RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/22/2007 11:04:45 PM
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QueenM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I was looking through some older threads and came across
Who is more unrealistic: Men or Women? post 45 where the question was asked, What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.
So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?
Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?
Saw that this question was asked in the Marriage folder, so thought I'd mosey on over and give my two cents. (I've read most of the responses here)
I think everything boils down to communication and compromise. I don't think it's unreasonable for a man or woman to want their spouse to be healthy and fit, but that's about good stewardship as well. I tend to measure things on a scale of importance. If I know that something is a 10 to him and a 5 to me...............he wins(so to speak). The problem comes when we are both pretty high on the scale with an issue.
There are certain things, physical or material though they may be, that really do visually say who I am and directly affect how I feel about myself. Hair is one of them. Length is one thing, style and color are another. When I'm in a rut doing something to my hair is the quickest, most dramatic change I can make. I've never done anything drastic without first discussing it with my husband, and he hasn't always agreed............but always made suggestions that fulfilled my need to change up while at the same time not making him feel that his opinion didn't matter. Style of dress was another issue with us. What he'd prefer me to wear, just wouldn't be practical when you're in and out with toddlers all day. My dh loves heels, and I don't mind them when we're together and he can do the chasing, otherwise, mommy needs to ready for anything. (And nope, I wasn't a heel wearer when he met me;) )
Now on the flip side, I'm not to keen on my dh's style of dress sometimes either...............too young. When we dated he wore slacks or jeans and a polo or casual shirt. ....and that was 10 years ago. And I let it be known to him early on that I prefered him with a mustache. Primarily because to me he's simply more attractive and distinguished ;) with one. So I will admit, when he just on a whim decides to shave it off................I'm not happy.(So, nope, I didn't really try to change him....liked him the way I got him)
I personally believe that once you are married your spouses happiness is added to by the loving service you provide, more so than anything physical. Being healthy and staying healthy is a service to your spouse. Sometimes with couples one just truly does not realize how important something may be to their spouse..........I refer back to communication. Do I want my husband to always find me attractive? Yes! Am I willing to stretch out of my comfort zone to be attractive to him? Yes, and the more compliments on something I get the easier it is to know that I'm on the right track.
As we've had children, it has become more of an effort just to do the small things like polish my nails.............which he loves, but the kids love colors to and gravitate to wet nails.  Put on a pretty dress? They find something dirty or sticky especially for you. Doing a workout at home? Always takes longer than it's supposed to. ;) So the time it takes to take care of myself has changed greatly since "I do".
< Message edited by QueenM -- 12/22/2007 11:10:49 PM >
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 12:49:09 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
We need to love that person and respect them enough to be willing to do whatever it takes to make them happy.
This begins with a false premise and perpetuates a burden that isn't ours to carry. We cannot be responsible for our spouse's happiness. ...... It's never ending until we take responsibility for our own happiness.
While this is correct as far as it goes it leaves out part of the equation. No we are not repsonsible for our spouse's happines, but does that knowledge remove from us any duty to try to please our spouses? I don't think so. If both partners take the attitude "I'm not responsible for your happiness and I don't give a flying leap what you want, I'm going to do it my way" Then that marriage will be an experience just this side of hell.
Both partners should be working (Expending effort, trying etc) to please their spouse.
quote:
Would you want to be married to someone who could lose his/her attraction for you?
Since we are talking physical attraction, the odds are that if you are married to a man he could lose his physical attraction to you. It happens far too often. Now this shouldn't affect his love for you as the two are not necessarily connected but the physical (visual) attraction may change over time.
quote:
Is it reasonable to ask your spouse to continue to look the same from the day you marry onwards?
Within reason why not? If they were that way on the wedding day then what irriesistable force causes them to change greatly? None.
quote:
Is there an underlying and implied "if you love me, you'll _____________" in the concept? (Because if you won't work to be what your spouse prefers...).
No. It has nothing to do with them loving you. It has everything to do with you loving them.
quote:
If your spouse shaves his beard, is he showing disdain for your preferences or did he just shave his beard?
If you've told him repeatedly how much you love his beard then it's probably the first. If he doesn't know you like him in a beard it could be the second.
quote:
It has been stated several times that if someone does not keep the same appearance after marriage that they were engaged in false advertising and were lying. Is that a fair statement?
