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behold -> Bible Codes (10/5/2006 1:29:29 PM)

Ever since I learned about the "existence" of the Bible Codes, I thought it was hogwash, worse even, perhaps another weapon in the enemy's grand arsenal of religious confusion. However, a few weeks, mostly due to boredom here at work, I decided to entertain myself by writing a "Bible Codes" program for the King James Version. Well, now it seems I may have found some incredibly interesting anomalies, such as "Gorge Bush" immediately adjacent to "Head of State", "Ruler" (found 2x), "Leader", and "Eagle". The two instances of "Ruler", and the one instance of "Leader" all share the same last "r", and the "a" in "Eagle" is shared with the "a" in "State". Moreover, the ELS Skip specifically for "Head" and "State" is 777. And lastly, in the same matrix, I found "Bin Laden" at an ELS Skip of 2001. I'm trying to figure this whole thing out, reserving judgment for after I learn what the probablity is of finding such things. But it seems highly unlikely that such a thing would occur randomly. In any event, though I am exceptionally skilled in math, I am somewhat lacking in the study of probablity and statistics. I need help trying to figure this out. Can anyone help with this project? It does not matter whether you believe in Bible Codes, or even whether you believe in the bible or not; I just need your help computing the probability. THANKS IN ADVANCE !!!



inchristsblood -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 1:51:52 PM)

I think Bible codes are at the least interesting. I've considered studying them myself, but have remained undecided on the issue. I did however google about probability and outcome and I don't know if we are allowed to post sites, but just enter this: bible codes probability outcome and you will find some interesting sites. The ones I looked at of course relate to Hebrew, but perhaps you can adapt it to what you are woking on in the KJV. I think some of them have forums as well and you might get more help there. Someone here probably will be more helpful to you as well. Good luck in your quest!

Blessings,

ICB



1love1God1way -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 2:34:17 PM)

On the fringe of heresy....

I could do the same thing with Harry Potter books...



behold -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 3:22:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

On the fringe of heresy....

I could do the same thing with Harry Potter books...


That is exactly what I am seeking to find out.

Does anyone know where I could download lengthy worded books, such as Moby Dick, Tom Sawyer, etc, etc., IN TEXT (TXT) format ???



behold -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 3:42:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: inchristsblood

I think Bible codes are at the least interesting. I've considered studying them myself, but have remained undecided on the issue. I did however google about probability and outcome and I don't know if we are allowed to post sites, but just enter this: bible codes probability outcome and you will find some interesting sites. The ones I looked at of course relate to Hebrew, but perhaps you can adapt it to what you are woking on in the KJV. I think some of them have forums as well and you might get more help there. Someone here probably will be more helpful to you as well. Good luck in your quest!

Blessings,

ICB


Thanks for your response, I appreciate any and all help I receive from people. As mentioned in my first post, it's been several weeks now that I have been working with this. In that time, I have made attempts to come up with probability formulas, but I am not satisfied with what I have come up with so far; it's been over 15 years since I've been in school. I have also googled for probability and Bible Codes, but it's likely that someone who wholehearted believes in Bible Codes may be unable to provide a non-biased formula. The government and big business use biased probability to prove an agenda, so do people who are unable to remain open minded about a subject. I am seeking for the truth, and I need an unbiased person, proficienttly skilled in math. Sadly, perhaps the only way to find such an individual is to not mention what I need the formulas for !?!? Any idea how I go about finding such a person?

I could study this myself, and would likely come up with a definitive proof/theorem myself, but it would probably take months, which I may not have. The same matrix mentioned earlier also has a potential date (only month and day, NO year) for a horrible event.



inchristsblood -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 3:54:21 PM)

Okay, there is a book that may help you. The author is a mathemetician and he wrote the book after doing what you are doing. I think he actually sought to debunk the codes, but that didn't happen. World Net Daily sells it - Bible Code Bombshell is the name by R. Edwin Sherman. I haven't read it and I think it's more about his findings than actually running the codes.

