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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 10:54:45 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sjdawson
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
Just think about how you and your fellow christians treat other crossdressers, would you welcome them into the church and reject the sin and love the sinner as we're called, or would you force them out of the church?
I am on staff at my church and if he came dressed as a woman flaunting what we believe to be sinful behavior, he would be asked to leave the service.
If he came dressed as a man confessing that he was struggling with the sin of crossdressing; had a repentent heart, and desired our help to change, we would welcome him with open arms.
We would also ask a drug addict or an alchoholic who came to a church service in an obviously high/intoxicated state to leave the service.
And
quote:
Bro_Shane:
If they came to the service dressed as the opposite sex then they would respectfully be asked to leave. If it was a member then I would treat them with love and respect, as I would anyone. I would also treat them as I would anyone who brings a reproach on the church. I would go to them one on one. If that didn't work (meaning they stop doing this) then I would take a few with me. If that didn't work then it would be brought before the church and they would, regretfully, be turned out.
We are clled to love, but we are not called to accept anything for the sake of love. Christ does not, that is why He died on the cross, to free us of such things. Christ did not shed His blood so that we may continue on with whatever we like without having to feel guilty. He came ot make us new, not comfortable.
As I was reading these 2 posts an old hymn went through my mind...Just as I am. If someone shows up at church, generally they are in need. Turning them away because they don't fit the particular sins that we are used to dealing with is downright unchristian. So what someone shows up dressed different? Are you showing them the love of Christ by asking them to leave? What does that do for them? Christ will accept them for what they are...Just as they are...
Steve
I have an entire congregation to look after. If this person really is in need, and wasn't born under a rock in the Congo, they know you don't come to church dressed as the opposite sex. The meeting of the congregation in the local church service is for worship and edification of the body.
Christ does not accept people for what they are, just as they are. If He does, then he was crucified for nothing. Christ does not accept just anything, else why would He come and die so that we may change? What you say here is a bold-faced lie, and a lie from the depths of Hell.
This warm and fuzzy stuff is what is killing our churches and will cause countless others to follow a false gospel right through the front doors of Hell. If you would read your Bible more closely youwould see this entire idea of yours is worthless blather.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 12:10:48 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2371
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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quote:
Christ does not accept people for what they are, just as they are. If He does, then he was crucified for nothing. Christ does not accept just anything, else why would He come and die so that we may change? What you say here is a bold-faced lie, and a lie from the depths of Hell.
The only requirement I know of is to be a "whosoever believes".
Jesus accepted me when I was a filthy lying whore.
Yes, I said that word because that is exactly what I was.
I believed who He said He was, and He accepted me, filth and all.
THEN HE WASHED ME AND MADE ME CLEAN.
I didn't have to clean myself up before I came to Him.
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 1:11:46 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3142
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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I think what some are missing here is that yes, God can forgive anyone for anything and yes sinners should be welcomed in our churches. Yet, when they come to the House of the Lord, they should have an attitude of humility, respect and reverence and not expect to flaunt their sin there.
Let's just go over some of the sins that were previously mentioned from I Corinthians 6:
1. Fornicators...should you be permitted to have sex in church?
2. Idolators...should you be permitted to bring a little Buddah and bow before it in church?
3. Adulterers...should you be permitted to bring your girlfriend to church when everone there knows you are married to someone else?
4. Thieves...should you be permitted to steal from the collection plate?
5. Drunkards...should you be permitted to come to church wiped out of your mind?
And finally...
6. Effeminate or Crossdressers...should you be permitted to come to chuch in your dress, makeup and stilettoes?
Does anyone get my drift here?
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 1:33:25 PM
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accntable
Posts: 52
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I think what some are missing here is that yes, God can forgive anyone for anything and yes sinners should be welcomed in our churches. Yet, when they come to the House of the Lord, they should have an attitude of humility, respect and reverence and not expect to flaunt their sin there.
Let's just go over some of the sins that were previously mentioned from I Corinthians 6:
1. Fornicators...should you be permitted to have sex in church?
2. Idolators...should you be permitted to bring a little Buddah and bow before it in church?
3. Adulterers...should you be permitted to bring your girlfriend to church when everone there knows you are married to someone else?
4. Thieves...should you be permitted to steal from the collection plate?
5. Drunkards...should you be permitted to come to church wiped out of your mind?
And finally...
6. Effeminate or Crossdressers...should you be permitted to come to chuch in your dress, makeup and stilettoes?
Does anyone get my drift here?