If they are not normally like they were before the wedding. For instance. If a person diets and works out prior to the wedding to maintain a shape to 'catch a spouse' then slacks off once they caught one, then it is false advertising. If you have no intention of being the person you are when you get married then don't be that person before you get married. Exactly analogous to someone who attends bible studies etc prior to the marriage and then drops out of church after the wedding.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 12:51:14 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
quote:
We need to love that person and respect them enough to be willing to do whatever it takes to make them happy.
As a couple of us have posted, we have done this. We have done everything in our power to do whatever it takes to make our spouse happy. Know what? It doesn't work. Because in the process of doing *whatever it takes to make them happy* we have lost sight of ourselves. It becomes very one-sided. It's not healthy.
It's not healthy if it's unreasonable and unrecipricated. If both partners are working at keeping the other happy it can be heavenly.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 12:53:01 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
We are not talking about changing ourselves but MAINTAINING ourselves.
But be clear. Maintaining ourselves for someone. Because that's what they want. Regardless of what we might prefer for ourselves, e.g. a new hair-style/color/length, shaving/growing a beard, etc.
NO. NO. NO. NO. NO! Maintaining yourself for them because YOU want them to be happy. If you didn't prefer to be the way you were on your wedding day why were you that way?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 12:57:52 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BugLady
quote:
....... personally, I desire to have a husband that wants what's best for me, and in doing so, he will seek my input, push me when I need it (come on, honey, you can do it .... just picture that finish line!), and encourage us to pray together as a couple, always seeking God's will.
Yep. Working together as a team. A dual effort not one-sided.
Exactly. Just like the premise of the thread has always been (Marriage is always teamwork. Can't be done any other way)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 1:01:41 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
likewise, i would never ask him to do something that pleases me, if it is something that he wouldn't want to do....even if it is something that he used to do but no longer does, if it isn't something he wants to do, then i will not be pleased if he does it just to please me.
...
so, in order to answer the op..how hard would you work to be what your spouse wants you to be,,,,well, i don't have to work very hard at all, because I AM what he wants me to be,,,,happy. all he wants is my happiness. there isn't a demand that i look a certain way, or act a certain way. all he's ever wanted is my happiness. I don't have to work to hard to be happy..i just have to be near him and he makes it so.
So if he knows something would make you happy (say he wear a pink shirt or something else trivial like that) and he sacrificially does it to make you happy, you would no longer be happy with it? How can he please his wife if pleasing his wife automatically makes her unhappy with him?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 1:02:48 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: derek_from_canada
For me, my happiness is in her happiness and I believe her's is in mine. Thus we submit to each other's needs in that way.
It's not a 50/50 split of effort, it's an unbalanced 110/110. Both parties give 110% sacrificially and unconditionally to the other and hope they respond in kind. Wonderfully, yet perhaps imperfectly, they usually do. Quite a mystery this relationship stuff.
Exactly! YOu do for her not because she demands that you do but because you want to.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/23/2007 1:08:59 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: QueenM
I think everything boils down to communication and compromise. ......
Great post QueenM.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/31/2007 2:31:23 PM
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Lite4God
Posts: 157
Joined: 12/9/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I was looking through some older threads and came across
Who is more unrealistic: Men or Women? post 45 where the question was asked, What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.
So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?
Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?
I think it depends on what the spouse expects, whether it is attainable.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/2/2008 3:50:09 PM
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elastic
Posts: 2456
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: NYC
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quote:
So if he knows something would make you happy (say he wear a pink shirt or something else trivial like that) and he sacrificially does it to make you happy, you would no longer be happy with it? How can he please his wife if pleasing his wife automatically makes her unhappy with him?
doing something on his own, that he thinks i might like (such as wearing a pink shirt) to make me happy is a whole lot different than ME placing demands on him and saying "you have to wear a pink shirt because I expect you to do that in order for me to maintain my attraction to you and in order for you to make me happy".
i do things for my spouse that please him, such as wearing lingerie, or letting my hair grow out because he likes long hair...but if he demanded it or expected it of me, (well first of all i wouldn't have married such a shallow man, so the point would be moot), he'd be waiting a very long time for those things to happen.....like say waiting for a certain place the devil occupies to freeze over as it were.
i'm not saying we can't do things that please our spouses and make them happy...by all means, do that, but when it comes to doing something that is demanded, or expected, or when you are given the choice to either please your spouse by doing specific things to change and contort yourself , or live up to impossible standards, then well, i'd just feel sorry for you...sorry that you were stuck in such an unloving marriage with a person who places conditions on loving you. I couldn't live that way...maybe you could, but it's not for me. Luckily, I don't have to live that way.
