your verses straw, your last sentence is probably one of the most spiritually uninformed statements you have ever made. You just couldn't be any more wrong. Also, I challenge you to produce one single account of Josephus concerning the issue at hand.
EDIT: For the OP sake, end time events do deal with world systems and religions, however, one must bear in mind that the spirit behind it all is "anti-christ". The Catholic Church is not "anti-christ". Islam is, however. So is the humanistic view of "all roads reach the same destination" which all of the other religions adhere to in a works-based foundation. Both of these popular ideals are world views and are "anti-christ", with the latter being prevailing. What will happen is that anyone that adheres to the anti-christ perspective will fall from the Body of Christ, having never really been a part anyway. We must, each one of us, strive to ensure that we do not partake of that perspective by submitting to Christ in spirit and in truth. Striving to obtain the mark of the prize.
< Message edited by caur -- 5/23/2006 2:27:38 PM >
_____________________________
Jesus is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 2:48:43 PM
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Justifiedbyfaith
Posts: 112
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From: The Evergreen State / Washington State
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Jer 44:18 But since4480, 227 we left off2308 to burn incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and to pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, we have wanted2637 all3605 things, and have been consumed8552 by the sword2719 and by the famine.7458
Jer 44:19 And when3588 we587 burned incense6999 to the queen4446 of heaven,8064 and poured out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, did we make6213 her cakes3561 to worship6087 her, and pour out5258 drink offerings5262 unto her, without4480, 1107 our men?376
Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah3414 said559 unto413 all3605 the people,5971 to5921 the men,1397 and to5921 the women,802 and to5921 all3605 the people5971 which had given him that answer,6030, (853), 1697 saying,559
Jer 44:21 (853) The incense7002 that834 ye burned6999 in the cities5892 of Judah,3063 and in the streets2351 of Jerusalem,3389 ye,859 and your fathers,1 your kings,4428 and your princes,8269 and the people5971 of the land,776 did not3808 the LORD3068 remember2142 them, and came5927 it not into5921 his mind?3820
Jer 44:22 So that the LORD3068 could3201 no3808 longer5750 bear,5375 because4480, 6440 of the evil7455 of your doings,4611 and because4480, 6440 of the abominations8441 which834 ye have committed;6213 therefore is1961 your land776 a desolation,2723 and an astonishment,8047 and a curse,7045 without4480, 369 an inhabitant,3427 as at this2088 day.3117
Jer 44:23 Because4480, 6440, 834 ye have burned incense,6999 and because834 ye have sinned2398 against the LORD,3068 and have not3808 obeyed8085 the voice6963 of the LORD,3068 nor3808 walked1980 in his law,8451 nor in his statutes,2708 nor in his testimonies;5715 therefore5921, 3651 this2063 evil7451 is happened unto7122 you, as at this2088 day.3117
I believe the practices of this Church is right out of Jeremiah. She is no different than the worship of the false idol back then who they called, "The Queen of Heaven." I see God will punish those who know right and do wrong in the last days. I see her in Rev 17.
_____________________________
Jesus warned, "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."
Matthew 24:11
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 3:03:33 PM
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Gbutler
Posts: 55
Joined: 4/27/2006
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Ha, I tend to disagree with you Caur, I havent seen any post from a couple here that is even close to Biblical. What puzzels me is, where did they get these rediculous ideas to begin with? Personally I have never heard of a Church that adheirs to some of these ideas. There is at least one group that is totally in error that shall not be named here, but they are a rariety, Take that back, there might be two, heh
It almost seems they have written their own version
_____________________________
GWB
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 3:04:08 PM
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TheProfessor
Posts: 179
Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bygraceiamsaved
Matthew 21:19,43. Also read Josephus an ancient historian who was there and whose documents are preserved for us today. The only ones who rejoiced was the Church who had been praying for Jerusalem's destruction.
Nevertheless, the nations of the earth (who had ships on the sea) were not made wealthy by her, nor did the nations of the world weep at her destruction.
I have a copy of Josephus, The Complete Works right here - and he gives the Jewish perspective - Josephus ben Matthias - would have that.
The USA is "Mystery, Babylon" - not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is spiritually Sodom and Egypt according to Revelation chapter 11.
And Josephus is not in the canon of scripture, although he gives us a great view of his time.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 3:48:26 PM
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TheProfessor
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But not louder than the Word.
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RE: Catholic Church in Prophecy? - 5/23/2006 3:48:34 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7610
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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ADIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Justifiedbyfaith,
If all you can do is respond with faces and one sentance quips then I will kindly ask you to refrain from participating in this discussion.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://christianfriend.com
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