RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (Full Version)

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John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:28:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: momfree

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

It's the old "marry em young and train em up the way you want em" school of thought. on the surface it has some allure but I don't think I can waste the years required. I'm more of a ready to move in sort of person myself [:D]



See, that ^ is what I'm talking about. What about that (training your spouse as if she were a dog) has a sense of allure to you? Saying I don't think I can waste the years required is baffling to me also.


Now that I've corrected the joking thing (see my earlier post) I'll address the question on wasting the years. In order to 'marry em young and train them up' you'd have to get someone in their early twenties. (No offense intended to our youngsters here) Most of these folk are still children. By the time they've matured to be a fit spouse for me 10 to 15 years would have gone by. I'm still young but old enough to realize that wasting 15 years waiting for someone to grow up is not a wise use of my time.


quote:

Edited: I'm not trying to pick on you John but you raised some thoughts that were very unsettling to say the least. And as you well soon get to know me, I do like to challenge these things. [;)]


Pick away momfree! If I didn't feel like a walk through the furnace I wouldn't have posted the topic. I've been in many worse situations before (on other sites where the 'sisterhood' showed up and raked me over the coals just for asking a question and all the other men wimped out and left me to fend for myself. Took almost 200 posts to get them calmed down enough to listen to what I was saying. We ended the thread with a much better understanding of where each was coming from, and on good terms with each other) I've found that these controversial topics are really the best way to figure out how the other side thinks. There are some things about women that I will never understand. Some of these are things that I can know, so I can account for them, without really understanding them. Threads such as this give us insight into finding these unknowable areas.

That said, we've strayed far from the original question. How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:29:46 PM)

quote:

But shouldn't your husband be the judge of how good you look?


Are you serious here or are you just kidding? Something about that just sounds really bad.


quote:

I've found that these controversial topics are really the best way to figure out how the other side thinks.


I think they are a good way to find out how other specific people think. I don't think it would be fair to extrapolate your thoughts and ideas out to the whole male gender. Or any individual lady's out to the whole female gender.

Now, I'll admit that a few posters make me WISH that all men thought like them...but that's just wishful thinking.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:33:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
If and when I choose to marry someone, this will be part of the essence of our commitment TO EACH OTHER:

"I love you. I love who you are. I love the way you live your life in this world -- through your mind, body, and spirit. I commit myself to loving both who you are now AND who you will become. Because of my deep respect for you and myself, I will love, encourage, challenge, and trust you. I will not seek to either force or prohibit change in your life, nor will I try to control you. I will strive to bring you joy and honor through every aspect of my life. Together we will seek to glorify God through every word, attitude, and action."


Beautiful, your spunkiness, absolutely beautiful



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:36:44 PM)

Excellent post SF!


quote:

ORIGINAL: semperfidelis

What would you do to further be what your spouse wants you to be? Are you so disrespectful and unloving that you would not try to please them at all and have a hopeless attitude or try to guilt them? Or would you be equally unhealthy and either bend over backwards or require your spouse to bend over backwards?


Please note the last sentence of this paragraph.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon

quote:

But shouldn't your husband be the judge of how good you look?


Are you serious here or are you just kidding? Something about that just sounds really bad.


I'm stone cold serious. Who are you married to. Which one man are you pledged to spend the entire rest of your life with? Who is given biblical ownership of your body and has given biblical ownership of his body to you? Who has pledged to die for you if that is what is required?

So, who's opinion should matter most, the mailman's? Your beauticians? your girlfriends? or your husbands? No other man has a right to even be looking at you the way your husband does. Hopefully their opinions won't matter to you (and if they do there's possibly some problems there). Did your girlfriends swear to be with you till death do you part? So why would their opinion be worth more to you than your husband's?

See what I mean? Michele's opinion of my looks was the only one that mattered to me. No one else had the right to judge and she was the only one I needed to please.



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 10:50:39 PM)

Okay, I severly misunderstood. You are speaking in terms of spouse vs. friends. I was thinking in terms of my own eyes vs. my spouses eyes. You are saying that your husband's opinion should matter more than other people's opinons. With that I agree.

When I read it, it sounded like I should rely on my husband to let me know how good I look or to let me know when I look good vs. when I don't. I was thinking...if I can see, can't I rely on my eyesight just as well. My husband can tell me what looks best to him and that's great...but I don't think an outside party can tell me what looks good to me.

The comment just reminded me of an episode of King of the Hill. The little short old granddad told his grandson that you've got to tell the woman she looks good because otherwise she doesn't know...as if she lacks vision or opinion forming capabilities.