I have heard that you can run codes in any book about anything. I don't know if it's true or not.



cow451 -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 4:01:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: behold

Ever since I learned about the "existence" of the Bible Codes, I thought it was hogwash, worse even, perhaps another weapon in the enemy's grand arsenal of religious confusion. However, a few weeks, mostly due to boredom here at work, I decided to entertain myself by writing a "Bible Codes" program for the King James Version. Well, now it seems I may have found some incredibly interesting anomalies, such as "Gorge Bush" immediately adjacent to "Head of State", "Ruler" (found 2x), "Leader", and "Eagle". The two instances of "Ruler", and the one instance of "Leader" all share the same last "r", and the "a" in "Eagle" is shared with the "a" in "State". Moreover, the ELS Skip specifically for "Head" and "State" is 777. And lastly, in the same matrix, I found "Bin Laden" at an ELS Skip of 2001. I'm trying to figure this whole thing out, reserving judgment for after I learn what the probablity is of finding such things. But it seems highly unlikely that such a thing would occur randomly. In any event, though I am exceptionally skilled in math, I am somewhat lacking in the study of probablity and statistics. I need help trying to figure this out. Can anyone help with this project? It does not matter whether you believe in Bible Codes, or even whether you believe in the bible or not; I just need your help computing the probability. THANKS IN ADVANCE !!!

But did it tell you anything useful? Like are Brad and Angelina breaking up? You know the saying: There are lies, darned lies and statistics.



.IC. -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 5:02:36 PM)

Hey all & Hi Behold,,

I have never really looked into the Bible Codes before & thou i have heard of them by a few sources i have yet to look into them to this date. However i am willing to help you if i can on this matter as i am intersted by what you have found so far,

speak soon.

till then take care,
yours In Christ,,
God Bless.



comeuphither -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 6:14:50 PM)

is the bible so boring that you have to go to "bible codes"? listen, satan knows the bible better than any human.hes clever, suttle, tricky and loves to play on the ignorance of men. of course things in there sound correct, he does have his henchman plus, the bible codes contain bad things happening. and since only God is all knowing, satan has to have men look up things after the fact. in other words ,tragedy happens first and then its looked up in the bible codes. think about it. God has not revealed in secret to his people but satan and his evil host do things in secret. bible codes is not of God. don't be deceived by the athiest who wrote it. God Bless, DEB~



behold -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 7:40:39 PM)

For the record, this thread is a "Want Ad", not a debate on whether the "bible codes" is from God or not. So, let me be explicit in why I started this thread:

I want FREE HELP from anyone with exceptional skills in the subject of probability and statistics. Frankly, I don't even care if you're muslim, hindu, or atheist. I came to the forum seeking help, because it does not cost anything to come to a forum to seek help. Had I the necessary money, I would just HIRE a professional. That said, I think the title is valid because it will attract people on both sides of the spectrum, those for, and those against. To get to the solution, I need exceptionally gifted math people to present their formulas, regardless of their position, for or against.

On a more personal note, I did not write the program because I was bored reading the bible, I am a software engineer, and my skill is not being used by my employer. So, since i was bored at work, I started to create the program. It was simply a challenge for me, as well as an entertaining way to apply my software engineering skill.

Up until January of this year, I worked from home for 4 years. In the last 3 of those years, i spent more time with my face in the bible, than I did in my work. (You could almost say I got paid to study the bible)



tony.nz -> RE: Bible Codes (10/5/2006 8:20:07 PM)

I have looked at this (some time ago), but like you I do not have the skills in statistics and probabilities to make informed opinions, and my view is still somewhat open.

The difficulty is, that although it is relatively straightforward to work out the probability of one sequence appearing in one particular place, it gets awfully confusing when you factor in the fact that you are working with a population with a very high number of possible sequence possibilities, and the fact that you are not fully defining what you are looking for. Therefore, in any one book, what is the likelihood of finding something that appears meaningful?



comeuphither -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 12:23:44 AM)

well sir, maybe all didn't understand your meaning and its asked alot. i am always concerned when people go into something such as that. maybe you should have asked under the computer section, they may help you. sorry for the confusion, it happens [sm=mouse.gif][sm=wave.gif] DEB



joefen -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 10:20:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: behold

For the record, this thread is a "Want Ad", not a debate on whether the "bible codes" is from God or not. So, let me be explicit in why I started this thread:

I want FREE HELP from anyone with exceptional skills in the subject of probability and statistics. Frankly, I don't even care if you're muslim, hindu, or atheist. I came to the forum seeking help, because it does not cost anything to come to a forum to seek help. Had I the necessary money, I would just HIRE a professional. That said, I think the title is valid because it will attract people on both sides of the spectrum, those for, and those against. To get to the solution, I need exceptionally gifted math people to present their formulas, regardless of their position, for or against.

