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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 11:54:19 AM
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Sunnymom
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Vaccination as a child does not always grant one lifetime immunity. You can have a blood test done to see what diseases you are immune to, and what boosters you need. I had some boosters before I got pregnant with my firstborn, can't remember what for off the top of my head.
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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 12:50:49 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7981
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sunnymom
Vaccination as a child does not always grant one lifetime immunity. You can have a blood test done to see what diseases you are immune to, and what boosters you need. I had some boosters before I got pregnant with my firstborn, can't remember what for off the top of my head.
That's true and one of the main reasons why I think it's better for children to get the chicken pox rather than having to be immunized about every 15 years or so. Two of my children had major cases of chicken pox. My middle child never exhibited symptoms, so the doctor wanted her to be immunized. Instead, we did a blood test to determine immunity and it came back positive for immunity. I have never appeared to have chicken pox, but must be immune, as I've been exposed over and over again since I was a child and as an adult. I don't like the idea of immunizing someone if they are already immune.
Our environment has changed so much over the last decades. There are far more chemicals that we absorb and breathe in on a daily basis than what we receive in vaccinations. Babies little bodies are bombarded with all kinds of chemicals in the clothes they wear and the food they eat to the carpet they crawl on and the air they breathe.
There is a law that babies must wear flame retardant sleepwear. That alone has ramifications upon the developing bodies of children. There are so many chemicals that are absorbed into our bodies from the time we are born that blaming everything on one source is truly a myopic view.
There are many other factors besides chemicals. Our society has changed significantly with technology. Television, video games, astronomical divorce rates and moral relativism, etc. are things that have become part of the fabric of our nation. All of these things can have an impact upon behavior and health. Of course, this is not a comprehensive list of things that can impact our behavior and health.
Research does show that some people are affected negatively by vaccinations. That could be expected with anything that is ingested or injected. As discussed before, people are allergic to many things. It should come as no surprise that some people are allergic to some vaccines. It is also true that a person may have a reaction to one vaccine, but not to another. This is because of the specific ingredients in each vaccine. For example, I was reading some literature about adverse reactions to vaccinations on the CDC site. If a person is allergic to eggs, there is a higher risk of adverse reaction to some vaccines. Here's a link to a paper on the subject.
All in all, we should know what we are putting into our bodies, not only from vaccinations, but from other sources. We should be aware rather than following the crowd. For example, I would not let my children wear flame resistant clothing, but instead either make their sleepwear or have them wear something not designated for sleepwear that comfortably suits the purpose. This is but one example of being aware of what we are putting on or in our bodies and making choices based on information rather than what everyone else is doing.
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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 1:42:17 PM
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Sideways
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Just for clarity, you were concerned about the chemicals that make a sleepsuit flame retardant?
I hadn't heard about any concerns about that, but I am just starting to recieve babywear as gifts and pick up a few items at second-hand stores.
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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 2:26:01 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7981
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From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Just for clarity, you were concerned about the chemicals that make a sleepsuit flame retardant?
I hadn't heard about any concerns about that, but I am just starting to recieve babywear as gifts and pick up a few items at second-hand stores.
Yes, but that was an example of other possible causes for a range of maladies being blamed on vaccinations. Apart from that, it is off topic for this thread. You can start a thread in Health and Fitness if you'd like to discuss it further. It is not a topic I know much about, but flame retardant sleepwear does off gas and that concerns me, so I avoided it entirely.
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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 3:41:51 PM
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W.O.F.
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Whether or not to get your kids vaccines is not an easy decision to make...nor is it one to be taken lightly.
It behooves each parent to fully educate themselves from credible sources (and ones that do not use OUTdated information) and then prayerfully measure what is best for their child.
There are other things besides the vaccines themselves to consider as well, but also the area where you live and the degree to which a virus may have to mutate.
for example...when we lived in KS...everyone let their kids catch chickenpox...so the cases were pretty mild...a few moderate...but nothing lifethreatening. where we live now...2 out of every 5 actual cases of chickenpox results in a child being put on lifesupport at least temporarily as the virulance of the virus is stronger due to MOST kids having the vaccines.
It is a complicated matter......not one to be made with scare tactics or outdated information....
Just make sure that whatever decision you make you realize that it can come with some very possible severe consequences.....
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RE: vaccines - 11/25/2006 5:28:09 PM
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Sideways
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Thanks, Cynthia.
I know that some women here have faced the issue that certain pediatricians refuse take your baby, unless you agree to a certain vacination schedule, which is the doctor's right, I suppose. But it's anouther issue for the new parents to deal with.
