RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (Full Version)

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princessreba -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 8:09:19 AM)

Would we become ROBOTS for our spouses or are we going to respect God's unconditional love for us, thereby keeping
idolatry out of all our relationships?



olddude -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 8:30:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brideoffire

Would we become ROBOTS for our spouses or are we going to respect God's unconditional love for us, thereby keeping
idolatry out of all our relationships?


Do not understand



Consecrated2God -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 8:40:26 AM)

I didn't marry a fixer-upper, but he changed for the better anyway. I thought he was wonderful just the way he was, but he's changed so much over the last ten years. I wouldn't want to go back to the way he used to be. In comparison, I look back and think that he used to be overcontrolling and selfish. Plus he's lost weight and I love the way he wears his hair now. He looks great!

My husband thought I was perfect, too, when we got married, but I've changed, too. I look different and act different, too. We've changed. We've grown up. We've both been very happy with each other's changes.

It's not reasonable to expect someone to never change, but it is reasonable to try and change for the better. It's not reasonable to expect someone to grow into a mold that you have picked out for them, but it is reasonable to expect them to grow and be molded into the character of Christ. We will change, for the better or the worst. It's a loving spouse that will help bring out the best in a person for the glory of God, to help that person be everything that they were created to be, not to be their own ideas of what they've always wanted in a spouse.



ContentedOne -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 9:03:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Above_All

I don't have to work hard in looking a certain way because John (dawgfan) could care less about how I looked. Yet, I wanna please him. I know that he has a preference to certain things. I finally got him to tell me what length he likes for me. He never would want to communicate to me that appearance matters. To him it's very conditional. And because of his unselfish attitude, I find myself wanting to change. I find myself wanting to do something nice for him. He encourages me to do things that make ME feel good.


That's a great post! It illustrates what I was attempting to say earlier in this thread. If you love someone you want to do things that make them happy, however... they accept who you are regardless of the success of those attempts. It's all about respect and mutual caring.



ContentedOne -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 9:05:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
My husband can tell me what looks best to him and that's great...but I don't think an outside party can tell me what looks good to me.


Which brings us to another point. Is it better to look good to him or to look good to you?

As long as I was comfortable with it, I wanted to look good to Michele, after all she was the one who had to look at me, and the one I wanted to please. That's why I did the perm (Is that story on this thread?) She even had me wear a pink shirt once (gag. I was only able to do it once, I was far too 'icky' in it even though she said I looked great). I tried to dress how she liked and even wore cologne that she liked.


John, A pink shirt looks great on just about any guy out there... Michele was steering you in the right direction!!



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 9:30:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

So I was wondering. If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?

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........ I would not work hard to stay as I am.... because I am a Christ-Seeker and I am daily changing.... little by little.

I try not to have expectations of my 'future husband'.... because I know he will be a Christ-Seeker, too.... and he will be daily changing....

It's just funner to appreciate the differences in a significant other than to point out what bugs ya... ya know?


quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?

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..... absolutely not. [;)]



gaylel1 -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 9:45:15 AM)

First of all, you cannot change people, regardless of your "fantasy"you want to expect of that person.

I believe many of us what people to change for "us" but only God can change people, not you. The only expectation is that the man I'm seeking is someone who loves the Lord.

That what should matter, not these stupid expectations like long hair, short hair, etc..



momfree -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 9:52:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

Which brings us to another point. Is it better to look good to him or to look good to you?



Ok, first of all, I keep hearing you say that who's opinion should matter most? Mine or hers? Since I have to look at her it should be mine.
WRONG! A woman needs to love and LIKE herself more so then she needs her spouse to. Read that again, because I guarantee you most women you know have at some point struggled with issues of self-esteem. Hence it is extremely important that THEY are happy and like their OWN appearance. I completely disagree that we should strive to look better for somebody else, even your spouse then ourselves. At that point you are looking for your self-worth/value/beauty in someone else's eyes instead of understanding, knowing and believing it for yourself.

Quote "You would not need to force or prohibit anything because they would be willing, eager even, to do what makes you joyful"

Please explain...you would not need to force? Why would you ever force or need to force or prohibit anything? I would hope that any decisions made in marriage is a result of compromising, communication and mutual agreement. If you believe for a second that at some point you'de have to prohibit/force then you have bigger issues.

Another quote:
"but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change"

LOL, ok seriously I think maybe a refresher on woman 101 class is needed hear. Do you not know that is a womans prerogative to CHANGE HER MIND?

Women change, our HAIR changes!!! We may simply change our minds, that's what women do! That is why women restyle their hair, want 30 pairs of shoes, or change furniture around, or re-decorate or like variety when going out to eat, etc. Most women I know are like this (there are exceptions absolutely). We like to mix things up, change a little.