_____________________________
Whoever said "Nothing is Impossible" never tried slamming a revolving door.
 I Stand with Israel!
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/2/2008 11:11:08 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elastic
doing something on his own, that he thinks i might like (such as wearing a pink shirt) to make me happy is a whole lot different than ME placing demands on him and saying "you have to wear a pink shirt because I expect you to do that in order for me to maintain my attraction to you and in order for you to make me happy".
Which brings us right back to the OP. Most men marry move-in-able. Most women marry fixer-uppers. If you know your mate wants you to be someway (for a lady that would normally be just like you were on your wedding day) how hard would you work to be that.
Note that this doesn't say he is demanding it. It is admitting the fact that he thought you were totally beautiful on your wedding day (which is part (even if a just a very small part) of why he married you).
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 10:20:37 AM
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stellaluna
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I've decided to answer your question: "I wouldn't."
And I'm basing that answer on the fact that I don't think most men marry a woman with the idea that she will never change, i.e. look different. Over the past few weeks, I have been asking the question posed in the OP to every man I come across. That has added up to about 30 different guys. Not a single one has agreed that expecting a wife not to change is a good idea, or what men want, or personally desirable. I've been met by a number of blank stares, a lot of "That's silly," and this from a friend who has been married for 6 or 7 years: "I want my wife to feel good about herself and I trust her to know what looks good on her and what makes her feel good. Even if there was a particular hairstyle I liked, how would I know that I didn't like another one better if I expected her to never change it?"
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Taking the longer view....... - 1/3/2008 12:58:23 PM
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Elena1030
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I cannot answer for other women. And I will marry only one man, so although these ponderings on sociological phenomena are interesting, in the long run only one man’s character, personality, beliefs, values, and being/essence will matter to me in the context of a marriage. I cannot predict how I would behave in any one situation in marriage, be it about changing my hairstyle, purchasing a new major appliance, or dealing with a family crisis.
I can tell you this:
I want to be a woman whose heart is postured to love and serve the Lord and thus to love and serve others, my husband being the primary focus of my earthly ministry of caretaking, nurturing, serving, encouraging, etc. (At least, I hope that I would be such a person overall. And with God, all things are possible. So being such a woman is possible for me! But without Him, without being submitted to Him and letting Him live through me, any number of good or ok things can be twisted into ugliness and even evil because of selfishness.)
If I make my spouse's pleasure the highest goal (or even a really high goal), then my thoughts, attitudes, beliefs, words, and actions are predicated on his pleasure----the essence of those things is changeable because a human's pleasure is given to whim, not to true good.
But... if I make God's pleasure my highest goal---and since God never changes, what pleases Him doesn't change much either (at least, not in essence)---and my husband's soul my primary object of earthly caretaking, then I will often do what pleases my husband... but there may be times that what I do and say does not please him in the temporary but yet is good for him in the eternal.
I think our view needs to be far more long-term------>eternal.
For both men and women, it is better to ask oneself:
How willing am I to do what it takes to cultivate my spouse's highest good? How do I see myself contributing to the marriage's being a section of fertile soil in God's vast forest in which my spouse will continue to grow as a tree planted next to living water?
(See Psalm 1.)
In order that servant-heartedness flourishes in marriage, both the husband and the wife must let the other off the hook of expectations.... in other words, I can have expectations for myself: that I will fight my flesh and lay down my preferences, as much as I am able in the Lord, to first do my husband good and then to please him.... but I must NOT expect him to do the same. Of course, I would like it to be so. I would pray that it would be so… not primarily for my benefit and comfort but for the health of his soul…that he continue to grow to Christlike and bear much fruit unto Him. But my treatment of him must NOT be predicated upon his of me. My responsibility is first to my Lord.
A healthy Christian marriage is one in which BOTH partners have that same attitude and approach to this whole issue. But one spouse cannot make the other do so. Each spouse can only control his/her own attitudes and thoughts, making them submit to Christ.
Any situation in marriage---be a small decision or a large one---depends upon the stance of the heart----is one postured in one's heart to serve the other? to love the other?