On a more personal note, I did not write the program because I was bored reading the bible, I am a software engineer, and my skill is not being used by my employer. So, since i was bored at work, I started to create the program. It was simply a challenge for me, as well as an entertaining way to apply my software engineering skill.

Up until January of this year, I worked from home for 4 years. In the last 3 of those years, i spent more time with my face in the bible, than I did in my work. (You could almost say I got paid to study the bible)


behold,
I admire you for seeking the truth. Don't apologize for investigating something. It will strengthen your faith. Unanswered questions, no matter what the subject, can be a stumbling block. God gave you a technical brain, so don't be discouraged by anyone to use it.

I never even knew that there was the possibility of past fulfillment of some (all?) of the prophesies today's evangelical churches consider to be future. Looking into it further for the last year or so, there is merit to this position although 'Frankie' and others have made some valid points against 'preterism'. I continue to learn and ask God to help me. No matter what the final conclusion, it has made me study His Word carefully, and that has been a blessing and strengthened my faith, and for that I am thankful.

Wish I could help you with the statistics, but I'm not sure how you would evaluate that. Don't know much about the codes either, except that the author of the DaVinci Code (Dan Brown) made many statements in his book that are either not supported at all by Scripture, or flat out contradictions to what Scripture says. It is full of errors, so that makes me skeptical of the rest of his 'work'. But these codes, whatever they are, should be evaluated independently of the author who has recently brought them into the public eye. If they're bogus, and you can find similar prophetic phrases using Moby Dick or War and Peace as the base structure, then so be it - then you know it's a bunch of hogwash, and your research can be a very effective witness to others who don't know.

Let us know what your find out. I know at least some of us would be interested.

Peace to you all,
Joe



cow451 -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 11:09:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: comeuphither

well sir, maybe all didn't understand your meaning and its asked alot. i am always concerned when people go into something such as that. maybe you should have asked under the computer section, they may help you. sorry for the confusion, it happens [sm=mouse.gif][sm=wave.gif] DEB

I think a more basic question is what is the probability that God would hide information through mathmatical codes that could not be deciphered for thousands of years? Zero.

BTW, why not take your program and use it on other ancient texts and see if you can elicit messages. That would be one way of using mathmatics to address validity from a statistical standpoint.



1love1God1way -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 1:31:44 PM)

I know you are seeking for Truth, but you are going about the wrong way...

Read what God has already given you. Take out from the text what is there. That should be enough to keep you busy your entire life.

Bible codes put into the text things that aren't there. It's not pulling out of the text what God wanted to say to us.



drcain -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 5:04:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: behold

On a more personal note, I did not write the program because I was bored reading the bible, I am a software engineer, and my skill is not being used by my employer. So, since i was bored at work, I started to create the program. It was simply a challenge for me, as well as an entertaining way to apply my software engineering skill.


O Timothy! (and Behold!) Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge, by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen. 1 Timothy 6:20-21



happydays -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 6:13:48 PM)

you may need one of these



LoyalGypsy -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 6:18:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: behold

quote:

ORIGINAL: inchristsblood

I think Bible codes are at the least interesting. I've considered studying them myself, but have remained undecided on the issue. I did however google about probability and outcome and I don't know if we are allowed to post sites, but just enter this: bible codes probability outcome and you will find some interesting sites. The ones I looked at of course relate to Hebrew, but perhaps you can adapt it to what you are woking on in the KJV. I think some of them have forums as well and you might get more help there. Someone here probably will be more helpful to you as well. Good luck in your quest!

