RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (Full Version)

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John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:07:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: momfree
Don't now why this hit a nerve, maybe because I'm grateful and love my hair even if it looks bad lol..but it's my hair and I would never date or marry a man that thought he had a say in how my hair should look.


So after you're married it would not bother you a bit if your previosuly well dressed husband decided to only wear highwater pants and loud plaid sports jackets with lots of gold chains (or come other combination that you find visually unpleasant)?



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:10:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: semperfidelis
I feel bad for women whose husbands ask them to look take care of their appearance, but the husband just "lets himself go". I know a couple like that, and it is entirely unfair. He knows the truth and does nothing. As a result, there are consequences. Respect, obedience, and submission is a two-way street. The best marriages know how to navigate that together.


Great point. I've always believed that if I want her to look good on the beach for me then I have to look good on the beach for her.



momfree -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: momfree
Don't now why this hit a nerve, maybe because I'm grateful and love my hair even if it looks bad lol..but it's my hair and I would never date or marry a man that thought he had a say in how my hair should look.


So after you're married it would not bother you a bit if your previosuly well dressed husband decided to only wear highwater pants and loud plaid sports jackets with lots of gold chains (or come other combination that you find visually unpleasant)?


Don't you think that's a stretch? Now, if a woman decided to color her hair red/white/blue and use it punk style after never having shown that side of her before I still stand by the premise it's her hair...however, I would not screech at a man that was shocked or requested some compromise if it went that far.

Women change their hairstyle....many times in their life, that's what we like to do (though some have one style their entire lives lol). It's expected! Maybe a young newlywed has extra time to invest in her lovely long hair....and then come along 1, 2 or 5 kids, school, work, cooking, cleaning, chauffering,picking up after husbands dirty laundry and giving him all the attention/time he wants in bed (I could go on and on here)

Maybe, just MAYBE she believes that cutting her hair will make it easier and quicker to style, keep it looking healthier and allow her to get ready in even less time then the already limited time she spends on herself so she can dedicate more time to YOU! ;)

Think about it. You're comparison above is apple/oranges.



InquiringMindSJ -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:21:10 PM)

quote:

So after you're married it would not bother you a bit if your previosuly well dressed husband decided to only wear highwater pants and loud plaid sports jackets with lots of gold chains (or come other combination that you find visually unpleasant)?


So, is long hair just a preference or is short hair visually unpleasant?

I want to be with someone who values health and takes care of themselves. Do I care if he has a bald head or a head full of hair, nope. Do I preferences? Sure, everyone does. Am I going to use them as a standard in regards to if I stay attracted to them or not, no way.



orientalgal -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:27:41 PM)

I just read a few of the posts and to answer to the OP, I was a little puzzled. Firstly, aren't men attracted to a woman coz of the appearance first? If so, why would the woman need to change herself ie your equivalent of how hard she would work at to be what her spouse wanted, UNLESS she wasn't herself from the beginning. That brings to memory one of my ex-colleagues - she's different when she's with guys and all of us were guessing that someday, that bubble will burst and her true self will show. Indeed it did when the guys realised who she really is, they dumped her.

I'd say, if someone is himself or herself before marriage, then what you see is what you get. Hence, nobody needs to work hard at keeping up with the other's expectations. For example, I'm a very active person. I actually met a couple of guys from Friendster in my country, though they tell me that they're fit etc, when I met them, I know that though their built is fine, I just knew they won't be jumping off planes with me, hold my hand to climb mountains with me (I'm afraid of heights, but it's a dream for me to do that with my future husband) and doing all the fun things. I'd say, I'll be bored to death if married to a person who's too serious. I think I'll only have a few major problems when I do enter marriage - getting used to having someone sleep beside me, his snoring and his smell. Not sure if you people notice but a man's bedroom always smell different from a lady's. lol! But the thing is, if I love him, then 1 cor 13 says it is unconditional, I'd love him for who he is, but of course, personal hygiene is one of my compulsory criteria. [:D]

The thing with your wife is that hers was a medical problem and hence, the marriage vow would be put to test - till death do us part. I remembered when my late neighbour met with an accident that caused him to be paralysed on one side of his body and he would need help in all his daily needs, I thought that it'd be good for him if he had a wife - at least she could take care of him.