Also, it's so true that our hair texture changes as we age. My hair was completely straight and long b4 kids, after kids I still kept it long but the texture was weired, wavy, frizzy and just plain nasty looking. I cut it shorter for a while, then let it grow out, then cut it again below my ears and now it's back to very long again.

You seem to assume because something was one way when you met that that person will not change w/time, that's erroneous. People change, our style may change, our hair may change, even our personalities can change! I look at who I was in my 20's compared to my 30's and I'm a COMPLETELY different person (and I happen to like myself a lot more now lol). And I expect to keep changing/growing/maturing physically and mentally and emotionally.

Oh, and about striving to please our spouse? I think everyone is and believes differently, some will bend over backwards to please, some won't. Doesn't make one better then the other, just different!

I can see that if your spouse is humble/gentle/kind/supportive/respectful then normally, yes you will try to please them also if it means wearing say a cologne you aren't necessarily crazy about but they like.

Look, I bended myself into a pretzel 1000 times over trying to please a spouse who would then find something else that should change to please him. It doesn't work, all that does it assasinate your self-esteem and confidence. IF I were dating somebody even that made me doubt myself, my opinions, my thoughts, or make me in ANY way loose confidence in myself by their actions/thoughts/desires of how I should be then it's OVER. I wouldn't even go past a dating stage. And IF I ever remarried then you better believe it will be to somebody who completely accepts who I am, with the understanding that I may and probably will change and grow in different ways and will love that about me also and accept as I would accept them as well. All it is is a question of finding somebody who is on the same page about that as I am and who is mature enough to understand and love me for the confidence I have in myself to make my own choices and do with my hair as I please ;)



Pax2y_all -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 10:24:14 AM)

Back in my post #23, I said, "Believe me, the union of your spirits happens long before the pretty words are spoken."

May I simply explain that no union of your spirits is possible, if all you have seen is the outward appearance of the other person.

What many writers here, with a few exceptions, seem to be debating is, "What shall I, (or am I willing to) accept, in physical changes, after I become esposued." It sounds very much to me that your continued couple-ness is bound by whatever unsatisfactory 'physical appearance' line (or changes) the other might cross (or make).

And such expectations are bound to fail. I hope your mate is not Dorian Gray! He or she is going to change physically, from day to day. By the way, you will also change day by day.

In addition, some changes are down-right necessary for the comfort or pleasure of the other. Take, for example, the point that Judy made to me, when she saw my 55th-birthday portrait. Judy told me, "Frank, you're a handsome man." Yeah, she got me there! On the other hand, my mustache, which was not involved in any other physical activity than straining my soup, for the last 12 years, "needs to be trimmed, so I can kiss your upperlip, not eat hair," Judy pointed out.

Hey, I want Judy to want to kiss me! I cut that sucker, next day. Not because she was coming the next day, and I'd be getting kisses--but just in case she snuck up here, kissing would be on the agenda!

Truly, the Lord told me Judy was she whom He had chosen for me, and I had no earthly idea what she looked like, for weeks. I never knew what Judy looked like--had no current photograph of her, until I was in the hospital. In fact, I told Judy weeks before she sent that photograph that, "it didn't matter, at all, to me," what she looked like. I explained that it was God who decided that it would be Judy (however she appeared to me) who would complete me, here on earth. I've learned not to automtatically expect great things out of great looking women. Oh yeah, I have learned that, first hand.

For those of you who have written that men or women are first attracted to the other person's looks, I say, "You're looking at a package, not a person!"

And if the person beneath that package is everything you want for completion in your earthly life, insofar as a helpmate, a lover, the mother or father of your children; is it then your intent, to leave the package unopened, for fear of damaging the pretty paper and bows?

Not me, not Judy; when the time comes, we fully intend to rip those packages apart, throw the scraps everywhere, and find the operating instructions, and batteries! If we're in too much of a hurry, we might get the batteries in backwards, and, in my case, I won't be banging the cymbals and turning backflips. Then, Judy will get the batteries in the correct way, and I will operate just the way the Creator intended. I'll be Judy's favorite toy.

You folks need to demand honesty, Spirit-filled Godliness, AND A HEAPING HELPING of fun and fulfillment, in a potential mate. Not beauty, which fades faster than a cheap watermark on a Diploma Mill sheepskin--the kind of beauty that sets YOU apart as the WORTHY your mate was rightfully searching for.

As sure as there is a God, a Creator, He chose the perfect helpmate for you, before the creation of the universe. He intended to give you an opportunity to cross paths with him or her, maybe even several times, to see if you were smart enough to prize substance over packaging.