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:02:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
My husband can tell me what looks best to him and that's great...but I don't think an outside party can tell me what looks good to me.


Which brings us to another point. Is it better to look good to him or to look good to you?

As long as I was comfortable with it, I wanted to look good to Michele, after all she was the one who had to look at me, and the one I wanted to please. That's why I did the perm (Is that story on this thread?) She even had me wear a pink shirt once (gag. I was only able to do it once, I was far too 'icky' in it even though she said I looked great). I tried to dress how she liked and even wore cologne that she liked.



spunky-gal -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:02:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
If and when I choose to marry someone, this will be part of the essence of our commitment TO EACH OTHER:

"I love you. I love who you are. I love the way you live your life in this world -- through your mind, body, and spirit. I commit myself to loving both who you are now AND who you will become. Because of my deep respect for you and myself, I will love, encourage, challenge, and trust you. I will not seek to either force or prohibit change in your life, nor will I try to control you. I will strive to bring you joy and honor through every aspect of my life. Together we will seek to glorify God through every word, attitude, and action."


Beautiful, your spunkiness, absolutely beautiful


I didn't just write that to be beautiful, John_O. I wrote it to express my opinion about the topic of this thread... and I feel like you ignored it. [sm=aside.gif] Oh well.

So anyhow, back to your question:

quote:

"How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?"


This question almost (but not necessarily) implies that what my spouse would want me to be is something very different from what I want to be. You make it sound as though it would take huge amounts of effort on my part to measure up to my spouse's standard for me.

My spouse will want me to be ME. It doesn't seem like it should take huge amounts of effort to do something that already comes naturally to me... being myself. [;)] Will there be things I will want to (and should) change about my life as time goes on? Absolutely! But if my husband wants me to be something that I don't want to be, I won't be putting much effort into it until the desire to change is present within me.



spunky-gal -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:04:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

She even had me wear a pink shirt once (gag. I was only able to do it once, I was far too 'icky' in it even though she said I looked great). I tried to dress how she liked and even wore cologne that she liked.


So if you're "allowed" to not wear pink shirts, shouldn't women be "allowed" to not have long hair if long hair makes them feel "icky"????



NiceGuy -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:06:42 PM)

***Turn out the lights and I'll glow ***
quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal

I didn't just write that to be beautiful, John_O. I wrote it to express my opinion about the topic of this thread... and I feel like you ignored it. [sm=aside.gif] Oh well.

Aren't we a bottle of sunshine tonight? [sm=icon_smile_roll.gif]

NiceGuy [sm=icon_smile_santa.gif]



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:10:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
If and when I choose to marry someone, this will be part of the essence of our commitment TO EACH OTHER:

"I love you. I love who you are. I love the way you live your life in this world -- through your mind, body, and spirit. I commit myself to loving both who you are now AND who you will become. Because of my deep respect for you and myself, I will love, encourage, challenge, and trust you. I will not seek to either force or prohibit change in your life, nor will I try to control you. I will strive to bring you joy and honor through every aspect of my life. Together we will seek to glorify God through every word, attitude, and action."


Beautiful, your spunkiness, absolutely beautiful


I didn't just write that to be beautiful, John_O. I wrote it to express my opinion about the topic of this thread... and I feel like you ignored it. [sm=aside.gif] Oh well.


It's beautiful because it is true. Not because of pretty words. I bolded the line that spoke to me of self-sacrifice. Imagine the joy if each person is doing that in the marriage. You would not need to force or prohibit anything because they would be willing, eager even, to do what makes you joyful.

quote:


quote:

"How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?"


This question almost (but not necessarily) implies that what my spouse would want me to be is something very different from what I want to be. You make it sound as though it would take huge amounts of effort on my part to measure up to my spouse's standard for me.

My spouse will want me to be ME.


I'm amazed at how many different readings of this question there are. Of course your husband wants you to be you, that's who he married.

Maybe I can come up with a better phrasing of it? maybe "How hard would you work to please your spouse?" I'm tired. Tomorrow is first date night and I need my beauty sleep. (Lots and lots of beauty sleep)



spunky-gal -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:10:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NiceGuy

***Turn out the lights and I'll glow ***
quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal

I didn't just write that to be beautiful, John_O. I wrote it to express my opinion about the topic of this thread... and I feel like you ignored it. [sm=aside.gif] Oh well.

Aren't we a bottle of sunshine tonight? [sm=icon_smile_roll.gif]

NiceGuy [sm=icon_smile_santa.gif]


Yes, and your post really helps. Thanks. [:)][sm=icon_smile_roll.gif]



John_O -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:11:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
So if you're "allowed" to not wear pink shirts, shouldn't women be "allowed" to not have long hair if long hair makes them feel "icky"????


but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change?



