Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (Full Version)

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rebeccalynn3348 -> Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/16/2006 11:16:25 PM)

I already posted this in another forum but thought it was relevant here also...I'm doing seminars in my local libraries entitled: Vaccines: The truth behind the shot and I wanted to share some things with fellow Christians that you may not know. First and most relevant to believers is that they often times use aborted fetal tissue as a medium for these shots (you can find this on the CDC website; the technical name is human diploid cells). They are neither safe or effective and the disease decline was between 90 and 95% BEFORE the implementation of mass vaccination programs. They use all kinds of harmful and even fatal ingredients such as mercury (thimerosol), formaldehyde, alluminum, phenol, acetone, etc. These are poisons and can kill! Autism has increased 1,000% percent since earlier and more shots were introduced to the program according to Reader's Digest. The most helpful information I can give you is to please research this on your own. The National Vaccine Information Center's website is very helpful (www.909shot.com) and check out www.thinktwice.com along with the book Vaccines: Are they really safe and effective? by Neil Z. Miller. Also that vaccines are optional (although you are often times told they are mandatory). You can get exemptions in every state (although Mississippi is strict and only allows medical exemptions) and often times you can sign a waiver against individual vaccines. I urge all parents to research this and find out the truths behind these often times dangerous shots. Contact me at rebeccalynn3348@yahoo.com if you want any more information on this. Hope this is helpful.



nicole6598 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/16/2006 11:50:51 PM)

we had our daughter immunised for everything but chickenpox and when i told a recent doctor she did not have the chickenpox vaccine i was treated like i was the worst mother in the world for not doing it! then she said "well i bet what your daughter has IS chickenpox". It ended up being gastro. Some doctors are plain mean i think!
In Australia you are paid money from the govt once your child has all of the required vaccines by the time they are 18mths old.
I would like to hear what other parents have to say on this though, do you think it's right? Is it a lack of faith?



Jess75 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/17/2006 1:55:12 AM)

I am interested to hear peoples opinions/experiences. We have a 10 week old, and have so far decided not to get her immunized. I had read where it causes lupus, and other auto immune disorders later in life, not to mention, everything in the original post.

I think it is scary either way...do we risk her getting an illness the good old fashioned way, or risk giving it to her ourselves.

It is a hard choice...



manda59 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/17/2006 6:11:15 AM)

Are you sure you are looking at up-to-date information?

For example, re thimerosal, my understanding is that all routinely recommended licensed paediatric vaccines that are currently being manufactured for the U.S. market contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts.

Haven't checked on the others yet, but you may well find that things have changed since whatever research you are reading was published.



rebeccalynn3348 -> my mistake (11/17/2006 1:12:20 PM)

Sorry I did not realize you couldn't put a similar message in two forums, however, I will respond to the one here so there is no confusion



rebeccalynn3348 -> reply to manda59 (11/17/2006 3:33:59 PM)

manda59 - my research is very up to date and you may be alarmed by this but pharmacuetical companies were not mandated to remove thimerosol, it was only recommended and the existing shots containing thimerosol were not removed so you don't know if you are getting one with or without it unless you know enough to ask and to see the contents. This is why it is so important for parents to be informed of all the information. Also thimerosol is only one of many toxic and unsafe ingredients found in childhood vaccinations.



agapetos -> RE: my mistake (11/17/2006 3:48:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348

Sorry I did not realize you couldn't put a similar message in two forums, however, I will respond to the one here so there is no confusion

I believe that's in tos, which you should have read before joining.

quote:

my research is very up to date

You need to provide references for your research ~ be it online or through books. You've posted two links and named one book. It may be up to date research but it doesn't mean it's accurate.
quote:

The most helpful information I can give you is to please research this on your own.
You're at the very least probably giving a lot of people cause for concern over what to do.

These kind of threads and scaremongering really don't sit well with me.

I don't have children. If I did would I have them vaccinated. Absolutely yes. Why? Because the side effects of the diseases they cure are far worse than the tiny risk of the side effects of the vaccines. Not to mention that your child may get off Scott free ~ but pass a disease onto a sibling or a friend and they could end up suffering for it.

I live in the UK and there was a lot of controversy some years back ~ caused by a doctor who said how dangerous vaccines were. His research has been much discredited now. Can't recall his name but if I can I'll check it out and post.



garsyt -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/17/2006 4:09:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598

we had our daughter immunised for everything but chickenpox and when i told a recent doctor she did not have the chickenpox vaccine i was treated like i was the worst mother in the world for not doing it! then she said "well i bet what your daughter has IS chickenpox". It ended up being gastro. Some doctors are plain mean i think!
In Australia you are paid money from the govt once your child has all of the required vaccines by the time they are 18mths old.
I would like to hear what other parents have to say on this though, do you think it's right? Is it a lack of faith?


