RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 6:45:47 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
Even though this entire thread is at least remotely creepy, and banal, I'm still compelled to comment on the general vapid shallowness of it.
Long hair, short hair, fashionable clothing, baldness, thickness, or what have you seems so completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. If you marry someone, are you in love or not? Love as I understand it transcends all this garbage, or it's worthless. What happens if someone is disfigured in an accident? What if a spouse loses a limb or organ due to surgery or disease? Will you still be able to see into the eyes of someone you love unconditionally? If not, buy a doll, or a dog, or a nice painting.
While I agree with HPD's post unconditionally, the boldfaced parts are the ones I think are particularly applicable in this thread.
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This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 6:51:42 PM
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BugLady
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*sigh* I'm so relieved. I was thinking for certain there for awhile I must be from another world.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 9:18:46 PM
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likealilly
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Wow, Frank wrote a really nice post!
I personally think it's a good thing to try and be pleasing to your spouse. I think both should endeavor to want to please one another, and help each other become better...... better Christians.
But Frank is right...it's the Holy Spirit in two people that is shared.....and He really is the glue that holds a husband and wife together. The other stuff is just icing on the cake. It's important, but so is sharing the love of God together. The ideal marriage is a picture of Christ and the church. And each person should want to put Christ first, even if they have a stuggle trying to do it. You are helping your spouse to grow when you put Jesus first in your marriage. Cuz they are not only your mate, but also your brother or sister in Christ.
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Like a lily among thorns is my darling among the maidens.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 9:51:44 PM
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adoration
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Despite some heat in here, very nice you guys and gals, very nice indeed. Some of you are spot on.
I look at my family, they've all changed, but I do not love them any less, as I've grown with them, learned more about them, the more I love them - regardless of their inner and outer imperfections - with a spouse, that will not change.
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Dancing in my Father's arms.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 10:25:49 PM
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gaylel1
Posts: 1253
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I wish you people realize that in the bible, beauty will fade overtime, meaning that that hourglass figure, those white teeth, even that perfect hair will not be perfect anymore. We are, believe it or not are shells and yes, we all growing older by the minute.
It is not all about looks, people, but the charater and the heart.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 10:40:58 PM
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likealilly
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quote:
but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change?
I just read through the whole post and while I agree with some of the thoughts of the other posters, I think John O does have a point here. I don't think he's being unreasonable when he is stating his preferences in what he likes and doesn't like. I don't honestly think he is being selfish. He is just saying what he likes and he'd like it to stay the same. As much as that is possible.
Is it really that hard to want to take a little extra time, to want to please the other person? I don't think so. What's so difficult about it?I personally like to take care of myself for myself, but if it was going to make my mate happy for me to do something, I would do it because you want to show them you care for their feelings and wishes. And I would certainly hope they would want to do likewise. Otherwise, that would be unfair.
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Like a lily among thorns is my darling among the maidens.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:03:55 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
So, I'd hate for someone to marry me and then try to change my style because they think mine is "frumpy" or whatever.
No this is not what I'm asking at all. I'm assuming that the person you married loved your style when he married you and you are changing it later. For example, you had long hair all while dating and for the wedding and then changed to short hair, or dressed conservatively all while dating and then more unconventionally when married.
He married you, we already know he loves you and your style, so why change it?
quote:
But of course, if I think about personal style that brings up the change issue again. I KNOW that people's styles change as they grow. Young folks can sometimes afford to have a more flashy style with more trendy clothes, etc. but when you get older yo realize that you're just lining the pockets of some yahoo that doesn't matter to buy stuff that's not worth the price and you kind of adopt more practical styles. Would you feel like that's deception? If your wife started out dressing "smart casual" and grew into more of a "homestead girl", would you feel like she had sold you a bill of goods?
if she was the same under the clothes (within reason) then it wouldn't bother me. I've never been much into clothes anyway.
quote:
Would she even be allowed, in your opinion, to change what she is into or after she gets married does what she is into need to become what you are into because as you keep saying, you've got to look at her?
It's not a question of allowing. No man in his right mind would ever think he could stop his wife from wearing her hair one way or dressing some way. Nor would he want to. The question is if you knew he liked longer hair, for example, would you cut it anyway?
< Message edited by John_O -- 12/14/2006 11:49:30 PM >
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:19:19 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: momfree
Ok, first of all, I keep hearing you say that who's opinion should matter most? Mine or hers? Since I have to look at her it should be mine.