Bottomline, if unforeseen circumstances happen, I think one ought to continue to love his/her spouse and embrace the situation together and work at it. It is NOT whether I do things to please him, but it is both of us working together to please each other. Umm...your OP made it sound like a chore, but if love exist, why would it be a chore? Meeting your spouse's expectations would come naturally/sub-consciously.



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:38:08 PM)

Posting cold here.

I have found that love has encouraged me to change for the better. Like our relationship with Christ, He is always working in our lives to become more like Him. And since marriage is a direct reflection of our relationship with Christ, I find it that you naturally desire to want to change. You also desire to support and encourage the other to change themselves, if they want to. A good sign that you have a loving and trusting relationship is when you desire to support the other person AND when you yourself have the desire to change. And this change so to speak is one that will encourage both yourself and your spouse to become more Christlike.



momfree -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 2:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orientalgal

I think I'll only have a few major problems when I do enter marriage - getting used to having someone sleep beside me, his snoring and his smell. Not sure if you people notice but a man's bedroom always smell different from a lady's. lol! [:D]



LOL orientalgal that's funny! Um...yes and I snore occassionally but I cannot sleep with someone who snores. Oh and about the smell....um yep, it's different all right. :)

I clearly remember one friends house, that when I frequented myself or with one/two other girls, just us being there changed the smell and the house was kept out more. I went to visit after a few months and I could tell there hadn't been a HINT of a woman in the place since the last time I'd been there.
The bathroom the rooms, the whole house. I even joked about it....goodness guys, it smells like men in here. I KNOW you guys haven't had any girls to come visit. They laughed and agreed I was on the money. But I must admit, as long as it's not stinky, it's nice to smell man scent sometimes lol.



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:02:07 PM)

quote:

it's nice to smell man scent sometimes lol.


LOL!

You know what's funny? When I met John for the first time, I was actually looking forward to how he smelled. [:D]

I believe it's called pherimones.



InquiringMindSJ -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:03:18 PM)

quote:

I believe it's called pherimones.


tee hee....I have a friend who bought me pherimone perfume! I think it smells nice and it puts me in a good mood!



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: momfree

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
So after you're married it would not bother you a bit if your previosuly well dressed husband decided to only wear highwater pants and loud plaid sports jackets with lots of gold chains (or come other combination that you find visually unpleasant)?


Don't you think that's a stretch?


Not at all. He's changing his appearance, she's changing hers. Same thing.

quote:

Maybe, just MAYBE she believes that cutting her hair will make it easier and quicker to style, keep it looking healthier and allow her to get ready in even less time then the already limited time she spends on herself so she can dedicate more time to YOU! ;)


Maybe, just maybe, her appearance with the longhair she had when I married her keeps her looking healthier and I don't care how long it takes her to get ready? Maybe, just maybe, I'm willing to do more around the house (I'm well trained to do everything) to give her more time to herself?

quote:

Think about it. You're comparison above is apple/oranges.


I thought about it before I posted it. It's a perfect comparison. He is changing something that according to your definition is entirely his (his appearance). She is changing something that according to your definition is entirely hers (her appearance). Why the double standard?



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:09:04 PM)

Over lunch, I was still thinking about this thread. And one thing came to me. John, I can’t possibly argue with you about the reasonableness of these requests that you are mentioning. I think we will simply have to agree to disagree on them. And oddly enough, it has more to do with the internal than it does the external. I don’t see it the way you do or think about appearance the way you do and would probably not get very far with a man that does. But I will say hold whatever desire you wish, but please make sure you tell the other party up front so that she knows what she is getting into. If you have the expectation that she will remain within however many pounds of her marriage date weight…let her know BEFORE you get too serious. At that point, if she agrees to that, well I guess that’s on her.