Love,
Frank



Elena1030 -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 10:33:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pax2y_all
You folks need to demand honesty, Spirit-filled Godliness, AND A HEAPING HELPING of fun and fulfillment, in a potential mate. Not beauty, which fades faster than a cheap watermark on a Diploma Mill sheepskin--the kind of beauty that sets YOU apart as the WORTHY your mate was rightfully searching for.


Frank, your entire post blessed my soul, right down to its tippy-toes!! I think my soul grew three inches with that post! Most edifying... Most edifying, indeed!



Psalms274 -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 11:04:33 AM)

quote:

Who is given biblical ownership of your body and has given biblical ownership of his body to you?


First of all ... about this reference ... there is one place in the entire bible that talks about the wife's body, and husband's body (1 Cor 7:4). I looked up every Greek word translated in that verse, and the best actual translation (the one closest to what the Greek language stated) was the amplified and NIV ... Amplified first:

quote:

For the wife does not have [exclusive] authority and control over her own body, but the husband [has his rights]; likewise also the husband does not have [exclusive] authority and control over his body, but the wife [has her rights].


The NIV ...

quote:

The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.


This verse is referring to the marriage bed (not hairdos! [;)]) ... and the Greek clearly does not give sole authority to the spouse ... it is now shared. It has been wrongly used (along with "wives submit to your husbands) by the few men who wish to lord over their wife, and has been used as an excuse for some to beat them by a few men. (Not the norm.) The obsession that there seems to be with making sure your wife stays the same, is a bit disturbing to read in leiu of the way you are also using these scriptures in an incorrect manner ... because the emphasis is in the wrong place. Let me tell you why.

As Frank just said,

quote:

For those of you who have written that men or women are first attracted to the other person's looks, I say, "You're looking at a package, not a person!"


This can apply to the posts that argue that a woman should keep her hair a certian way to please her husband. It sounds like an argument that one would use if that person was more concerned about his future sexual pleasure than he is about the person he is married to. We all at some level hope that our future spouse is attractive (that is if it is in God's plan for our life to be married.) But for that to be the first thing you look for ... John, you've expressed disapointment that it didn't stay the same with Michele. (... I know you loved her, but you were disappointed with the wieght and hair change, and seem to be on a mission to make sure that doesn't happen the second time around.) Only God knows what is best for you. And because He allowed Michele to be ill, gain weight and enjoy the many different things with her hair [:)] ... I suspect He might be attempting to teach you something that you have yet to learn.

quote:

Truly, the Lord told me Judy was she whom He had chosen for me, and I had no earthly idea what she looked like, for weeks. I never knew what Judy looked like--had no current photograph of her, until I was in the hospital. In fact, I told Judy weeks before she sent that photograph that, "it didn't matter, at all, to me," what she looked like. I explained that it was God who decided that it would be Judy (however she appeared to me) who would complete me, here on earth.

For those of you who have written that men or women are first attracted to the other person's looks, I say, "You're looking at a package, not a person!"

And if the person beneath that package is everything you want for completion in your earthly life, insofar as a helpmate, a lover, the mother or father of your children; is it then your intent, to leave the package unopened, for fear of damaging the pretty paper and bows?


Frank, you spoke that truth perfectly. The entire post was wonderful.

I have editted this in an attempt to make it not as harsh as it first looked to me. It is so hard to use only the written word to communicate. [&:]



lynnmoon -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 11:52:08 AM)

Frank, amazing post and very thoughtful words!!!!!!!! There is yet hope, lol.



joy2give2u -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 1:56:19 PM)

Very interesting thread. I wonder why this is sparking such passion from women?

I guess I will add my two cents worth.

If a man marries a woman just as she is and expects her to stay the same does that include things which make her more beautiful? Or does it only apply to things which make her less attractive in his eyes? I am guessing as long as she becomes more attractive change is good. Which makes me think doesn't "for better or for worse" apply to every aspect of the marriage even the physical?

I was a little suprised how big an issue long hair is in this discussion. Is it really the hair or does the hair symbolize something else? I have long hair and keep it this way because for me it is easier. When I meet my husband I will have long hair, if he loves it long why would it be such a big deal for me to keep it that way for him once I was married? Women often change their hair as a mini fresh start in their lives. A change in hair style can mean much more then just a change in hair style.

Personally I find men with long hair very attractive. Would you grow your hair long for your wife John? It is more about what she finds attractive then what is practical and easy for you right? [:D]

This thread made me curious so I asked several older co workers, all having been married more then 25 years (one married for 45) the question. Their responses were interesting. Very interesting. Equally interesting was comparing the wives response to the mans.