We are with Kaiser Permenante, so in a few months I'll have to start looking around for peds, within the Kaiser network. So far, I've been very happy with our doctor/patient interactions, though.
Knowing my husband we'll probably go for all of the major vacinations and maybe chicken pox. But if our child starts reacting, or if there is some child-specific reason why we should delay or even withhold vacs - we'd probably deal with that as the issuse arose.
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RE: vaccines - 11/26/2006 11:00:38 AM
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rebeccalynn3348
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Of course I am not suggesting vaccines cause every problem we have today..I educate myself on bad diet and nutrition, environmental polutants, stress, etc. and yes those of course can weaken our bodies. Someone mentioned even babies clothing and crawling on carpet, etc. Vaccinations, however, are unique (and in my opinion more severe) because they are injected directly into the muscle/bloodstream with all the added toxins..this is a surprise attack on the body (and especially serious for an infant who does not have the develped immune system to fight it many times). Often times the child will get anywhere from 3 to 9 vaccines in one sitting (which to the immune system is like getting all those diseases at the same time) When comparing things like environmental fumes, polutants, etc. these are very slowly introduced to the immune system so the body is able to build a defense and go through the natural barriers God designed for us. This is how I plainly look at the choices..I can either:
1. Not vaccinate my child and yes of course run the risk of them getting diseases, however, my children will be getting them slowly and there will be no suprise attack on their immune system and no toxic, poisonous substances in their bodies that ARE linked to MANY diseases, autoimmune disorders, cancers, etc. I have the opportunity to protect their bodies and use preventative measures with the natural substances given to us by the Lord.
2. Get my kids vaccinated with a couple dozen shots all mixed with toxic, poisonous substances and hope no bad reactions happen then also hope they are even protected against the disease (which much of the info. I've given shows how the shots are often times neither safe or effective) putting all my trust into agencies which are making money off millions of children getting vaccinated.
For my husband and I even looking at this we had to make the decision not to vaccinate, however, add all the research that has been done to show links to countless diseases and disorders, the proof of ineffectiveness and knowing the ingredients they put into them..it was very clear to us. Some may say that it depends on the child if the ingredient is safe or not but who wants to take that chance? Formaldehyde, mercury, alluminum and phenol are considered NOT safe at ANY level. I'm going to go with the studies of experts who work with these substances and know them well versus the government agencies whose only goal is to make sure that America is fully vaccinated. The medical model we live under today is not concerned with health...they are concerned with managing symptoms and this is why you see countless commercials of medications being recalled for causing X numbers of deaths. They aren't focused on keeping a person healthy or they wouldn't be putting these ingredients into our infant children...they are concerned about getting every child vaccinated no matter what the cost and even if this means using guilt, pressure, manipulation and yes many times even lies to do it...I don't trust that and I'm urging parents not to blindly trust that either...do your own research, PRAY, and listen to your gut. Its going to be decades before we see the effects of earlier vaccines and many vaccines lumped together in one shot on babies, however, we are seeing many of the effects of the earlier vaccine schedules and that alone scares me.
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RE: vaccines - 11/26/2006 12:36:03 PM
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stampinlady
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I just heard on Fox news this morning that the Whooping Cough vaccine wears off by age 11 and many should be revaccinated. That explains the outbreak I heard about.
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RE: vaccines - 11/26/2006 6:16:17 PM
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stampinlady
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The Dr. didn't say to delay, but to revaccinate at 11 or 12. I think I may go in and ask our Dr. because I work with children and many from other countries.
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RE: vaccines - 11/26/2006 7:34:50 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7981
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
But little ones are the most at risk for whooping cough, aren't they? If we delay vaccinations (which I'm considering strongly) I do think the one we will get is for pertussis in the first year.
The little ones are at the most risk for a serious case of whopping cough (pertussis). It is much harder on children two and under than on older children and adults.
WOF also made a good point about how when most of the population is immunizing, the diseases may become more virulent for those that do get the diseases. She had mentioned the chicken pox before, in another thread, but I didn’t realize how serious it was. Around here, many people do not vaccinate against chicken pox. Lots of people still purposefully expose their children. I can’t imagine doing that under the circumstances she describes in her area.