If such is the spirit of the entire situation, then the outcome (she cuts her hair, doesn’t cut her hair; he wears a pink shirt, doesn’t wear a pink shirt) matters far less than do the thoughts and communication of both the husband and the wife... both within each of them, with God, and with each other.
To work back from an issue of hair or weight or any other transitory, earthly thing is to miss the point entirely.
So.....
John, if your aim was to poke and prod us
(as Plato [or was it Aristotle's?] proverbial gadfly to the horse {ie. society})
into thinking and reflecting more deeply about our heart attitudes, then I believe you have succeeded, whether posts have evidenced to this fact or not.
< Message edited by Elena1030 -- 1/3/2008 1:07:26 PM >
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Taking the longer view....... - 1/3/2008 1:04:21 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
In order that servant-heartedness flourishes in marriage, both the husband and the wife must let the other off the hook of expectations.... in other words, I can have expectations for myself: that I will fight my flesh and lay down my preferences, as much as I am able in the Lord, to first do my husband good and then to please him.... but I must NOT expect him to do the same. Of course, I would like it to be so. I would pray that it would be so… not primarily for my benefit and comfort but for the health of his soul…that he continue to grow to Christlike and bear much fruit unto Him. But my treatment of him must NOT be predicated upon his of me. My responsibility is first to my Lord.
A healthy Christian marriage is one in which BOTH partners have that same attitude and approach to this whole issue. But one spouse cannot make the other do so. Each spouse can only control his/her own attitudes and thoughts, making them submit to Christ.
Excellent post as always Elena!
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 1:05:35 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I've decided to answer your question: "I wouldn't."
And I'm basing that answer on the fact that I don't think most men marry a woman with the idea that she will never change, i.e. look different. Over the past few weeks, I have been asking the question posed in the OP to every man I come across. That has added up to about 30 different guys. Not a single one has agreed that expecting a wife not to change is a good idea, or what men want, or personally desirable. I've been met by a number of blank stares, a lot of "That's silly," and this from a friend who has been married for 6 or 7 years: "I want my wife to feel good about herself and I trust her to know what looks good on her and what makes her feel good. Even if there was a particular hairstyle I liked, how would I know that I didn't like another one better if I expected her to never change it?"
No one ever said that he would expect her to never change. The question was how hard would you work to be what he wanted you to be.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 1:19:51 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I've decided to answer your question: "I wouldn't."
And I'm basing that answer on the fact that I don't think most men marry a woman with the idea that she will never change, i.e. look different. Over the past few weeks, I have been asking the question posed in the OP to every man I come across. That has added up to about 30 different guys. Not a single one has agreed that expecting a wife not to change is a good idea, or what men want, or personally desirable. I've been met by a number of blank stares, a lot of "That's silly," and this from a friend who has been married for 6 or 7 years: "I want my wife to feel good about herself and I trust her to know what looks good on her and what makes her feel good. Even if there was a particular hairstyle I liked, how would I know that I didn't like another one better if I expected her to never change it?"
No one ever said that he would expect her to never change. The question was how hard would you work to be what he wanted you to be.
Again, I say...
that's not even the RIGHT question!!!
1. What if his ideal/image/thought of me (that is, who I am is attached to this idea of what I look like...and that being a static image) is slightly askew?
2. Is having such a hard-and-fast expectation of another human being
a healthy thing?
3. A person's essence (his/her being) is FAR more than the sum of the inner parts (personality, character, values, beliefs, opinions, etc.) and the outer appearance/physicality.
Since we are made in His image, I think we can trust that this is true:
The essence of a person really is.... ineffable. Beyond mere words.
Being able to grasp 10% of the true essence of any other human being (let alone oneself)
is amazing... it's a gift.
Oh, then to be able to put that amount that one has grasped
into words, song, pictures, movement... whatever form of expression you choose....
wow!
4. One really ought to be humbled at the thought of being so privileged to be entrusted by the Lord to be the caretaker of one of His creations, one of His children.
Can we not see that relationships are gifts?!?
This move-in-able, fixer-uppable stuff really is just..... so even NOT touching the reality of the amazingness that is our God and His creation: His children.
Let's stop playing in the puddle that is this woefully inadequate metaphor and move on to the vast ocean of images that have more depth of meaning.
PLEASE!!!!