Yes, I certainly do. Makes sense to me!
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 2:23:36 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw3
The only requirement I know of is to be a "whosoever believes".
You are speaking of coming to Christ in saving faith, of salvation. Anyone, in any state of dress, may come to saving faith if they believe. The question at hand is what about those who say they believe yet hold attitudes and engage in behavior that does not glorify God, edify the body, and brings a reproach on the local church.
Jesus died (and rose again) so that we could be saved. Salvation is the starting point at which God begins to change us. Salvation is not a free pass to do as we wish. It is not a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card.
quote:
Jesus accepted me when I was a filthy lying whore.
Yes, I said that word because that is exactly what I was.
Praise God for you! Two things:
First, Christ did not accept you as the word is commonly used. God accepted your belief (your faith), regardless of the state you were in when you believed. At the point of saving faith you were justified and God began the process of sanctification in you. This leads to my second point - note your grammar here (in bold). It is what you were, not wht you still are. This is my point.
quote:
I believed who He said He was, and He accepted me, filth and all.
THEN HE WASHED ME AND MADE ME CLEAN.
I didn't have to clean myself up before I came to Him.
Yes, and I am not disputing that at all. Neither am I asserting that any work on our behalf will gain us one iota of standing with God. My point is what happens after that. The entire New Testament witnesses to the fact that we are not in a static state being. We are not saved then left alone to do whatever seems right to us. My point is that Christ died to save us so that God can work through us and in us to make us into what He wants us to be.
< Message edited by Bro_Shane -- 7/5/2007 2:31:19 PM >
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 2:48:03 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw3
quote:
Christ does not accept people for what they are, just as they are. If He does, then he was crucified for nothing. Christ does not accept just anything, else why would He come and die so that we may change? What you say here is a bold-faced lie, and a lie from the depths of Hell.
The only requirement I know of is to be a "whosoever believes".
Jesus accepted me when I was a filthy lying whore.
Yes, I said that word because that is exactly what I was.
I believed who He said He was, and He accepted me, filth and all.
THEN HE WASHED ME AND MADE ME CLEAN.
I didn't have to clean myself up before I came to Him.
And God accepted me when I repented from being a mean drunk.
The key part here is "Then he washed me and made me clean".
I am sure that when you (or I) became a Believer that we did not stay the same because of the love of God and the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Would you that if you showed up at Church is whatever a ***** wears, cursing, making dates for the "Dew Drop In" or what ever that you were truely saved; or just had a moment of regret for your life and tried to fix it in the flesh.
Sadly I meet folks every day who think they have become Christians, but who only had a little sorrow over their life.
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Memaw, I am so glad that we serve a Saviour that will love us even in our sin before we accept him.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 11:23:15 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
This warm and fuzzy stuff is what is killing our churches and will cause countless others to follow a false gospel right through the front doors of Hell. If you would read your Bible more closely youwould see this entire idea of yours is worthless blather.
_____________________________
I put the "FUN" in fundamentalist.
Brother Shane, luv you brother in the Lord, but your comment and your motto seemed surrealistic put together like that. Can you reconcile being a "fun" fundamentalist in the meanwhile saying what you said? Thanks brother :) ((no harm meant, just thought it was ironic like that))
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/5/2007 11:28:24 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
Joined: 1/23/2006
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Memaw,, no worse than me, shortly before I came back to the Lord January 2006, i was out nighclubbing and dancing till all hours of the nite, and morning, half undressed and I sure acted like the whore but without pay. But God had mercy on me a sinner, and I would have come to church sooner with all ya'll nice and upright Christians, but I felt like a hypocrite and would not give God 1/2 of myself, and I didn't think I'd be accepted.
Thats why I am so the way I am,, these scarey thoughts of being unworthy and hypocrite kept me out of church, not blaming ya'll but I just didn't want to go where i wasn't wanted. I never want to be like that .. to make someone not feel good enough to come join in the church.
Where else are they gonna find some help?
If you see the movie The Apostle, with that one really cool part about the guy who was gonna plow down the church with a truck, literally, and they just confronted the guy and were very loving toward him and prayed with him and he got saved. That was cool...!!!!
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 1:16:55 AM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2371
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
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I posted earlier but deleted it because I wanted to really think about what I want to say.
Hopefully I can get it across right.
quote:
Yet, when they come to the House of the Lord, they should have an attitude of humility, respect and reverence and not expect to flaunt their sin there.
Kat,
Sinners don't know they are in sin until the Holy Spirit convicts their heart.