John said…
quote:

One thing that arises many times in conversations with other men is the 'false advertising' angle. We marry a thin women with long hair and end up with a not so thin woman with short hair (or vice versa). It seems like we've been sold a bill of goods. Now this doesn't say that we don't continue loving our wives.


I think that the only way that you were sold a bill of goods is if someone actually told thier wife about your feelings on appearances and how much you didn’t want hers to change and she agreed that she would keep herself the same way. And even then, I don’t guess I’d say you were sold a bill of goods (she’s not a car) just that she was speaking out of ignorance and was unaware of what it would actually take for her personally to be able to deliver on that promise. But otherwise….people are going to change and anyone who goes into a relationship EXPECTING that the advertised appearance is what you will have for the long haul is deceiving themselves. They aren’t being deceived by someone else and shouldn't fault anyone else for that.

John said…
quote:

I, being white, spoke more along the lines of what I'd be attracted to in a white woman. Oddly enough of the black women that I've been attracted to I really can't remember how long their hair was. How odd. (This may be a question for a different thread but when you are talking do you just assume everyone is like you until the differences show up? I mean, I never think of race or racial differences in any way in a discussion until someone brings it up. Like here, I never considered other hair types. Is that normal or am I just insulated too much?)


I’m always very well aware that I’m a minority in most places, ESPECIALLY Crosswalk. And I usually assume that I’m talking to someone of a different ethnicity...not intentionally at all. I guess I assume that most people here are white too, unless told otherwise, lol. Y’all are in the majority, so it’s a fairly safe assumption. I do tend to be a little arrogant, I guess in the fact that I often also assume that everyone here knows me [sm=icon_smile_roll.gif]…so I sometimes forget to mention that I’m Black and of course usually don’t feel the need to as it doesn’t matter for the most part. But topics on appearance always make it come up because unattractive to a black person and unattractive to a white person, I often notice, are TOTALLY different things. And appearance in general just seems to be handled so differently. Oh yeah, being southern matters too. We like to eat down here!!!!!!!!! Our men, our women…we all eat so the weight expectations just aren’t quite the same. Just different mindsets and perspectives altogether. And I suppose that's okay just so long as the person you marry knows and accepts yours and is willingly to go along with that.



mutinywxgirl -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:14:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sj3339sta

quote:

I believe it's called pherimones.


tee hee....I have a friend who bought me pherimone perfume! I think it smells nice and it puts me in a good mood!

Is that the REAL Pheremone perfume from Marily Miglin - if so, that's one nice present, as it costs $500 an ounce! [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif]



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:15:22 PM)

What's refreshing is that he actually asked me which cologne I would like for him to wear. From there, he became my living "doll". lol! I put gell in his hair, fixed it and ironed his aloha shirt. LOL!

Yes men, we women MAY use you as dolls. I never had many dolls as a child. I was more into Voltron. [:D]



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:15:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sj3339sta

quote:

So after you're married it would not bother you a bit if your previosuly well dressed husband decided to only wear highwater pants and loud plaid sports jackets with lots of gold chains (or come other combination that you find visually unpleasant)?


So, is long hair just a preference or is short hair visually unpleasant?


For me, just a preference. On almost every woman I know long hair looks better. (even just put in a pony tail and pulled through a ball cap looks amazing). I've seen some woman who looked OK, even good, with short hair but I bet they'd look even better with long.

It's one of those really nice to haves that still falls into the negotiable category. My date for tomorrow has hair between jaw-line and shoulder length. Shorter than I'd like but you take what you can get for the moment.

quote:


I want to be with someone who values health and takes care of themselves. Do I care if he has a bald head or a head full of hair, nope. Do I preferences? Sure, everyone does. Am I going to use them as a standard in regards to if I stay attracted to them or not, no way.


The attraction is the hard issue. And I truly believe that it is different here for men and women. When Michele put on her weight I was still phenomenally attracted to her inside (character etc) but not quite as attracted to her outside. Much as I tried, and much as I prayed (and I prayed a lot) there was no improvement in the attraction level at the higher weights.