(Can you tell I've been reading a lot of C. S. Lewis lately? =D )
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 1:46:04 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4266
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I've decided to answer your question: "I wouldn't."
And I'm basing that answer on the fact that I don't think most men marry a woman with the idea that she will never change, i.e. look different. Over the past few weeks, I have been asking the question posed in the OP to every man I come across. That has added up to about 30 different guys. Not a single one has agreed that expecting a wife not to change is a good idea, or what men want, or personally desirable. I've been met by a number of blank stares, a lot of "That's silly," and this from a friend who has been married for 6 or 7 years: "I want my wife to feel good about herself and I trust her to know what looks good on her and what makes her feel good. Even if there was a particular hairstyle I liked, how would I know that I didn't like another one better if I expected her to never change it?"
No one ever said that he would expect her to never change. The question was how hard would you work to be what he wanted you to be.
You most certainly did. And you also basically said women who do look different (for any reason barring something medical) are deceitful and have sold their husbands a bill of goods.
I agree with Elena's last post.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 1:47:52 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1282
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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I guess if you go into a marriage with certain expectations, you ought to at least make it well known to your partner that you have certain conditions and expectations that need to be met. Perhaps something like a weight or hair pre-nuptial agreement would be called for. A weight gain, or unauthorized hairstyle change could then clearly be seen as a breach of contract, thus reducing the chances of a man ending up married to a bon-bon munching, short-haired harpy, or a woman ending up married to a beer-gutted, hygienically-challenged autocrat. After all, when you're entering Holy Matrimony, if you don't look out for yourself, who will?
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Molon Labe
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 3:59:17 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
No one ever said that he would expect her to never change. The question was how hard would you work to be what he wanted you to be.
You most certainly did.
If you will re-read my posts you will find that I never said that. Others have said that I said that however.
I have just completed reading EVERY LAST ONE OF MY POSTS ON THIS THREAD (all 25 pages worth) and I never said that a man expects his wife to never change. I always included the disclaimer "Within reason". The closest I came to saying that was in post 418 where I was talking about hair. However even there it is just after 2 very long posts where I stated that we know our wives will change.
quote:
And you also basically said women who do look different (for any reason barring something medical) are deceitful and have sold their husbands a bill of goods.
I said that if they got themselves into a shape just to catch a man, or even for the wedding, which they did not intend to maintain that they have been deceitful. I did not say that if they happened to change (through aging or medical reasons etc, or even just within reason) they were deceitful. There is a difference.
If the woman (or man) had to change to catch a man and then once the man was caught she relaxed back into their normal life patterns then she has lied to her spouse as she is not who she represented herself to be. (same thing if a guy changes to catch a woman)
< Message edited by John_O -- 1/3/2008 4:17:08 PM >
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 4:08:26 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
The question was how hard would you work to be what he wanted you to be.
Again, I say...
that's not even the RIGHT question!!!
1. What if his ideal/image/thought of me (that is, who I am is attached to this idea of what I look like...and that being a static image) is slightly askew?
Remember the premise of the thread. Were you slightly askew on your wedding day? If not then how could his ideal of you be askew? You were already his ideal.
quote:
2. Is having such a hard-and-fast expectation of another human being
a healthy thing?
No one has placed any expectations on anyone else in this thread. (at least not in my posts). It's never been about them expecting it of us. It's always been about us doing it for them.
quote:
3. A person's essence (his/her being) is FAR more than the sum of the inner parts (personality, character, values, beliefs, opinions, etc.) and the outer appearance/physicality.
Since we are made in His image, I think we can trust that this is true:
The essence of a person really is.... ineffable. Beyond mere words.
Being able to grasp 10% of the true essence of any other human being (let alone oneself)
is amazing... it's a gift.
True. But how does that make it somehow wrong for us to try to be what our spouse wants us to be?
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4. One really ought to be humbled at the thought of being so privileged to be entrusted by the Lord to be the caretaker of one of His creations, one of His children.
Can we not see that relationships are gifts?!?
Exactly true. And how do we maintain that relationship? Or do we eevn have to?
quote:
This move-in-able, fixer-uppable stuff really is just..... so even NOT touching the reality of the amazingness that is our God and His creation: His children.