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RE: vaccines - 11/26/2006 9:12:20 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7981
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
Of course I am not suggesting vaccines cause every problem we have today..I educate myself on bad diet and nutrition, environmental polutants, stress, etc. and yes those of course can weaken our bodies. Someone mentioned even babies clothing and crawling on carpet, etc. Vaccinations, however, are unique (and in my opinion more severe) because they are injected directly into the muscle/bloodstream with all the added toxins..this is a surprise attack on the body (and especially serious for an infant who does not have the develped immune system to fight it many times). Often times the child will get anywhere from 3 to 9 vaccines in one sitting (which to the immune system is like getting all those diseases at the same time) When comparing things like environmental fumes, polutants, etc. these are very slowly introduced to the immune system so the body is able to build a defense and go through the natural barriers God designed for us.
Let me get this straight. Are you saying that of all the chemicals, lifestyle changes, eating habits, preservatives, pesticides, moral decline, etc., etc., that you think vaccinations are the main source of the rise in all the things you have listed in your posts here, because they are given in a dosage that you believe surprises the body, even though many of the diseases you have listed don’t even show up for many years?
Environmental toxins are not all slowly introduced to the immune system. Most of the time, exposure happens all at once and then continues whenever a person is in the vicinity of the toxin. This is quite unlike vaccinations in that the vaccination happens all at once, the body is able to deal with and use it to boost the immune system, then when the vaccine is introduced again, the body has already begun to use it. The body isn’t constantly inundated by the ingredients in the vaccine. It could be said that it works the opposite of how you described.
Babies do not have a strongly developed immune system of their own, but they do have immunities that they received in the womb from their mothers. They are not without immunity. The vaccinations are good for the babies bodies, as they build immunity against those diseases. Yes, it is true that vaccinations contain ingredients that sound scary and when taken in larger doses could be harmful, but they aren’t given in larger doses. The ingredients are specifically designed to keep the vaccinations fresh and safe, as well as to provide immunity to various diseases. It is a good thing that puss and other animal ingredients are used, as this is what makes the vaccinations work. Yes, it sounds gross, but gross is not always a bad thing. You could use the same logic to turn people away from antibiotics by telling them they are eating mold, which could lead to the deaths of some people that would die without antibiotics. The same is true with vaccinations. Not being vaccinated could result in serious illness or even death.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
This is how I plainly look at the choices..I can either:
1. Not vaccinate my child and yes of course run the risk of them getting diseases, however, my children will be getting them slowly and there will be no suprise attack on their immune system and no toxic, poisonous substances in their bodies that ARE linked to MANY diseases, autoimmune disorders, cancers, etc. I have the opportunity to protect their bodies and use preventative measures with the natural substances given to us by the Lord.
2. Get my kids vaccinated with a couple dozen shots all mixed with toxic, poisonous substances and hope no bad reactions happen then also hope they are even protected against the disease (which much of the info. I've given shows how the shots are often times neither safe or effective) putting all my trust into agencies which are making money off millions of children getting vaccinated.
That is a false dichotomy. Those are not the only two choices.
Options #3, have my children vaccinated against various diseases to protect their health and the health of those they come into contact with.
Can you give specific studies that show that vaccinations have been linked to even one autoimmune disorder, cancer or etc.? So far you haven’t, yet many studies that have refuted what you are saying have been cited on this thread.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
For my husband and I even looking at this we had to make the decision not to vaccinate, however, add all the research that has been done to show links to countless diseases and disorders, the proof of ineffectiveness and knowing the ingredients they put into them..it was very clear to us.
What proof? So far you have made a lot of sweeping statements, but not one shred of proof.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
Some may say that it depends on the child if the ingredient is safe or not but who wants to take that chance?
Me!! Raising my hand frantically. I would much, much rather take the very rare chance of my children having a reaction to a vaccination, rather than leaving them open to disease. We already know what happens when people get these diseases, but when a child has a vaccination it is no more dangerous than exposing them to Thousand Island Dressing, which my child turned out to be allergic to. If we took the tact that you suggest, we wouldn’t ever try anything new or expose ourselves to anything for fear of a reaction. That is more dangerous than trying new things and protecting ourselves from diseases with known solutions.
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
Formaldehyde, mercury, alluminum and phenol are considered NOT safe at ANY level. I'm going to go with the studies of experts who work with these substances and know them well versus the government agencies whose only goal is to make sure that America is fully vaccinated. The medical model we live under today is not concerned with health...they are concerned with managing symptoms and this is why you see countless commercials of medications being recalled for causing X numbers of deaths. They aren't focused on keeping a person healthy or they wouldn't be putting these ingredients into our infant children...they are concerned about getting every child vaccinated no matter what the cost and even if this means using guilt, pressure, manipulation and yes many times even lies to do it...I don't trust that and I'm urging parents not to blindly trust that either...do your own research, PRAY, and listen to your gut. Its going to be decades before we see the effects of earlier vaccines and many vaccines lumped together in one shot on babies, however, we are seeing many of the effects of the earlier vaccine schedules and that alone scares me.