Pax2y_all -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 1:58:50 PM)

joy2give2u:

Many of the responders are divorced or widowed singles. Just so you know.



cheshirecat -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 2:19:05 PM)

Being loved sight unseen is the most amazing gift that God has ever given me (besides salvation). I will thank God for that and for Frank for the rest of my life. I don't have the way with words that Frank does, I wish I did so I could express what a wonderful, godly man he is. Read his words again and think about them. There are way too many people missing out on what God has for them because of the limitations they impose on themselves and others.



joy2give2u -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 2:25:58 PM)

quote:

oy2give2u:

Many of the responders are divorced or widowed singles. Just so you know.


Yeah I was thinking more of age when I wrote the last comment. The women and men I talked to were older then 60 and married 35,45, 47. I wasn't thinking about people having experience in marriage but the lenght of the experience in relationship to the age of the person asked. My dad always says if you want answers about life ask someone who has lived it for longer then you have been alive [:D]

One thing I found interesting (remember my sampling was small) the men wanted their wives to stay the way they were when they married and the women admitted they wanted some things to change. Now 45 years later the men say their wives changed and the woman said the men didn't ...LOL.....maybe it is just me but I found that really humorous [:D] Interesting all claim they would not change a thing.



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 2:27:58 PM)

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....... gosh, Judy is a lucky chic!! [sm=icon_smile_blush.gif]



joy2give2u -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 2:29:40 PM)

quote:

There are way too many people missing out on what God has for them because of the limitations they impose on themselves and others.

Truth spoken is always well said [:D]



cheshirecat -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 2:35:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysR8chel

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....... gosh, Judy is a lucky chic!! [sm=icon_smile_blush.gif]


Yes I am!!!



mmartiandt -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 3:09:32 PM)

quote:

Ok, first of all, I keep hearing you say that who's opinion should matter most? Mine or hers? Since I have to look at her it should be mine.
WRONG! A woman needs to love and LIKE herself more so then she needs her spouse to. Read that again, because I guarantee you most women you know have at some point struggled with issues of self-esteem. Hence it is extremely important that THEY are happy and like their OWN appearance. I completely disagree that we should strive to look better for somebody else, even your spouse then ourselves. At that point you are looking for your self-worth/value/beauty in someone else's eyes instead of understanding, knowing and believing it for yourself.


momfree, I think you hit it on the head here. For example, I have been trying to lose weight since I became overweight. Everytime I have tried to lose weight for someone, with the thought that they will like me better, that perhaps I can impress some unknown person, or when family, friends or doctors said I should, I have FAILED miserably! It wasn't until I decided that I liked myself too much to let myself remain unhappy that I was able to take off any weight at all. I have lost over 40 pounds to date, but everytime I start focusing on doing it for someone else, I FAIL and regain some. When my mindset is that it is a change for me, and my goals are all the things that I want to do when I get there, I can stay on track and be successful.

Another example. When I used to wear my hair long, I hated it, hated having to get up earlier to do it, hated that it looked bad, and felt that I was some subgrade because long hair just looks horrible on me. In some ways, I was hiding behind the long hair, because it felt safe to know that I looked less than appealing, especially because I didn't like myself very much. When I decided that I liked myself enough to have a hairstyle that flattered me, that was fun, and showed my personality, I felt better. I have no problem spending extra time doing my hair now, because I know it looks good on me.

The examples could go on and on. All in all, my outlook on life and everything else is best when I truly LIKE myself, and when changes that I know need to happen, are happening for ME. I may be wrong, but I think that truly liking myself frees me to be who God created me to be!



stellaluna -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 3:45:01 PM)

For whoever asked, I think the reason hair keeps coming up is because the OP referred to it, then compared a hairstyle to changing clothes. Which we all know can't really be compared. [8|]

I don't think it's true that men always marry someone they want to be exactly the same for the next 50-something years; and I don't think it's true that all women are looking for someone they can fix up. Both those kinds of people can be found in both genders, but I don't think it's the norm.



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 5:49:25 PM)

Even though this entire thread is at least remotely creepy, and banal, I'm still compelled to comment on the general vapid shallowness of it.

Long hair, short hair, fashionable clothing, baldness, thickness, or what have you seems so completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. If you marry someone, are you in love or not? Love as I understand it transcends all this garbage, or it's worthless. What happens if someone is disfigured in an accident? What if a spouse loses a limb or organ due to surgery or disease? Will you still be able to see into the eyes of someone you love unconditionally? If not, buy a doll, or a dog, or a nice painting.



p31woman -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 5:57:36 PM)

quote:

Love as I understand it transcends all this garbage, or it's worthless.


And all the ladies swoon. [;)]



PreserveWildlife -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 6:08:01 PM)

Until I'm in the situation I have no idea how I'll ultimately react. I can only think of how I hope I'll react.



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be? (12/14/2006 6:14:41 PM)

quote:

And all the ladies swoon.


It goes both ways, I don't want to scar myself up in a horrid hedge-trimmer incident and have to worry my wife will leave me. [8|]



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