Blessings,

ICB


Thanks for your response, I appreciate any and all help I receive from people. As mentioned in my first post, it's been several weeks now that I have been working with this. In that time, I have made attempts to come up with probability formulas, but I am not satisfied with what I have come up with so far; it's been over 15 years since I've been in school. I have also googled for probability and Bible Codes, but it's likely that someone who wholehearted believes in Bible Codes may be unable to provide a non-biased formula. The government and big business use biased probability to prove an agenda, so do people who are unable to remain open minded about a subject. I am seeking for the truth, and I need an unbiased person, proficienttly skilled in math. Sadly, perhaps the only way to find such an individual is to not mention what I need the formulas for !?!? Any idea how I go about finding such a person?

I could study this myself, and would likely come up with a definitive proof/theorem myself, but it would probably take months, which I may not have. The same matrix mentioned earlier also has a potential date (only month and day, NO year) for a horrible event.



Greetings,


quote:

The government and big business use biased probability to prove an agenda, so do people who are unable to remain open minded about a subject. I am seeking for the truth, and I need an unbiased person, proficiently skilled in math. Sadly, perhaps the only way to find such an individual is to not mention what I need the formulas for !?!? Any idea how I go about finding such a person?



It is mentioned that each one of us since creation can be found in the codes, but ELS is just a basic up down right left type of crossword puzzle, type of math.
IMO one would need a formula in whatever length combined as part in a much larger formula and layer all of the Hebrew texts on a multidimensional plane to be able to read inward and between the texts front and back up down right left


The way I see it the scriptures are a living scripture, and subject to change, and so should the mathematical formulas be subject to change with each passing micro second. Basically there is no home computer that could handle this which is limited or biased in its processes from the get go.

Should one repent for example, what might be true today if researched and then coded, that event may not come to pass in the natural at a later date, and therefore would not be allowed to be seen the codes.
And if it did come to a preconception there would be nothing one could do to change the event from happening.
By example;
There was nothing Daniel could do, because “it is written” in Gods Law, and it will come to pass unless one repents there would be nothing one could do to change the event from happening.

Such as seen in Dan 9:13 As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us; yet we have not made our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities and understand Your truth.


We receive the lesser light, we reflect, God is the greater light, who gives, if we were to receive an equal amount of light then there would be no free will, and without free will the codes would therefore not exist and we would be eternal.


quote:

Any idea how I go about finding such a person


The codes are a living code, and are subject to change, it will take more then just stringing a few formulas together to get a live conception under the processes of free will.

That is of course until Jesus has returned back from the eternal, and we see Him as He is.





Loyal Gypsy



drcain -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 7:22:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy

The way I see it the scriptures are a living scripture, and subject to change...

"For I am the Lord, I do not change;" Malachi 3:6a


You are speaking heresy. Repent now, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, 2 Peter 2:1a



comeuphither -> RE: Bible Codes (10/6/2006 10:02:29 PM)

Loyal Gyspy,
I have to agree with the above reply. I read from the original Greek translated KJB and the only thing subject to change in the bible comes from man trying to make it easy for each generation.woe,if any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plaques that are written in this book>changing the meaning of prophecy can bring upon the judgement of God> and if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this propecy>no changing by adding or deleting> God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the Holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
A WARNING TO BELIEVERS! REV.22: part of 18,19

Daniel 9:13 As it is written in the law of moses, all this evil has come upon us: yet made we not our own prayer before the Lord our GOD, that we might turn from our niquities, and understand your truth. > the idea of this verse is: Judah would not repent although repeatly warned before judgement, they didn't even repent after judgement.

"understand Your Truth"means that truth here is extended to its fullest meaning. God being God implies necessarily that every word of promise or threatening he utters is true faithfulness and veracity are equally involved in Jehovah being God.

remember, God sees all and he judges righteous judgement on unrepented sin.
satan is a master at copies and he copies everything of God. poorly done but it deceives people. the bible codes has tragedy in it and they can't figure out what to "ask" if you will until something tragic happens . or it tells related things to certain men, or related things to the bible as 666/beast etc i can give examples later. nothing is hidden from us in the bible that we are to know. satan is the one who hides behind the scenes to deceive.it always uses doubt as satan spoke through the suttle serpant, "yea hath God said you shall not eat of every tree in the garden? satan always uses the weaker to get to adam.
2. and the woman said unto the serpent, we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden.

heres where its the open door to satan when adding to what God says, vs.3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, you shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YOU TOUCH IT lest you die. eve just opened the door to satans deception, he proclaims an outright denial of God's word. God gave the word to adam, satan now gives a sermon to eve. no wonder Jesus said Satan is a liar john 8:44

Gods true word says> Genesis 2:16,17

the bible code just as the mystic kabbalah is satans fortune teller. thats how i feel about it. but its your choice to make. Deb



LoyalGypsy -> RE: Bible Codes (10/7/2006 10:02:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drcain

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy

The way I see it the scriptures are a living scripture, and subject to change...