We can't expect them to act like they are saved until they are saved.
quote:
what about those who say they believe yet hold attitudes and engage in behavior that does not glorify God, edify the body, and brings a reproach on the local church.
Bro_Shane
So we are talking about most people in the church?
The "holier than thou" sister who sits on the front row on Sunday morning with her hands raised and singing praises to the top of her voice, yet the night before she was on the phone gossiping or how about the brother who takes the scripture of wife submit yourself to your husband to the extreme and browbeats her every chance he gets (out of earshot of pastor of course)...are those the ones we are talking about?
Are we talking about me, the one who still has anger issues, the one who is still a work in progress, who has a hard time letting go of past issues?
Each of us has at times done things, said things or thought things that should have been brought before the congregation for rebuke.
Man, I remember going to a Baptist church when I was 14 yrs old (1976), and a couple of women came in WITH PANTSUITS ON!!!!!
The preacher stopped the service and told those ladies they had to leave because it was SIN! to be in pants in church.
Who was the one in sin?
The women or the pastor?
Has any of us ever sat in a service with anger in our hearts, with selfish motives for being there (speak to ME Lord, what about ME?).
John 8:32 KJV
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
I grew up thinking that said the truth shall set you free, but a few years ago I realized it said make you free.
Being set free is instantaneous, being made free is something that happens over time.
Paul said the things I want to do I don't do, and the things I don't want to do I do. (Paraphrased by me)
We are all works in progress, none of us have "arrived" and if we believe that Jesus is the only Son of the Living God, then we are all washed by that same blood and none of us are any holier than any other child of God.
Paul says this is a race, right?
Some of us run a bit faster and some of us have short legs and run slow (me  ), but we are all on that same track.
There is no hard and fast rule as to how quickly one matures and "lays down the things of the flesh".
What you may lay down today may have been laid down 10 years ago by someone else.
What I struggle with today you may have won the struggle with the second you were saved.
Do you understand where I am coming from?
R.C.
quote:
Memaw, I am so glad that we serve a Saviour that will love us even in our sin before we accept him.
O AMEN!
God is so good, even when I do step in the manure and get all stinky.
He loves me and just like the prodigal son, He holds His arms open for me to run into.
Now, I am no theologian, no philosopher, never went past the 11th grade in High School, but I do know this one thing.
Jesus said to come to Him all who are weary and heavy laden and He will give us rest.
Man, I want that rest, I don't want to be burdened down by ridiculous laws of don't touch, don't say, don't don't don't.
Jesus is freedom, not freedom to just walk around and "whatever feels good do it", but freedom to live, freedom to enjoy life, freedom to love one another without having to eagle eye them to see what sin they are committing now.
I hope you all understand what I am trying to say here...I really do.
Love y'all
Kim
_____________________________
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.
Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it's gone
and gone for a long, long time."
Ronald Reagan
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 2:32:01 AM
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maidalyssa
Posts: 26
Joined: 6/26/2007
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Memaw,
I think I can explain it best because I actually agree with Bro_Shane, accntable and Kat_D on this one.
I personally would never set foot in my church as Alyssa, not because I disagree with them, not because of this or that reason....
Its called Respect. Respect for the Church and its Pastor is what drives the alcoholics not to come to church drunk, or the stoners stoned, or the sinners to bring their sin inside the church to make a statement or open rebellion.
When I come to church, its to hear the word of God, its not to make a statement about what is wrong or what is right.
I come to listen and learn from the message that the Pastor is preaching, (and I'm sure I'll be called a hypocrite in the very next post.)
When I come to church, I leave the swear words home, why? Respect. I admit I swear like a truck driver, I admit I have a problem with my ultra-colorful language, but I DONT bring that language to church. (and I try to avoid it in the blogs too)
now for your example about the lady with the pantsuit on that got called on the carpet for sinning, that WASNT SIN OF CONVICTION TO HER, whatever, its out of respect for the Pastor and the Church and what is being taught, the lady didnt argue with the Pastor, went home not because he's wrong or right, not because its biblical or not, not because she agrees or disagrees, not because she is willingly making a statement (which is sounds like she wasnt trying to make a statement at all) Would the lady have burned in hell? Nope, but open rebellion within the church isnt tolerated. The Pastor ALWAYS has the final say.