WRONG! A woman needs to love and LIKE herself more so then she needs her spouse to. Read that again, because I guarantee you most women you know have at some point struggled with issues of self-esteem. Hence it is extremely important that THEY are happy and like their OWN appearance. I completely disagree that we should strive to look better for somebody else, even your spouse then ourselves. At that point you are looking for your self-worth/value/beauty in someone else's eyes instead of understanding, knowing and believing it for yourself.
Hey ladies! Please comment on this. Is this indeed true in your eyes?
quote:
Quote "You would not need to force or prohibit anything because they would be willing, eager even, to do what makes you joyful"
Please explain...you would not need to force? Why would you ever force or need to force or prohibit anything? I would hope that any decisions made in marriage is a result of compromising, communication and mutual agreement. If you believe for a second that at some point you'de have to prohibit/force then you have bigger issues.
Read Her Spunkiness' wedding promise again. then it will make sense.
quote:
Another quote:
"but if she had long hair when we married then I already know that it doesn't make her feel icky? Why would it change"
LOL, ok seriously I think maybe a refresher on woman 101 class is needed hear. Do you not know that is a womans prerogative to CHANGE HER MIND?
Women change, our HAIR changes!!! We may simply change our minds, that's what women do! That is why women restyle their hair, want 30 pairs of shoes, or change furniture around, or re-decorate or like variety when going out to eat, etc. Most women I know are like this (there are exceptions absolutely). We like to mix things up, change a little.
I guess the answer to this depends on the answer to your first paragraph. Is change so important to your self esteem that it really doesn't matter what your husband prefers?
quote:
Look, I bended myself into a pretzel 1000 times over trying to please a spouse who would then find something else that should change to please him. It doesn't work, all that does it assasinate your self-esteem and confidence. IF I were dating somebody even that made me doubt myself, my opinions, my thoughts, or make me in ANY way loose confidence in myself by their actions/thoughts/desires of how I should be then it's OVER. I wouldn't even go past a dating stage. And IF I ever remarried then you better believe it will be to somebody who completely accepts who I am, with the understanding that I may and probably will change and grow in different ways and will love that about me also and accept as I would accept them as well. All it is is a question of finding somebody who is on the same page about that as I am and who is mature enough to understand and love me for the confidence I have in myself to make my own choices and do with my hair as I please ;)
So where's the happy medium? How do each persons' desires get met. Your paragraph here reads like "I'll do what I like and he had better well like it too" I know you don't mean that. So how do we find the middle point? Is there a middle point?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:27:30 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
Personally I find men with long hair very attractive. Would you grow your hair long for your wife John? It is more about what she finds attractive then what is practical and easy for you right? 
Actually I look very bad in long hair, and have the pictures to prove it (and that was back in high school. Now that may hair is thinned a bit on top it would look downright scary. Kind of like an old hippie trying to hold on to the last dying vestiges of his youth) . Since my wife will never see me in long hair while we are dating or at the wedding I'd assume that she liked me in short hair. Why change??
Great post BTW I'm interested in hearing a synopsis of your co-workers responses.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:30:28 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: joy2give2u
quote:
oy2give2u:
Many of the responders are divorced or widowed singles. Just so you know.
One thing I found interesting (remember my sampling was small) the men wanted their wives to stay the way they were when they married and the women admitted they wanted some things to change. Now 45 years later the men say their wives changed and the woman said the men didn't ...LOL.....maybe it is just me but I found that really humorous Interesting all claim they would not change a thing.
This lines up with the original contention. That men marry ready to move in and woman marry fixer uppers. And then takes it to the next step. Does that really matter? And the survey says....apparently not.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:32:02 PM
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pruned
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quote:
ORIGINAL: momfree
Ok, first of all, I keep hearing you say that who's opinion should matter most? Mine or hers? Since I have to look at her it should be mine.
WRONG! A woman needs to love and LIKE herself more so then she needs her spouse to. Read that again, because I guarantee you most women you know have at some point struggled with issues of self-esteem. Hence it is extremely important that THEY are happy and like their OWN appearance. I completely disagree that we should strive to look better for somebody else, even your spouse then ourselves. At that point you are looking for your self-worth/value/beauty in someone else's eyes instead of understanding, knowing and believing it for yourself.
emphasis mine
quote:
Hey ladies! Please comment on this. Is this indeed true in your eyes?
Yes.
In fact most of what each woman here has told you has been true of our gender. Lynnmoon's explanations were great. Spunky knows her stuff. And momfree is right on. There will always be exceptions. And some of our replies apply more to a broader base than others. But no one has stated something with which most of us cannot identify.
< Message edited by pruned -- 12/14/2006 11:48:44 PM >
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:32:23 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mmartiandt
The examples could go on and on. All in all, my outlook on life and everything else is best when I truly LIKE myself, and when changes that I know need to happen, are happening for ME. I may be wrong, but I think that truly liking myself frees me to be who God created me to be!