NiceGuy -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:14:46 PM)

***Turn out the lights and I'll glow ***
quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal

Yes, and your post really helps. Thanks. [:)][sm=icon_smile_roll.gif]

You are most welcome. Happy to be of service. [sm=king.gif] Anything else I can do for you?

NiceGuy [sm=icon_smile_santa.gif]



spunky-gal -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

It's beautiful because it is true. Not because of pretty words. I bolded the line that spoke to me of self-sacrifice. Imagine the joy if each person is doing that in the marriage. You would not need to force or prohibit anything because they would be willing, eager even, to do what makes you joyful.


True... but I also spoke of trust. Perhaps you would need to trust your wife when she says that shorter hair could bring you joy too. [sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]

quote:

Maybe I can come up with a better phrasing of it? maybe "How hard would you work to please your spouse?"


And THAT, my friend, is a totally different question. If that's what you meant, why didn't you say that in the first place? [8|] [8D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
So if you're "allowed" to not wear pink shirts, shouldn't women be "allowed" to not have long hair if long hair makes them feel "icky"????


but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change?


If plaid pants and bellbottoms didn't make you feel icky 30 years ago, why would they make you feel icky now?



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:21:08 PM)

quote:

Which brings us to another point. Is it better to look good to him or to look good to you?


What's wrong with doing both? I don't think that one has to loose for the other to win in something like that. And given that there are 365 days in the standard calendar year, I'm pretty sure that I will have ample opportunity to wear his favorite outfits as well as my favorite outfits. His favorite hairstyle as well as my own favorite hairstyle. Would that be a less acceptable situation?

Another thing that comes to mind is personal style. I hope that someone could pick up on my personal style while we are dating. If they have a problem with it, I'd want to know that beforehand to decide if the issue that they take is something that I can change. So, I'd hate for someone to marry me and then try to change my style because they think mine is "frumpy" or whatever. I wouldn't mind having some outfits that are outside of my style to wear because my sweetie liked them, but I'd wonder about someone who expected me to get rid of all of my wardrobe and start over with a style that's not me at all.

But of course, if I think about personal style that brings up the change issue again. I KNOW that people's styles change as they grow. Young folks can sometimes afford to have a more flashy style with more trendy clothes, etc. but when you get older yo realize that you're just lining the pockets of some yahoo that doesn't matter to buy stuff that's not worth the price and you kind of adopt more practical styles. Would you feel like that's deception? If your wife started out dressing "smart casual" and grew into more of a "homestead girl", would you feel like she had sold you a bill of goods? Or would you feel like she just changed what she was into? Would she even be allowed, in your opinion, to change what she is into or after she gets married does what she is into need to become what you are into because as you keep saying, you've got to look at her?

And you keep saying he is the one that has to look at you? You realize that people have to see themselves daily too, right? [sm=icon_smile_boggled.gif]



ladioffaith -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:22:08 PM)

Disclaimer: I've skipped reading most pages of this thread.

I guess the short answer is that I wouldn't marry a man who wanted me to be something I'm not.

I am not thin. I have not been thin since I was 4. I may be smaller from time to time, but thin is not in the realm of possibility for me. One of the reservations I hav about being thinner is that I will attract a man who wants the smaller version, then scare him away when it turns out I can't maintain it.

I do not have long hair. I have not had long hair for about 10 years, when a stylist pursuaded me to ditch my shaggy locks for a look that framed my face better. When I am really broke, sometimes it is 6 months between visits to the stylist, and still my hair does not get "long." Except maybe in the front, and I have to use barettes to hold it out of my eyes so I can work.

And I would never, ever ask any man to get a perm for me. Not even John.



pruned -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:24:43 PM)

quote:

Disclaimer: I've skipped reading most pages of this thread.


While I have spent my evening here reading the book from cover to present cover. What a lively discussion! Carry on!



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:32:39 PM)

quote:

but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change?


spunky-gal said...
quote:

If plaid pants and bellbottoms didn't make you feel icky 30 years ago, why would they make you feel icky now?


That's a perfect answer to this question. Things change, times change, what seemed like a great idea at one point we think better about later. Thank God because I've seen some of the pictures of people in the 60's. I don't know how any of y'all thought you looked good, lol. (Speaking to anybody bold enough to fess up.)