"For I am the Lord, I do not change;" Malachi 3:6a


You are speaking heresy. Repent now, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, 2 Peter 2:1a



quote:

ORIGINAL: comeuphither

Loyal Gyspy,
I have to agree with the above reply. I read from the original Greek translated KJB and the only thing subject to change in the bible comes from man trying to make it easy for each generation.woe,if any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plaques that are written in this book>changing the meaning of prophecy can bring upon the judgement of God> and if any man shall take away from the words of the Book of this propecy>no changing by adding or deleting> God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the Holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
A WARNING TO BELIEVERS! REV.22: part of 18,19

the bible code just as the mystic kabbalah is satans fortune teller. thats how i feel about it. but its your choice to make. Deb




Greetings,

These things that were mentioned have nothing to do with Bible Codes, and I agree with the replies.

The point was as a matter of prediction by using codes one would have to create a computer that thinks and can interpret free will,

When I mentioned the scriptures as being subject to change is merely based on a person’s repentance, blessing or cursing,
God has a plan for every action for or against Him, depending on one’s choice or free will.

For example: The Prime Minister of Israel, who was assassinated, he received this knowledge that is found in the codes ahead of time that he was going to be assassinated, and he ignored it.
I believe this was going to happen either way because it was found in the code.

Job was sent to Nineveh, the destruction of that place was already set, and if they did not repent they would have been destroyed but they repented and were not destroyed…at that time.
This itself suggests a change in direction or a change in the coded scripture by an act of free will.

So in a sense would something like this be found in the codes if it did not come to pass?



LG



joefen -> RE: Bible Codes (10/7/2006 11:32:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy


For example: The Prime Minister of Israel, who was assassinated, he received this knowledge that is found in the codes ahead of time that he was going to be assassinated, and he ignored it.
I believe this was going to happen either way because it was found in the code.

LG


You are saying that Rabin's assassination was predicted in this Bible code? No idea how good the link is, but this guy appears to have done the same with Moby Dick:

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html



comeuphither -> RE: Bible Codes (10/7/2006 11:52:25 AM)

quote:

You are saying that Rabin's assassination was predicted in this Bible code? No idea how good the link is, but this guy appears to have done the same with Moby Dick:



I know, ha, but I wasn't going to go there on moby.
sorry gypsy if I seemed like I was down on you. you cleared alot for me on what he was meaning to do. but you know me, I love to go on in scripture and sometimes my topics go of to make another point. I was just concerned when you said changing the word....was it? so my bad for not understanding the guys point concerning ???
DEB~



LoyalGypsy -> RE: Bible Codes (10/7/2006 1:10:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joefen

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy


For example: The Prime Minister of Israel, who was assassinated, he received this knowledge that is found in the codes ahead of time that he was going to be assassinated, and he ignored it.
I believe this was going to happen either way because it was found in the code.

LG


You are saying that Rabin's assassination was predicted in this Bible code? No idea how good the link is, but this guy appears to have done the same with Moby Dick:

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html




Greetings,

LOL.....

Given: Barney is a CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR
Prove: Barney is satanic

The Romans had no letter 'U', and used 'V' instead for
printing, meaning the Roman representation would for
Barney would be: CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR

CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR

Extracting the Roman numerals, we have:

CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
CV V L DI V

And their decimal equivalents are:

CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR
CV V L DI V
/ | | | | \ |
100 5 5 50 500 1 5

Adding those numbers produces: 666.

666 is the number of the Beast.

Proved: BARNEY IS SATAN!


LG



comeuphither -> RE: Bible Codes (10/7/2006 2:39:54 PM)

[:D][:D][;)] no......santa is satan! barney is a purple demon lol. Love Deb[8D]



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