My kids have been immunized. We've had very little in the way of side effects. My eldest had the chicken pox 2 weeks before he was set to have the vaccination when he was just about 2 years old, so that is the only vaccination he didn't get. He ended up getting chicken pox again when he was in 4th grade.[&:] Trust me he had them twice - the first case was mild compared to the second case, though.

I also have a little guy that suffers from severe respiratory problems. Essentially everytime he gets a cold or an infection or virus of ANY sort - it attacks his lungs and raises havoc. He has every one of his vaccinations and gets a flu shot every year. I would rather have him immunized against everything possible then run the risk of him catching something that is preventable and ending up in the hospital on a respirator.

Every so often the debate over immunizations comes up - And I understand that there are reasons not to immunize - I just chose a different plan for me and mine. I have a good friend that will not immunize her children - because reactions to immunizations nearly killed one of her children. Thus she has a written statement from her kids doctor that her children are exempt from the schools requirement for immunizations. I think I would have done the same had something happened to one of my kids.

Blessings,

Garsy



bluewolf030 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/17/2006 5:52:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jess75

I am interested to hear peoples opinions/experiences. We have a 10 week old, and have so far decided not to get her immunized. I had read where it causes lupus, and other auto immune disorders later in life, not to mention, everything in the original post.

I think it is scary either way...do we risk her getting an illness the good old fashioned way, or risk giving it to her ourselves.

It is a hard choice...


My thoughts would be that you should talk to your doctor about this.

Most of the things you read on the internet, well I wouldnt believe much of anything that has to do with current issues. You end up with peoples opinions instead of well researched papers, that and the media tends to take a single incidence of something going wrong and blow it completely out of portion.

I would not put any credence to any research that quotes web sites as sources. Talk to your doctor and see what he says.



rebeccalynn3348 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/17/2006 9:27:31 PM)

To agapetos: If I knew I was going to be talked to like this I would have never come on here. I thought a place where Christians came to talk about issues would be much more loving and not so judgemental. You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine if you vaccinate your children but understand there ARE MANY serious concerns about this issue..many children that have been killed or irreversibly harmed by them (many of whom I know) so please take care in how you approach this issue in the future..you may really hurt someone's feelings. I think I've decided to look for another place to express my concerns and issues. Take care and God Bless, Rebecca



agapetos -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 6:51:01 AM)

quote:

understand there ARE MANY serious concerns about this issue..many children that have been killed or irreversibly harmed by them
Yes there are MANY serious concerns. That's why this discussion needs to come with supporting facts with it.

The doctor that I was thinking of is a Dr Andrew Wakefield. He carried out research into the MMR jab and concluded certain facts from it. How large was his study? Twelve children. TWELVE All of these children had been referred because of problems they'd been experiencing (gastro probs). At the same time he was being paid to find out if children who'd had the MMR jab had been damaged because of it. Some of the children were involved in both studies.

Yes autism has increased ~ but until recently Asperger's wasn't classed as autism. The spectrum for autism has changed. It's very hard to say that in 1960 there was 1 in 100 children who had autism and today it is one in 30 because of vaccinations ~ simply because we don't know for sure what either statistics represent.

quote:

Japanese scientists say they have strong evidence that the MMR vaccination is not linked to a rise in autism after they found a rise in the incidence of autism after the withdrawal of the measles, mumps and rubella jab in their country in 1993.

The researchers from the Yokohama Rehabilitation Center and the Institute of Psychiatry looked at the incidence of autism spectrum disorders among 31,426 children up to the age of seven born from 1988 to 1996.

There were between 48 cases per 10,000 children born in 1988.The rate was steadily seen to rise to 117.2 per 10,000 for those born in 1996 - after MMR had been withdrawn.
From here.

quote:

please take care in how you approach this issue in the future..you may really hurt someone's feelings
I'd rather hurt someone's feelings than have a child hurt through someone not giving full facts about something out. This includes the effects of what happens if a child gets a preventable disease (including that a woman who's pregnant serious risks harming her unborn child if she contracts rubella)

quote:

I think I've decided to look for another place to express my concerns and issues.
That's your choice. You're free to express your concerns and issues anywhere you wish ~ but you need to be doing so with full facts.



manda59 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 7:44:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348
To agapetos: If I knew I was going to be talked to like this I would have never come on here. I thought a place where Christians came to talk about issues would be much more loving and not so judgemental. You are entitled to your opinion and that is fine if you vaccinate your children but understand there ARE MANY serious concerns about this issue..many children that have been killed or irreversibly harmed by them (many of whom I know) so please take care in how you approach this issue in the future..you may really hurt someone's feelings. I think I've decided to look for another place to express my concerns and issues. Take care and God Bless, Rebecca



And many children have been killed or seriously harmed by contracting childhood diseases that they wouldn't have caught if they'd been immunised. Vulnerable adults, those with depressed immune systems, have also been killed or seriously harmed by contracting diseases from unvaccinated children.