InquiringMindSJ -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:16:53 PM)

quote:

Is that the REAL Pheremone perfume from Marily Miglin - if so, that's one nice present, as it costs $500 an ounce!


I don't think so. I think my friend said she paid $20 bucks or so for it. She bought if for me a year or so ago when I had a big old crush on a guy but was too whimpy to tell him...LOL!

I'm really glad now that the perfume did not work.



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:18:23 PM)

Semperfidelis & Frank I really appreciated both of your well thought out posts!!!! I couldn’t argue with either of your perspectives even if I just wanted too.

Many others have made very good points as well, but I just had to mention these because they are guys, lol. I was beginning to wonder.

I'm all in favor of all around sacrifice for God and family!!!!!!! If it needs to be done, I'm willing. If you really want me to do it and I can (as one of you so clearly and elequently explainted about some other areas where pref. can get ugly) I'm willing. But before we get to asking things of one another, I want to know already that I'm way more important to you than any one thing and that no one thing is going to make you think you somehow got a raw deal or sold a bill of goods.

I don't know...when I go home I need to know that it's a safe place for me and my family to be. I know that the world is going to judge. The world is going to see appearances only and they are going to make judgements and demands, etc. on us. I really hope that home can be better than that. I want to know that I'm accepted and loved as the apple of somebody's eye if I'm 120 lbs. or 180 lbs. For me personally...I just NEED for hair, makeup, weight, whatever not to matter so much that my sweetie would actually request I maintain some particular standard simply for his pleasure. I want his pleasure to be me...whatever me is there.

Maybe that's selfish and maybe I'm asking for more than any man could possibly give. No, I don't think I am because I've seen it happen.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:23:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orientalgal

I just read a few of the posts and to answer to the OP, I was a little puzzled. Firstly, aren't men attracted to a woman coz of the appearance first? If so, why would the woman need to change herself ie your equivalent of how hard she would work at to be what her spouse wanted,


Let me clarify. When a man marries a women she normally looks just like he'd want her to look. The question is, how hard would she work to stay looking that way.

When a woman marries (if I understand the other thread correctly) many times he doesn't look exactly like she'd want so she does some redecorating. The question is how hard would he work to look like she wants him to look.


quote:


Bottomline, if unforeseen circumstances happen, I think one ought to continue to love his/her spouse and embrace the situation together and work at it. It is NOT whether I do things to please him, but it is both of us working together to please each other. Umm...your OP made it sound like a chore, but if love exist, why would it be a chore? Meeting your spouse's expectations would come naturally/sub-consciously.


Once married, married till death. Whether your spouse lives up to your expectations doesn't change that. What I was trying to figure out is:

Is it true that men marry ready to move in and women marry fixer-uppers. and how hard we'd all work to be that for our spouses.

Unfortunately I seem to have stirred up some indignation that the woman was even asked to remain as she was on the wedding day. and haven't yet really gotten an answer. (Been a great discussion though)



InquiringMindSJ -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:31:07 PM)

quote:

Let me clarify. When a man marries a women she normally looks just like he'd want her to look. The question is, how hard would she work to stay looking that way.


For me, personally, I'm always trying to improve myself. I am trying to eat a balanced diet and I work out regularly. I like how I feel and look when I'm living a healthy lifestyle.

I would do this if I was married or not. Would I work hard to please my husband? You had better believe it. But, I would rather my husband want me to "stay the same" for health reasons then just because he is suddenly not attracted to me anymore because my hair is shorter. Whether or not I wear makeup or keep my hair a certain way or wear a certian type of clothes does not have an effect on my health. If someone wanted me to be in tip top, camera ready beautiful status 24/7, I don't think I would marry that person in the first place.



Psalms274 -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:33:26 PM)

quote:

Is it true that men marry ready to move in and women marry fixer-uppers.


It may be a catchy phrase, but I do not believe it's true. I am not about to assume that someone is going to change ... what you see is what you get. There are so many problems created by thinking you are going to change another person.