Also true. Makes for a good discussion though. Especially since we cannot grasp that amazingness.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 4:17:33 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4266
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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Here are some things you've said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
A man normally finds the woman he wants to marry and expects her to stay (within some reason) that way. If she has long hair, he normally likes her to keep her hair long, if she's slim, he likes her to stay slim. etc.
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ORIGINAL: John_O
This is the only instance where I would agree to my wife cutting her hair short, as long as she grew it back long again. (assuming she was long when we married)
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I always figured that I'm the one who looks at it so why wouldn't she wear it how I like (within reason of course). Why is that unreasonable? IS it really that important to a woman to change her hairstyle?
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
But isn't it reasonable that if he marries you as thin he'd want you to remain that way (within reason)? If not, why not?
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
We marry a thin women with long hair and end up with a not so thin woman with short hair (or vice versa). It seems like we've been sold a bill of goods. Now this doesn't say that we don't continue loving our wives. Physical attractiveness at that point normally has nothing to do with the decision to love her. (although it does affect our sex lives).
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
If I like long hair on my wife, because it is visually and tactilely appealing to me, and she had long hair when we married, why wouldn't she keep it that way?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 4:33:21 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Here are some things you've said:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
A man normally finds the woman he wants to marry and expects her to stay (within some reason) that way. If she has long hair, he normally likes her to keep her hair long, if she's slim, he likes her to stay slim. etc.
read the bold
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
This is the only instance where I would agree to my wife cutting her hair short, as long as she grew it back long again. (assuming she was long when we married)
Does it say that I expect she won't change? NO. (It just says that I'd agree to it in this case. It probably would change in other cases. Not much I can do about that. Read the rest of my posts as I discuss this at length in this thread)
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I always figured that I'm the one who looks at it so why wouldn't she wear it how I like (within reason of course). Why is that unreasonable? IS it really that important to a woman to change her hairstyle?
Does it say that I expect she won't change? NO.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
But isn't it reasonable that if he marries you as thin he'd want you to remain that way (within reason)? If not, why not?
Does it say that I expect she won't change? NO.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
We marry a thin women with long hair and end up with a not so thin woman with short hair (or vice versa). It seems like we've been sold a bill of goods. Now this doesn't say that we don't continue loving our wives. Physical attractiveness at that point normally has nothing to do with the decision to love her. (although it does affect our sex lives).
Does it say that I expect she won't change? NO.
quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
If I like long hair on my wife, because it is visually and tactilely appealing to me, and she had long hair when we married, why wouldn't she keep it that way?
Does it say that I expect she won't change? NO.
Again. No one ever said that he would expect her to never change. please read my posts again. I very carefully always (with the one possible exception of 418) added within reason or mentioned in the rest of the post that we know our wives will change.
Please don't put words in my mouth that I did not say. If you have doubts about what I mean, then ask me to clarify.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 1/3/2008 5:06:19 PM
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shemaromans
Posts: 3830
Joined: 3/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I was looking through some older threads and came across
Who is more unrealistic: Men or Women? post 45 where the question was asked, What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.
So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?
Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?
I read this entire (rather redundant) thread a while ago. What keeps entering my mind is the following:
We know that someone's attracted to us if they decide to marry us. Why wouldn't we want to try to maintain ourselves physically in an effort to please our spouses post-wedding? It seems like a no-brainer.
If we were true to ourselves and our special someones prior to marriage, it doesn't seem like a non-Biblical loss of self (secular thinking, by the way) to want to continue to please our spouses after the exchange of vows.
Granted, the day will come when physically we won't appear the same. Grey hair. Wrinkles. Age-induced spreading and sagging. And such. By that point, we've hopefully developed the emotional and intellectual aspects of our relationships sufficiently, which will ultimately add to our mutual attraction.
In the meantime, I just can't understand why someone would think that it's wrong to want to look good for our spouses in the manner that we know they appreciate. Why wouldn't we want to continue to attract them? And if we know what they prefer--and we were like that prior to initially meeting them--why suddenly develop an independence (or even worse, become stubbornly obstinate)?
(Of course, if we decide to try something different, we have every right to do so. However, wouldn't it make sense to take your husband's preferences into consideration? Talk about it first? Be prepared for open and honest feedback that we might not enjoy hearing?)
In the end, though, is it really that much of a sacrifice to try to please your spouse physically? I've never been married, but I imagine that it would be an honor to make my husband happy in this way.
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"But as for me, it is good to be near God." Psalm 73:28
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