I know some of these too.

It would be interesting to compare the figures, to see which actually represents the greater risk.



Sunnymom -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 8:00:25 AM)

I have had physicians that were very honest and up-front about the effects of immunizations, and others who were blatently dishonest. This is one of those questions that parents must answer with their own insights and instincts, after careful research and prayer.

IMO, there is no right or wrong answer. You want to immunize- go ahead. You don't want to take the risks associated with immunizations, then don't give them to your child. I had my first and second born children immunized, but my dd had bad reactions to them, so I stopped. When my youngest was born, the pediatrician gave him the Hib w/o my permission. The doc was able to successfully have his head re-attached.

My youngest has only received a couple of immunizations since then(MMR, polio, and 2 DPT). I will probably continue immunizing him at a very slow rate as he gets older, and ditto my dd. There is NO reason for kids to cram every single shot into a 2-3 year period. Feel free to have your own immunization schedule, separate the shots, and space them out so that you can get a clear picture of how they are reacting, and what they are reacting to.

BTW, when my firstborn went into the Army, it did not matter that he had his immunization records, and that he was totally up-to-date. He had even received a MMR booster and a tetanus shot only a few months before enlisting- they gave him the ENTIRE BOATLOAD of immunizations again anyway, including another tetanus.[&:]



iluvatar -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 8:28:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rebeccalynn3348

To agapetos: If I knew I was going to be talked to like this I would have never come on here. I thought a place where Christians came to talk about issues would be much more loving and not so judgemental.


Fortunately, there are many Christians who do not fit the touchy, feely, limited thought capacity, go-along-with-anything stereotype.

If you're going to sound alarms about such a serious and technical issue, then you better know your stuff and be able to back up your position. If you are unable to answer the mild challenges raised here, then I question whether you should be speaking in public on this subject.

-Dan.



SarahsDaughter -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 9:26:18 AM)

quote:

If you're going to sound alarms about such a serious and technical issue, then you better know your stuff and be able to back up your position.


Exactly. And give some alternatives too. Don't just unleash a watershed of BEWARES and not be prepared to at least offer some alternatives to vaccinations (especially if you're someone who lectures on the subject!) And why run off when your position is challenged? Why not use that as an opportunity to shed more light on a subject that you feel you are well versed in. Dropping a bomb and then running for the hills is no help to anyone.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 9:36:17 AM)

I must agree with the others.

We vaccinate, thought i have always had some concerns about it. It is a struggle for me to balance in my mind--there may be side-effects to vaccines, and some children probably should not be vaccinated. *But*, my husband is from a country where children still die from common diseases that we vaccinate against, and we intend to go back there some day. I'd like my kids to be protected. In our case, right now, the benefits outweigh the risk. This next baby may get it's vaxes on a delayed schedule, but I doubt we will ever quite vaxing altogether unless we have a child who gets severe reactions.



garsyt -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 10:26:13 AM)

quote:

In our case, right now, the benefits outweigh the risk.


that's how it is here too. I don't want to take the risk of my child getting something that is easily vaccinated against. With the way people travel today it would be easy for some unvaccinated person to contract something and not know it for days and have traveled to yet another country, come in contact with another unvaccinated person and thus spreading the problem even further. And it would go on and on. Now if we were hermits and self-sufficient and never saw nor heard from another human being - then there would not be a need for me to vaccinate - but because of the medical condition my ds has to deal with on a daily basis and because my kids and I are active members of our community and are in contact with others - I don't want to take the risk that may end with my child getting sick with something that is preventable at least and in the case of my ds - could be DEADLY if medical attention is not provided quickly.

And to answer the question about if it is a lack of faith to provide my kids with vaccinations. I don't think so. God gave me a brain. I like to think that I'm a good Mom that has the needs and well-being of her children foremost in her mind. If it were a lack of faith - do you think that God would have given the scientist and doctors the talents they have to create such products and immunzations to protect people? I don't see anywhere in the bible that seeing a dr. or taken preventitive measures is seen as a lack of faith. Please show me if there is such a passage.

Blessings,

Garsy



Ps103 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 10:36:20 AM)

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nicole6598 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 3:33:21 PM)

about the faith thing, i have heard from some christians who are against this, that it is the govt trying to control us etc and before the vaccines there wasn't that much bad stuff happening for no reason to kids, i don't know that is just what they say.
But can't we have faith and believe God's Word that says he heals of our diseases etc and that we won't get sick? I don't know , i am one who has vaccinated, just asking.



garsyt -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 3:58:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nicole6598

about the faith thing, i have heard from some christians who are against this, that it is the govt trying to control us etc and before the vaccines there wasn't that much bad stuff happening for no reason to kids, i don't know that is just what they say.
But can't we have faith and believe God's Word that says he heals of our diseases etc and that we won't get sick? I don't know , i am one who has vaccinated, just asking.