Thanks Denise. Good honest answers
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:43:10 PM
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spunky-gal
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quote:
quote:
Please explain...you would not need to force? Why would you ever force or need to force or prohibit anything? I would hope that any decisions made in marriage is a result of compromising, communication and mutual agreement. If you believe for a second that at some point you'de have to prohibit/force then you have bigger issues.
Read Her Spunkiness' wedding promise again. then it will make sense.
Just for the record, that was *NOT* a wedding promise. I would NOT choose to speak ALL of those words in a wedding ceremony. Some of them, however, describe the often-unspoken commitment husbands and wives make (or should make) to each other.
Obviously spouses should never force or prohibit anything. But TO ME, it basically sounds like John_O is saying, "If my wife loves me, she'll keep her hair long." And if *I* were his wife (which I won't be)... honestly? -- I think I'd feel manipulated. I'd feel like he was basically prohibiting me from cutting my hair, forcing me to keep it long because that's how he prefers it... and because that's a benchmark of my love for him.
John_O, if long hair is THAT important to you, I hope you make that clear to whomever you might marry. And I hope you find someone who resists change as much as you do. 
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:48:53 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
Even though this entire thread is at least remotely creepy, and banal, I'm still compelled to comment on the general vapid shallowness of it.
Long hair, short hair, fashionable clothing, baldness, thickness, or what have you seems so completely irrelevant to the subject at hand. If you marry someone, are you in love or not? Love as I understand it transcends all this garbage, or it's worthless. What happens if someone is disfigured in an accident? What if a spouse loses a limb or organ due to surgery or disease? Will you still be able to see into the eyes of someone you love unconditionally?
Been through all of these things in a way that I hope no one else here will ever experience and loved her unconditionally until the end. and beyond. (she didn't lose her limb, she lost her mind. It would have been better if it were only a physical injury)
Now could I ask people to explain to me why even asking the question that was asked, "How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be" should be met with such anger or resentment?
How about answering the questions in the OP. What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.
quote:
If you're a woman, how hard would you work to stay what you are when you get married and if you're a man how hard would you work at becomming what she wants you to be?
Is it even reasonable to ask such things of our spouse?
No one needs to be beaten up over asking questions. Perhaps the best posters on the thread so far have been lynnmoon, frank and joy2give2u. They at least made an attempt to answer the questions and we've all learned from those answers (if we've actually read what is actually written instead of what we think people are saying.)
(I had a really good rant here and it felt so good to write it out. Fortunately writing it and deleting it is usually enough to get it out of my system)
Now. Can we discuss this without assuming that people are going to abandon their spouses at the first ounce of weight gain or the first hair cut? And can we discuss it without getting all offended about it? (If we can't that's fine, let me know and I'll just drop back into clownster mode and move serious discussions elsewhere)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/14/2006 11:52:55 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lynnmoon
I'd kind of like to know that my sweetie won't just be making a "choice" to love me even though I repulse him at some point. I'd like to know that we've got something much deeper that means he can look into my eyes in various stages and still feel like I'm who he wants come what may. Same for me.
So physical attraction has nothing to do with love. (I'm making a statement here not asking a question for those ready to beat me up)
So I'd assume that everyone wants to be physically attractive to their mate. Is this true? (I didn't ask if they could, or even if it was possible, I asked if they wanted that)
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:00:09 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
quote:
quote:
Please explain...you would not need to force? Why would you ever force or need to force or prohibit anything? I would hope that any decisions made in marriage is a result of compromising, communication and mutual agreement. If you believe for a second that at some point you'de have to prohibit/force then you have bigger issues.
Read Her Spunkiness' wedding promise again. then it will make sense.
Just for the record, that was *NOT* a wedding promise. I would NOT choose to speak ALL of those words in a wedding ceremony. Some of them, however, describe the often-unspoken commitment husbands and wives make (or should make) to each other.
I stand corrected. I just didn't know what else to call it at that moment.
quote:
Obviously spouses should never force or prohibit anything. But TO ME, it basically sounds like John_O is saying, "If my wife loves me, she'll keep her hair long."
And you will find that I never said that. I would like to think that she'd want to please me as I'd want to please her. Exactly like in your (whatever you want to call it) referenced above. Does that mean that I can prohibit her from doing anything? I don't think so. I've got a good enough grasp on reality to know I can't stop anyone from doing anything.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:03:12 AM
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spunky-gal
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
And you will find that I never said that. I would like to think that she'd want to please me as I'd want to please her.
No, not specifically, but it still sounds like you're saying, "If you really want to please me, you'll keep your hair long."