Anyways...hair textures do change a little with time, age, hormonal factors and medications. Hair gets oilier or dryer for some as the years pass. And I know that's not just a Black thing. I've heard many, many women of all ethnicities remark on how thier hair won't do what it used too. At one stage long hair may have been easy for her to deal with or maintain, but a few years later (maybe after carpel tunnel syndrome starts to kick in) that long hair gets harder to maintain and thus makes her feel icky. Or moving to a more or less polluted area makes a difference.

There are a million reasons why something that works for you at age 25 won't work at 35, 45 or 50. Even simple stuff...I mean, really people have to be allowed change....and you can't have the mindset that they are doing it in opposition to your wants. It's just what might need to be.

How I dressed and how I wore my hair when I lived in Oklahoma was different than it is now that I live on the East coast and that's been a little less than 10 years in passing. It's dryer there. The humidity here made me have to rethink my whole hairstyling philosophy. [sm=icon_smile_roll.gif] It worked out for the better in the end, but for a while I was struggling to make myself NOT be a mess as soon as I stepped out of the house.



adoration -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:34:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: semperfidelis

When ya' marry someone, you marry them warts and all. But that doesn't mean you can't pluck the wart hairs or apply some anti-wart cream. [:D]


LOL Oh the wisdom of someone who lives with married people. [;)]



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:38:55 PM)

quote:

I am not thin. I have not been thin since I was 4. I may be smaller from time to time, but thin is not in the realm of possibility for me. One of the reservations I hav about being thinner is that I will attract a man who wants the smaller version, then scare him away when it turns out I can't maintain it.


I had a few friends tell me, a couple of years back, that I should loose some weight and get dolled up and stuff and maybe I'd snag a man. That was the DUMBEST advice that I'd ever gotten and I certainly let them know it.



adoration -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/13/2006 11:52:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married?

Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?


No.

Let me put it this way, it's hard enough for you to deal with the changes your body goes through having children let alone aging to even think of maintaining who you were before you marry (assuming your some young whipper snapper). My body is not the same it was when I was 15. It's changed. So for me to try to keep some standard from some window of time can be almost impossible, and foolish.

I think what is reasonable to ask is to maintain one's health, and work together on that. Maintaining and caring for yourself is important regardless of marriage, it's something we are called to do, because we are not our own now, we were bought with a price and are temples of the Holy Spirit. But trying to keep some standard of "youth", weight, or shape, is silly. Bodies change with time, and life, and can still be healthy, and functioning.

I can say right now I am nothing special, I am me. I have days when I look ok, and days when I do not. Days when I feel like dressing up and days when jeans and a shirt is about it. No day is the same hair day. I assume this will not change after I get married, or age.

There is a part of me that will do special things for my spouse, but they will not be marrying me for that, they will be marrying me for the spirit that has a soul, and only lives in this body, this person I pray will be a blessing all the days of their life.



crzy_4_books -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 12:27:05 AM)

Posting Cold Here.

Well, when I look at relationships, especially with marriage, I think that the other person would make you want to strive to be better than you are. I hope and pray my husband would make me want to be more loving, compassionate, sensitive, caring, wiser, passionate, etc. So in a way I do expect to change a little. I mean we all do, or should change, as our sanctification continues. If that makes any sense....

As far as the other person, I don't want to go into marriage expecting to change my husband. No one is perfect, and we all have our weird personalitiy traits. I will just need to decide if his odd traits are ones I can live with. I hope and pray that I can come along side and truly be a help to him. Whether it be in his job, ministry, or just being there for him when he gets home.

I think communication is the key to it all and the Lord of course[:D]

As far as little things go, like hair style....we could talk about that![;)]



Mrs.Above_All -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 4:36:05 AM)

I don't have to work hard in looking a certain way because John (dawgfan) could care less about how I looked. Yet, I wanna please him. I know that he has a preference to certain things. I finally got him to tell me what length he likes for me. He never would want to communicate to me that appearance matters. To him it's very conditional. And because of his unselfish attitude, I find myself wanting to change. I find myself wanting to do something nice for him. He encourages me to do things that make ME feel good.



olddude -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 7:18:53 AM)

quote:

if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?


For me one item that usually comes into the attraction I have for a woman is that she has qualities in her that I would like to tap into to make me a better man. So would have to say I would work hard at it...but honestly not too hard because women love a project and I want to be an ongoing project for her. And I mean that in the way that she continues to find me attractive and wants to be with me but that there is always one little thing that she wants to tweak some.

As for my job type stuff, I have made a vow to work hard till the day I kick the bucket. As for my body I have made a vow to eat very healthy and work to maintain myself in the best ways I can. That will not change regardless if married or not.

And I will gladly hand over most of out of the house clothes choices to her since I am not that good at it and would like to dress for her, what she likes.

_______________________________

Always drink upstream from the herd



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