Why do you keep bringing up mercury? There is no mercury in childhood vaccinations.
Formaldehyde, aluminum and phenol do have safe levels of exposure. For goodness sakes, people cook with aluminum cookware all the time. Okay I admit we don’t have any aluminum cookware as I consider it unsafe in my kitchen, but the exposure to aluminum one gets by eating food cooked in aluminum cookware is probably a lot more than what one would get in vaccinations.
Do you think that exposure to aluminum could be causing the diseases and disorders that you’ve been posting about? Which ingredients do you specifically think are causing the disorders? Are these ingredients also in the environment? So far, I have shown how aluminum is in cookware. Mercury is in fillings, but not in childhood vaccinations.
Phenol is a drug, not a poison, unless, of course, you drink it or use too much, you would have a negative result, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. We are talking about a prescribed amount in an immunization. It has several uses as a medicine and is also known as benzyl alcohol. I couldn’t find what immunization it is in, could you enlighten us?
< Message edited by cynthia -- 11/26/2006 9:21:55 PM >
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 2:53:48 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 161
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Sorry..about six paragraphs down it is suppossed to read like this:
According to an article from Chronic Exposure and Human Health and an article from Our Toxic Times,
Mercury is the second most poisonous element known to man next to uranium and it is not safe at any level, yet they are putting it into our children’s vaccinations.
This extremely toxic substance may be fatal. Mercury does not easily leave the body. Once ingested, injected, or inhaled, it stays and accumulates.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 4:12:31 PM
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PrincessDonna
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quote:
please understand parents who decide not to vaccinate, selectively decline certain vaccines, or wait until their children are older have every right to practice whatever preventative meausres they wish with their children.
No one is saying this isn't true. I know several people (some here on CW/FCN) who have very good reasons to not immunize or delay immunization.
I think what Cynthia, myself and others take issue with is your use of scare tactics. You are spouting things without citing sources and expecting us all to believe them. Many of us have researched this topic ourselves and don't believe the lies we are told...from you or from doctors.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 4:15:23 PM
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PrincessDonna
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As for the mercury...from THIS SITE:
quote:
Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930's. No harmful effects have been reported from thimerosal at doses used in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site. However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service (PHS) agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure. Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.
Of course, that is the Center for Disease Control website, so I'm sure some will think there is a conspiracy and this is false information.
< Message edited by PrincessDonna -- 11/27/2006 5:40:34 PM >
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 4:59:35 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 161
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PrincessDonna,
Again I will say as I've said several times...I DO NOT want anyone to trust me..I am NOT an expert and I want others to do their own research. You can call it scare tactics if you want, but this is the information that explains the points I'm making. I do think it is scary, but does that mean I shouldn't share it??? I am not trying to instill fear in people...I want people to be educated on the things the government is conveniently leaving out. For instance when they say the diseases are "life-threatening" when they are not...that is what I believe is a scare tactic. Pointing out studies, independent research and what is really in vaccines is giving information. YES I have been giving the sources...did you not just see the books I just gave so you are able to check them out or buy them on your own and the websites?? Many people keep saying I am not giving sources and I don't know what more you would like me to give..please let me know. Once again, I don't want anyone to trust me...I am a stranger over the internet...my only concern is that parents be educated on BOTH sides of the issue. I am sharing the side that they are not being told about.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 5:04:12 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 161
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PrincessDonna - How do you explain that the CDC lists thimerosol as an ingredient on one page, an ingredient only in flu vaccines on another, and then says it isn't in any on another. That is not me being overly cautious...that is them being completely unclear! I'm not going to debate my opinions about the CDC, though, that is not the issue...I will just say I choose not to trust any government agency 100%. I only put that kind of blind trust and faith in the Lord. I have countless articles and video footage of the CDC being caught in lies and cover-ups so yes I have distaste for them, but you are welcome to trust them if you please.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 5:43:00 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6024
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Where is the actual website please regarding autoimmune disorders? I have asked several times and have not been given a specific link.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 5:55:39 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
For instance when they say the diseases are "life-threatening" when they are not...that is what I believe is a scare tactic.
But for some children the diseases that are being immunized against - CAN be life threatening, or at the very least cause other problems (I'm thinking repiratory issues here as that is what most commonly affects my children)- which often land kids like mine in the ER, and on respirators, thus costing my insurance company and myself, much more money then a simple immunization.
Polio - which does sometimes affect the lungs and respiratory functioning is a big one.