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:04:36 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1280
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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quote:
Been through all of these things in a way that I hope no one else here will ever experience and loved her unconditionally until the end. and beyond. (she didn't lose her limb, she lost her mind. It would have been better if it were only a physical injury)
Now could I ask people to explain to me why even asking the question that was asked, "How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be" should be met with such anger or resentment?
Exactly John, which means that you should know exactly what I mean when I speak of throwing aside the superficial flotsam and jetsom which become pointless inevitably.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:09:21 AM
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adoration
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What is interesting is that this thread raises an issue I've heard a lot of real arguments over. There is a lot of give and take in marriage. A LOT, and I can't overemphasize that enough. I don't think people would abandon their spouses over it but they might have an argurment over some of this for real. Which is why in my mind, in thinking ahead, one has to realize sometimes we have to let go of our own desires to put another's above our own. Knowing when and how this is done and not abused is a skill mixed with wisdom and understanding.
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Dancing in my Father's arms.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:17:18 AM
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mutinywxgirl
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quote:
Been through all of these things in a way that I hope no one else here will ever experience and loved her unconditionally until the end. and beyond. (she didn't lose her limb, she lost her mind. It would have been better if it were only a physical injury)
Now could I ask people to explain to me why even asking the question that was asked, "How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be" should be met with such anger or resentment?
How about answering the questions in the OP. What's more foolish, A man expecting his wife won't change or a woman expecting her husband will.
Disclaimer - I have not read through everything, but I have read a good portion of this thread (I was glancing through things at work and not able to truly read all the posts).
This past summer I cut my hair into a style that I knew someone liked. I had my hair longer but it had no style to it. What it is now is 'professional' and I like it this way. My hair HAS changed over the past 10 years - it's gotten curlier (from being completely straight when I was a kid) to where how I wear it now is different from even a few years ago. But, because I AM a cosmetologist, I know how to work with it. And while I do love long hair, mine won't ever be truly long - it won't grow much past my lower shoulder blades. Anyway, if I knew my husband liked my hair a certain way, I would wear it that way as much as possible, because I knew it pleased him. If though, it was giving me fits in that style, then I would discuss with him before making a major change in it.
Regarding John's question (which is a good one), I do think that I would do my best to remain as close to what I was when I got married. Seeing that I'm obviously going to be older, I'll have to work harder, but it's okay. I fully believe that I'll be better at 50 than I was at 20! I intend to be healthy (long story there - not for this thread).
Love needs to be unconditional - complete and utter acceptance of who one is, without the desire to change anything. When this happens, then the rest all falls into place and IMHO, doing things to please or honor your spouse should be a no brainer.
For me, I take the time to look "nice" no matter where I'm going - because it makes me feel better. But, once I'm married, I will be even more prone to do it because I know my husband likes me that way and me looking/feeling good about myself only shows him in a better light. I have a very 'classic' style, and even my 'casual' look is dressed up to many people. But, it's how I'm comfortable.
And regarding a woman having to like herself, yes, this is true - a woman needs to be comfortable in her own body and with herself on so many different levels. I'm finding out all sorts of things about myself as I face the impending death of my only sibling. It's forcing me to grow in ways I didn't realize I needed. I also am having to unlearn many things that were put into my head about myself - and while I have a ways to go, I am doing a whole lot better than I was this time last year. I fully intend to be a complete woman when I marry - one who loves herself and is willing to take care of herself so she can be a helper to her husband.
I hope this makes sense.
< Message edited by mutinywxgirl -- 12/15/2006 1:06:53 AM >
_____________________________
When blood and water hit the ground.
Walls we couldn't move came crashing down.
We were free and made alive.
The day true love died. The day true love died.
Lisa is happy THE ROWDIES ARE BACK!
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:26:26 AM
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Psalms274
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quote:
Can we discuss this without assuming that people are going to abandon their spouses at the first ounce of weight gain or the first hair cut? And can we discuss it without getting all offended about it?
I think the reason some have gotten up in arms over this is:
knowing that your husband felt this way about weight gain or hair changes, no matter how much I was reassure with his words, I would be living with the knowledge that my husband is disappointed in what has happened to me after being married. If I was a woman who married a man and because of health reasons or metabolism changes or whatever it was, gained weight ... it would be very hard to forget that because of this change I am now a dissapointment. This would do serious damage to self worth.
It is important for both people involved in the marriage to let go of these types of expectations and simply do what is in their individual power to edify and honor their spouse.
Another sore point, for me, is using scripture incorrectly to build a point. Anyone can find a single scripture to justify their point ... it needs to be done with the utmost of care.
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I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
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