See I've heard that too. and I truly believe that God DOES heal. But God also tells us in his word to be wise with what he's given to us and to me that means our health and well-being and health of those he has given us responsibility of. To me that means my choice to vaccinate is valid because, in my opinion I am choosing to care for the health and well-being of my children in a way I deem appropriate.

Blessings,

Garsy



garsyt -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 4:11:17 PM)

I just went and googled Measles and small pox and came up with a plethora of webpages discussing out breaks all over the world. Now I didn't read too many of these but some of the dates I saw dated into the 1800's and early 1900's, surely before vaccinations were available. So yes bad things happened. Children, I'm sure, died due to things that kids are now vaccinated against.

I'm not saying that all the claims of autism being linked with vaccinations and other issues don't carry merit - I'm sure that there may be links in some cases, but there certainly are many kids that have had the vaccinations that have never had any issues as well, so there has got to be more to it then just a vaccination causing something like autism. (Sorry for such a run-on sentence[8D])

Blessings,

Garsy



WilmaF -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 4:35:17 PM)

Just try and keep in mind that a lot of these people who make a lot of money selling books and other things like supplements and devices are quacks! I'm sympathetic in regards to the people who have a child who is anything less than healthy/normal for lack of a better term. It's human nature to be angry and want to blame someone or something and seek compensation. Just don't let yourself be victimized by people who tell you what you want to hear instead of telling you the truth. I'm sure there is at least one nut out there with a web site who has "proven" that the increasing risk of autism has nothing to do with vaccines but that it has to do with people have babies at older ages and/or because of STD's etc. It's the same as the mercury in dental fillings issue. If it were that harmful a whole lot more people would have MS...



Christina124 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 5:10:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WilmaF

Just try and keep in mind that a lot of these people who make a lot of money selling books and other things like supplements and devices are quacks! I'm sympathetic in regards to the people who have a child who is anything less than healthy/normal for lack of a better term. It's human nature to be angry and want to blame someone or something and seek compensation. Just don't let yourself be victimized by people who tell you what you want to hear instead of telling you the truth. I'm sure there is at least one nut out there with a web site who has "proven" that the increasing risk of autism has nothing to do with vaccines but that it has to do with people have babies at older ages and/or because of STD's etc. It's the same as the mercury in dental fillings issue. If it were that harmful a whole lot more people would have MS...


Autism is a genetic thing.....no one knows what causes it. I know, my child has Autism and possible Fragile X. Parents can be carriers of ALL kinds of genetic problems and never know it until they have kids. I have three kids, never smoked or drank during pregnancy, took my vitamins, walked a lot, ate good foods (no junk), and STILL had ONE child out of three with Autism and other problems. I am 30 so it can't be my age because I married young and had her at 18. And, if shots caused Autism....I would think many more people would have it (unless they do not know). There are many levels of Autism From High-functioning (like my child) to Severe and no two children with it are alike. Some are hard to diagnose. There are even more people walking around with Fragile X than known as most doctors don't even think to check for it. Could shots cause Autism or more? Who knows? With all the junk we put into our bodies......some genetic mutation could just come out of that. Scientists aren’t certain what causes autism, but it’s likely that both genetics and environment play a role.

To end that note...think of this: From ONLY what is reported so far, One in every 166 children born in the US have autism.
# FACT: For between 2% and 6% of all children diagnosed with autism, the cause is the Fragile X gene mutation.
# FACT: Approximately one-third of all children diagnosed with fragile X syndrome also have autism.
Fragile X syndrome is the most common inherited cause of mental impairment. The syndrome occurs in approximately 1 in 3600 males and 1 in 4000 to 6000 females.
# FACT: Fragile X syndrome is the most common known single gene cause of autism.

Backing up facts:
http://www.fragilex.org
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/autism/detail_autism.htm
http://www.tacanow.com/latest_autism_statistics.htm



Sunnymom -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 5:44:00 PM)

Excuse me, WilmaF, but don't be intimating that homeschooling is a form of extremism, k? That would just NOT be a nice thing to do.[;)]



Christina124 -> RE: Vaccines:The truth behind the shot (11/18/2006 5:52:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WilmaF

Why do you think this whole home-schooling, anti-vaccination, alternative medicine extremism has become so popular among fundamentalist christians?


#1 My PS failed (as in could not help) my child but, I can't speak for all PS as a whole. My child does much better at home instead of a room by herself all day because teachers did not know what to do; their words to me not mine.
#2 My kids have had all shots
#3 I will give my kids and have given my children medication if they need it.
#4 Please, Please educate yourself before you comment; that IS a pet peeve of mine.
#5 If you consider a Methodist a Fundamentalist.....man do some more research.
Lastly, #6 I know NO home schooler like you've just described.



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