In the Church, the Pastor makes the rules, sorry but its the truth. Whether or not YOU FEEL these rules are biblical or not, the Pastor makes the rules in the House of God. Not because he knows more than you do, or that he's smarter than you, always Respect your Pastor and abide by the rules of the church.
sure you can question it, bring it to him and ask why, but ultimately the Pastor is always right.
and Church rules differ.. plain and simple. some prefer their women in dresses and their men wearing ties and suits on sunday morning, some are more casual. Some encourage dancing in the isles and have loud music and drums, some prefer to hold back the dance and lose the loud music, electric guitars and lose the drums... are they sin? no... HOWEVER Church Rules is Church rules.
Dont outrightly defy the church or the Pastor to make a statement.
Now there are some that feel these rules extend into the home, do they? Was she sinning if she wears a pantsuit in the home? Does she feel convicted? Is it real conviction or imagined?
sometimes we forget to use the simple words "TO ME" as in "is it a sin TO ME?"
Sometimes one person feels convicted and its a sin TO THEM, while the same thing to somebody else brings no conviction at all.
Bro_Shane might be convicted when he attends an "R" rated movie and he feels the need to repent or skip the movie entirely. Kat_D might feel convicted after only one drink or when she hears secular music on the radio so she turns it off. IMA_Christian might go see that "R" rated movie and feel no conviction at all. Who's to say she sinned?
I might enjoy listening to Blue Oyster Cult's GODZILLA, but to accntable, listening to secular Rock'n'Roll is a sin of conviction. Its fine for me, but not fine for him and if you feel its going to make him stumble, you should not do it around him for it might lead him into temptation.
(and please...please...PLEASE dont nit-pick my post apart, guys... I actually am really trying to form a point here) I honestly hope my presence in the forum hasnt caused anyone to stumble.
_____________________________
"If it aint broken... fix it anyway"
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 8:50:30 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1671
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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hi Alyssa !
how are ya?
I have to kindly disagree with where the Pastor makes the rules,, I mean yes he does, but im having a hard time with that if the rules are made to make a person feel not welcome in a place where they ought to feel welcome. A sinner has to start somewhere, and i thought we just come to Jesus just as we are, sin, dirty, clean, and all, and now we can hear some life changing things. but if the congregation are kicking poeple out, where can they find help? Especially if the person is just coming in to hear, to listen, and maybe to sing and they are minding their own business, and not causing any harm except maybe their clothes are a distraction to some of the congregation, but where are they gonna go except to the House of God to be abe to change?
ha! I just thought of something - remember where the Samaritan lady came to Jesus for something she needed really bad and he said that the bread of the children is not given to dogs. But she said 'well even the dogs get the crumbs from the Master's table" and jesus was so impressed with her faith and insistence that he marveled and thats why we read about her story in the Gospels. I dont recall Jesus as ever kicking anyone out from him except this lady but then he gave in to her.
_____________________________
I'm just one of those Calvinistic robots for the Lord :)
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 9:52:32 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
This warm and fuzzy stuff is what is killing our churches and will cause countless others to follow a false gospel right through the front doors of Hell. If you would read your Bible more closely youwould see this entire idea of yours is worthless blather.
_____________________________
I put the "FUN" in fundamentalist.
Brother Shane, luv you brother in the Lord, but your comment and your motto seemed surrealistic put together like that. Can you reconcile being a "fun" fundamentalist in the meanwhile saying what you said? Thanks brother :) ((no harm meant, just thought it was ironic like that))
The comment was that Jesus accepted us "just as we are." This is not true the way it was written. God accepts our believing faith which leads to salvation. He does not, from that point on, just wink and look the other way so that we can remain in whatever sin we were in before conversion. The idea that God sees our faults and accepts them as part of the package is untrue. He sees our faults and begins changing us into what Hw wants us to be.
This idea that we must just accept anything in the name of "love" is wrong adn nothing in scripture backs it up. I'm not saying we should start tossing people out left and right because we don't like them or their ways. What I am saying is that you can love the person while not accepting the rebellion against God, which is sin. It is this acceptance that is killing churches and shipwrecking the faith of many.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw3
Bro_Shane
So we are talking about most people in the church?
No. Most people in the church do not come dressed as someone of the opposite sex.
quote:
The "holier than thou" sister who sits on the front row on Sunday morning with her hands raised and singing praises to the top of her voice, yet the night before she was on the phone gossiping or how about the brother who takes the scripture of wife submit yourself to your husband to the extreme and browbeats her every chance he gets (out of earshot of pastor of course)...are those the ones we are talking about?