As to how hard I would work to stay the same ... I think it's a silly question. I will work just as hard as I do now ... no more, no less. The idea that a woman will stop taking care of herself once she "catches a man" is equally silly. There may be women that do that, but they are few and far between.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:36:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
Oh yeah, being southern matters too. We like to eat down here!!!!!!!!! Our men, our women…we all eat so the weight expectations just aren’t quite the same. Just different mindsets and perspectives altogether. And I suppose that's okay just so long as the person you marry knows and accepts yours and is willingly to go along with that.


Same thing goes in Southern Indiana. When I first got down here the first thing I noticed was the number of restaurants. All these people do is eat


Lynn, thank you so much for posting on this thread. Great answers and great points all around. Thanks for the education



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:43:30 PM)

Ok John_O I am not sure if this will answer your question but I will give it a try. [;)]

From my experience, men ARE ready to marry and move in and women do tend marry fixer uppers. I cannot speak for everyone of course but I am just sharing my point of view. I feel that as a woman I am built to be helpmate and perhaps see it not so much as loving their men conditionally but to help them be or look their best. There are some women who are so fixated in trying to change their men that it becomes a real issue of respect. I found that a man would want to change for their women only because they have been respected as men. When you respect men, love them and encourage them, they will be more than happy to change. And that change is a positive change, that would impact the well-being of the love relationship.

John (dawgfan) doesn't care how I look yet I value his opinions. If I like my hair a certain length he will tell me to go with that. Yet, there are times when I want his opinion. I do want to please him and it is because of his selflessness that I want to please him. It's because of his unconditional love that I wanna make him happy (even though he is already happy with anything I choose).



Psalms274 -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 3:52:36 PM)

quote:

I do want to please him and it is because of his selflessness that I want to please him.


I think Above All hit something on the noggen with this comment. The OP question (to me) comes across as selfish ... hence the rebellious responces. [;)] When a man says, "I like it best this way ... please keep it this way for me" ... well, I am just not interested. But if he selflessly looks out for me ... my reaction is to be very receptive to whatever he wants.



doinkdom -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 4:00:38 PM)

All of the things mentioned as expectations in this thread (men and women) only serve to reveal the real intention of our hearts towards our spouses.

And I would be mortified if my husband ever thought I placed such a high value within our marriage on anything other than our committment and love for one another. Even if the physical aspect of our marriage is in the extreme realm of importance, my expectations in that area only reveal my personal lust and sin because it is about what I want and not about the grace and mercy of God when he gifted me a husband in my life. Why am I not content with what God gave me?

When my personal expectations/demands start to rival what God expects in my marriage, then I have turned those requests, etc. into an idol. My focus is on my personal wants, desires and expectations to where I cannot appreciate anything else or even see an area in my marriage that God has provided for my continued sanctification.

Only the truly foolish would think that age and lifestyle do not affect our bodies, regardless of the amount of pressure in exercise, etc. that you put yourself through. Wrinkles happen, hair gets stringy as it gets longer, men's ears grow and all sorts of other interesting weirdness affects us.

And none of it should affect our marriage in any way.



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 4:02:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Psalms274

quote:

I do want to please him and it is because of his selflessness that I want to please him.


I think Above All hit something on the noggen with this comment. The OP question (to me) comes across as selfish ... hence the rebellious responces. [;)] When a man says, "I like it best this way ... please keep it this way for me" ... well, I am just not interested. But if he selflessly looks out for me ... my reaction is to be very receptive to whatever he wants.


You mean I answered the question correctly then? Wow! [:D]

What I find that once there is much respect between the couple, once they become one in heart, once they both know how much the other loves them, asking for things will not be so much of a problem. If both have excellent communication too you will find that changing for the other person is no problem at all. Both parties will understand how important it is to please their spouse. Not because that is what they need to do in order to be loved but just to simply please them.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 4:02:49 PM)

OK ladies, (and gentlemen) I've got one "yes it's true" and one "No it's not true" What do you think?

1. Do you think that men marry ready to move in. (That is, she's the way he wants her to be)

2. Do you think women marry fixer-uppers (that is, he's close but she'll still redecorate)



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