Anything that can cause swelling of the throat or infections of any sort is a great concern for me. IT'S NOT fun watching a little guy gasping for breathbecause he has once again caught the flu or some other bug and it decided to attack his lungs. I'd rather he have some immunization protection against these types of things, so it is one less chance for him have a life-threatening problem with being unable to breathe.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 5:59:28 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10417
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quote:
But for some children the diseases that are being immunized against - CAN be life threatening, or at the very least cause other problems (I'm thinking repiratory issues here as that is what most commonly affects my children)- which often land kids like mine in the ER, and on respirators, thus costing my insurance company and myself, much more money then a simple immunization.
Yup, I have one of those kids too. He had pneumonia over 10 times in his first two years of life and was on multiple asthma medications until he was 5. It is also dangerous for those and other vulnerable children to be around masses of unvaccinated kids.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 6:57:27 PM
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manda59
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I went to school with a child who had survived diptheria (link). A membrane had grown across the back of his throat and tonsils and blocked his airwayl he had needed an emergency tracheotomy. The Wikipedia link is HERE
This was at age 4.
Even though he survived, he remained weak, thin and drawn all the time I knew him; he always looked pale, never seemed fit and well.
Diphtheria is on the increase again in parts of the world where immunisation has become lax (eg former Soviet Union)
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 7:53:37 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7981
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Diphtheria is on the increase again in parts of the world where immunisation has become lax (eg former Soviet Union)
Yes. This is correct. Aren't they don't emergency mass immunizations due to an outbreak?
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 8:08:01 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
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This may be sobering for all of you...go to www.909shot.com and check out the International Memorial for Vaccine Victims. If the information I've provided isn't telling enough these personal experiences may help you realize the seriousness and harm these shots can cause. I'm not saying that people don't get the diseases and suffer serious complications but like I mentioned before if the shots are neither safe nor effective then maybe we need to rethink our methods.
I am looking more in depth into my information regarding autoimmune disorders because I guess you don't want to get these books out I've mentioned. See, I did not just do research on the internet so I don't always just have a site to go to..I did research through every source I could think of - books, journals, personal experience, visiting doctors offices and chiropractors, DVD, newsbroadcast reports, etc. I will try to find specifics for you.
It breaks my heart to hear of the issues your children have had to go through. I truly am sorry for that...I've been lucky in that my children have never had nothing more than a cold. I'm not going to begin to say that is or is not because I do not vaccinate, however, in my personal experience talking to people (about two dozen) who have not vaccinated they have no allergies, asthma, and are for the most part pretty healthy. Of course they also have incredible diets which is a big part of it. This study was interesting...
This was a country where vaccination was mandatory and no longer is New Zealand). Reported in the prestigious Journal of Epidemiology this study focused on the number of doctor office visits children had relating to asthma and a variety of other allergic diseases.
In the vaccinated group 23.1% were seen before the age of 10 for asthma. Another 30% were cared for for a variety of other allergic diseases. In the unvaccinated population not one child under the age of 10, zero %, was seen for asthma or other allergic diseases. NOT ONE. They found these results to be true for 5 year olds as well as for the 16 year old group.” (www.chirotips.com/immunization.htm)
You can go to that site and see it...I can't remember if they say how large the groups were that they are talking about.
Wendy, a close friend of my husband’s family, has five brothers and sisters, all who were not vaccinated and now they are all married with children. Of course this is only one family’s testimony, but it goes along with this study. Wendy and all her siblings have no allergies, asthma, or other chronic health problems, however, all their spouses which have been vaccinated have either allergies, asthma, or both. Like I said this is one example but I thought it was interesting. Wendy’s three children are not vaccinated. Her daughter got a mild case of whooping cough when she was young, but that is the only health concern she can remember her having. They also lead very healthy lifestyles and use natural methods such as herbs and supplements to boost their immune systems. Maybe this particular family’s health has nothing to do with not getting vaccinated, but the New Zealand study is pretty alarming.
Some of this info. I'm taking right from my notes for my vaccine seminars.
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A Happy Marriage is the union of two forgivers.
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RE: vaccines - 11/27/2006 8:11:07 PM
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rebeccalynn3348
Posts: 161
Joined: 11/15/2006
From: MD
Status: offline
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Please don't suggest that unvaccinated children are putting vaccinated children at risk...this is silly and is the argumnet used to guilt parents into vaccinating, however, if there was any truth to that they are just admitting how little faith they have in their own vaccines. If they are truly effective then only the unvaccinated group would be at risk.
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A Happy Marriage is the union of two forgivers.
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