Not specifically, as this conversation is focused on crossdressers. If you would like my opinion on those specific examples I would be gald to give them in another thread, or you could PM me.
quote:
Are we talking about me, the one who still has anger issues, the one who is still a work in progress, who has a hard time letting go of past issues?
If you cause disorder or a disturbance within the body you would be spoken to by someone. If you did it at a worship service youwould be asked to leave until you calmed down. If you came to church both mad and dressed as a man you would be asked to leave.
Perhaps the fault is mine for not being as clear as I could here. I am not taking about drumming someone out of church (and off the church roll) for having anger issues, gossip, or even crosdressing without first approaching them per scriptural guidelines. What I am taking about here is people who come to a worship service and cause a disturbance, thus contradicting the scriptural command for things to be done decently and in order.
If a person in the church has this problem they would be approached with both respect and love about it. We would pray for and with them. They would be given time to repent. If they did not then, per scripture, it would be taken before the church. If they refused to stop and repent then, and only then, would they be removed from the body. This would be those who crossdress, gossip, beat their wives, are drunkards, fornicators, and even those who can not control their angry outbursts.
If a person shows up out of the blue to visit and causes a disturbance at a worship service they will be asked to leave. If they come as a crossdresser, naked, drunk and yelling, it doesn't matter. Again, as a pastor, I have an entire congregation to look after. The worship service is not the place to has these things out.
quote:
Each of us has at times done things, said things or thought things that should have been brought before the congregation for rebuke.
Yes, we have.
quote:
Man, I remember going to a Baptist church when I was 14 yrs old (1976), and a couple of women came in WITH PANTSUITS ON!!!!!
The preacher stopped the service and told those ladies they had to leave because it was SIN! to be in pants in church.
The silliness of some does not detract from the truth of what I am saying. A woman wearing pants made for women does not fit the bill here.
quote:
Who was the one in sin?
The women or the pastor?
They both were:
Romans 14:19-23 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. [20] For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. [21] It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. [22] Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. [23] And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
quote:
Has any of us ever sat in a service with anger in our hearts, with selfish motives for being there (speak to ME Lord, what about ME?).
This is outside the issue, and I believe I have dealt with it already.
quote:
John 8:32 KJV
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
I grew up thinking that said the truth shall set you free, but a few years ago I realized it said make you free.
Being set free is instantaneous, being made free is something that happens over time.
There is not a single word for "make" in this verse. The Greek is eleutheroô, which means "to make free" or "to deliver." It is the same word used here:
Romans 6:18 Being then made free [ eleutheroô ] from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
The idea is that which happens in an instant. I mean no disrespect, but you are incorrect here.
quote:
Paul said the things I want to do I don't do, and the things I don't want to do I do. (Paraphrased by me)
Read the entire passage and you will find that it speaks of what I am taking about.
quote:
We are all works in progress, none of us have "arrived" and if we believe that Jesus is the only Son of the Living God, then we are all washed by that same blood and none of us are any holier than any other child of God.
This is also not correct. If you had said "none of us are more righteous" you would have been correct. Holiness and righteousness are not the same thing.
quote:
Paul says this is a race, right?
Some of us run a bit faster and some of us have short legs and run slow (me ), but we are all on that same track.
There is no hard and fast rule as to how quickly one matures and "lays down the things of the flesh".
What you may lay down today may have been laid down 10 years ago by someone else.
What I struggle with today you may have won the struggle with the second you were saved.
Do you understand where I am coming from?
There is a difference between a struggle and feeling bad (or not feeling guilty at all) for continuing to behave a certain way. We are all tempted, but there is a difference between being tempted to fall into a ditch and jumping headlong into the ditch.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 10:37:01 AM
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maidalyssa
Posts: 26
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline
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IMA_christian,
I think there would be a greater problem if someone came to the church seeking something as a first time visitor and they had already transitioned to 24/7 female. In this case, the person is living full time as a woman and assumes her new gender in society. I would agree that kicking out or making this person go home and change isnt acceptable.
the other thing is clothing itself, Kat_D mentioned stilettos, again do regular women wear stilettos and fishnet stockings to church? No, they dont. So that would be unacceptable. Exceptions might be made for a first time visitor or a guest of an attending regular.
If a Pastor kicked out a first time visitor or guest of mine that I'd brought to church, I'd never come back.
This is clearly not the way to attract new visitors, and the Pastors know they have to have an open heart for the lost before they can win them over to Christ.
Clearly we're not talking about the norm though, we're talking about a very small percentage of times when the Pastor would make such a call to dismiss someone.... and like Memaw said.. the year was 1976, times are a'changin'.
< Message edited by maidalyssa -- 7/6/2007 10:40:08 AM >
_____________________________
"If it aint broken... fix it anyway"
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 12:15:38 PM
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peg623
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 1:38:14 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3142
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peg623
I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
I have a very hard time with equating racial prejudice with what is being discussed in this thread. It has become common practice for people involved in lifestyles of this type to make this comparison and it is wrong. They are not synonymous with each other.
There will always be churches that are willing to compromise on issues like this so that they can attract more people to their congregations and escape criticism. But, at what cost? These churches remove what they don't like from Scripture, misinterpret what offends them and take the Word out of context in order to justify sin.
That said, God willing, there will also always be churches that stand of the Word of God in its entirety, teach the Scriptures exegetically, and refuse to be shamed or intimidated into doing anything else but.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 3:57:00 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw3
My point in my post was obviously not understood.
So instead of trying again <sigh>, I will just take my leave of this thread.
Y'all have a good day 
No, I understood it quite well. You just insist on placing the same standard for the starting point (salvation and justification) to the rest of the Christian life (sanctification). I'm sorry, but the witness of the entire New Testament shows this is not so.
quote:
ORIGINAL: peg623
I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
I, myself, would feel ashamed if I had made such an insulting remark towards black people. If you can not see the inherent silliness of this argument (not to mention it is insulting), then this is probably a waste of time - but here goes, and slowly:
1. Black people do not choose to be black
2. Crossdressers choose to crossdress
3. There is no proof at all (zero, zilch, nada, none) that "transgenderism" is anything more than a psychiatric disorder. As much as people may want it to be otherwise, there is nothing that shows a biological or physiological cause
4. The stupidity of other people has no bearing on truth
I could also include that dressing and acting with dignity has nothing at all to do with the matter at hand but, seeing as how this just keeps getting more and more silly as worldly pop-psych keeps intruding, I feel it would be a loss.
So far, folks are heavy on opinion, light on scripture. This should tell you something.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 4:12:35 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1265
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peg623
I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
Wow! What does this have to do with the subject?
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 5:06:34 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17121
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
quote:
ORIGINAL: peg623
I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
Wow! What does this have to do with the subject?
absolutely nothing.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/6/2007 11:37:40 PM
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peg623
Posts: 13
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: peg623
I can remember back in the early 50's when black persons who attempted to attend my church were told they need to go to their own churches. This was the reality in most "white" churches. In the future transgendered persons who dress and act with dignity will be welcome in most churches as black persons are today.
I have a very hard time with equating racial prejudice with what is being discussed in this thread. It has become common practice for people involved in lifestyles of this type to make this comparison and it is wrong. They are not synonymous with each other.
There will always be churches that are willing to compromise on issues like this so that they can attract more people to their congregations and escape criticism. But, at what cost? These churches remove what they don't like from Scripture, misinterpret what offends them and take the Word out of context in order to justify sin.
That said, God willing, there will also always be churches that stand of the Word of God in its entirety, teach the Scriptures exegetically, and refuse to be shamed or intimidated into doing anything else but.
My point is that blacks face discrimination and hate crimes as do transgendered persons. Any of you and this includes Bro Shane can argue with me all you want but the reality is that being transgendered is NOT a lifestyle choice and we were born and not made. Being who we are is not sinful. God alone judges what is sinful. No where in the scriptures other than Deut. 22:5 is there reference to clothing. Jesus made no statements. Why would anyone choose to be condemned and rediculed? I would love the opportunity of talking face to face with any of you and hope many would not hide behind their computer keyboards.
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/7/2007 12:07:40 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3142
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
Being who we are is not sinful. God alone judges what is sinful. No where in the scriptures other than Deut. 22:5 is there reference to clothing. Jesus made no statements.
There is discussion on page 14 on the the I Corinthians 6 verses. I am completely convinced that the Scriptures are very clear that this behavior is a sin and nothing will make me believe otherwise.
quote:
I would love the opportunity of talking face to face with any of you and hope many would not hide behind their computer keyboards.
No thank you. I don't know you...and I'm not hiding. I'm just being safe.
You continue to insist crossdressing is not a sin. Okay, have it your way. I will not argue the point with you any further.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Transgenderism/Crossdressing One Stop thread - 7/7/2007 12:36:35 AM
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N-E-W-S
Posts: 25
Status: offline
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I believe that crossdressing in public is sinful. Also, I have no desire to fool anyone as to what my gender is either.
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