RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be?
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 12:54:35 AM
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CoeurdeLeon_
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What I'm hearing is the same thing I heard from guys in high school...."if you love me you'll_____________". That's flat-out manipulation and, in this case, using God to back it up.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 1:01:50 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1280
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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...and the lion nails it.
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Molon Labe
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:00:13 AM
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momfree
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
What I'm hearing is the same thing I heard from guys in high school...."if you love me you'll_____________". That's flat-out manipulation and, in this case, using God to back it up.
BINGO!!
_____________________________
"Peace is the absence of anger"
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:10:49 AM
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InquiringMindSJ
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Ok, this may just be me, but I see a big difference between the length of someone's hair and other things like developing unhealthy lifestyles or gaining a lot of weight.
Would I be upset if my husband thought I was no longer attractive and he was not attracted to me because of something as silly as a haircut?? Yeah....that would bother me a lot.
Would I be upset because my husband wanted me to stay at a healthy weight and be active and eat right? Not at all...I would hope he would want to do the same for me. I grew up with a mom and dad who did not take care of themselves. My dad has now passed away and my mom is overweight and unhealthy. I don't want to shorten the time I will have or the quality of that time with my future husband. So, will I work out as much as my schudle would reasonably allow for, absolutely. Will I make an effort to provide good and healthy food and meals? You betcha.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:14:06 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spunky-gal
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
And you will find that I never said that. I would like to think that she'd want to please me as I'd want to please her.
No, not specifically, but it still sounds like you're saying, "If you really want to please me, you'll keep your hair long."
NO. What I was asking is if you knew your husband liked long hair (for example) how hard would you work at being what your husband likes.
It's really not as hard as people are making this to be. And the question was never about what he told you or commanded or whatever other word people keep throwing in there, it was about you. How hard would you work to please your husband. Not because he tells you to but because you want to.
Perhaps people should all take a prayer break and ask God to help them see themselves here. I'm getting accused of all sorts of nasty things like having no regard for my wife's feelings or basing my love for her on her hair length or being willing to abandon her if she cuts her hair just because I asked this question.
Why does this bring up such a reaction from people? Could it be because some of us would not work at all to please our mates (but don't want to admit to themselves)? Think about it. I'm being accused of having no regard for her feelings yet the responses I get tell me that the man has no right to even ask her to keep her hair long (for example). Which shows that those people are doing exactly what I'm being accused of, having no regard for their spouse's feelings.
Why is this such a confrontational topic. Wouldn't everyone want to please their mate? I always wanted to (and still do for that matter), but the responses I've seen on this thread lead me to think most people here feel otherwise. And that saddens me.
I understand that some here have had rotten marriages before to very controlling people who didn't care about their spouse's needs or opinions. And my heart grieves for them, marriage is not supposed to be like that. But we cannot let ourselves become like they were by refusing any effort to please our next spouse.
Does anything I am saying here make sense at all to any of you? Pray about it.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:19:27 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
quote:
Been through all of these things in a way that I hope no one else here will ever experience and loved her unconditionally until the end. and beyond. (she didn't lose her limb, she lost her mind. It would have been better if it were only a physical injury)
Now could I ask people to explain to me why even asking the question that was asked, "How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be" should be met with such anger or resentment?
Exactly John, which means that you should know exactly what I mean when I speak of throwing aside the superficial flotsam and jetsom which become pointless inevitably.
Is it superficial to want to please your mate? I don't think so. Throughout my marriage I sought to please Michele, and she sought to please me. This is how it's supposed to be. Now we can't always have everything we want, but we should have enough regard for our spouse's feelings to be willing to try. Michele tried to please me. I tried to please her. It seems that many people on this thread would refuse to even listen to their spouse's requests let alone try to answer them.
Why is it so hard to answer the question "how hard would you work to be what you spouse wanted you to be" (as defined in the OP) Rather than answer the question most folk have attacked the messenger. Why? See my post to her Spunkiness
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:21:09 AM
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gaylel1
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It seems like most (not all Christian men and this is not directed to you John or anyone else here) want this "perfect person"-that is a person who is not of normal size, but they want so perfect that they don't take in consideration the charater and the heart of the person (I said it once before, didn't I?). This is one of the reasons why I don't do internet dating, for example because in those profiles these men (who profess to be believers) want someone who has a fashion-model figure and no physical flaws, and this includes marriage.
Threads like these make me feel that even though I am 40-something and trying her best to live a Christian life which should the first attraction anyways, like I don't have anything to offer anyways and not perfect in a "man's eyes." I should not think so, but at times, this is the way I feel.
And no wonder women are flocking to non-beliving men because we, men and women are expecting too much as far as expectations.
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Hear "The Truth" with the "other"l Jeff Johnson(http://www.calvarydowney.org)
Visit me at http:www.gayleplace.blogspot.com or http://www.myspace.com/gaylel121
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:27:10 AM
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InquiringMindSJ
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quote:
"how hard would you work to be what you spouse wanted you to be"
When I get married, it will be because I love the person I'm with and I want to be with them for the rest of my life. I do not want a fixer up kind of guy and I don't want to be fixed up either.
Does that mean I want someone who has a perfect body and physical appearance? Nope. And why? Because I'm not near perfect either. LOL!
I don't want to "be" the person my husband wants....I want to "be" the person that God wants me to be. Hopefully, that will be enough. If not, I guess I'm doomed to a failed future marriage, or a miserable one at that.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:30:37 AM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: momfree
Ok, first of all, I keep hearing you say that who's opinion should matter most? Mine or hers? Since I have to look at her it should be mine.
WRONG! A woman needs to love and LIKE herself more so then she needs her spouse to. Read that again, because I guarantee you most women you know have at some point struggled with issues of self-esteem. Hence it is extremely important that THEY are happy and like their OWN appearance. I completely disagree that we should strive to look better for somebody else, even your spouse then ourselves. At that point you are looking for your self-worth/value/beauty in someone else's eyes instead of understanding, knowing and believing it for yourself.
Hey ladies! Please comment on this. Is this indeed true in your eyes?
Not in my eyes...but in the eyes of many women it is true. Most of the counseling I do with women ends up being a rather lengthy timeframe as we process "esteem" issues.
It's a tender and delicate area usually punctuated with a past of violent abuse. It is more than a bible-verse bandaid or a single appointment to make them "feel" better. It takes a commitment from both parties to struggle through together.
But, when it is all said and done...our esteem only comes from Jesus Christ - in Him only can we boast anything.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:35:35 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalms274
quote:
Can we discuss this without assuming that people are going to abandon their spouses at the first ounce of weight gain or the first hair cut? And can we discuss it without getting all offended about it?
I think the reason some have gotten up in arms over this is:
knowing that your husband felt this way about weight gain or hair changes, no matter how much I was reassure with his words, I would be living with the knowledge that my husband is disappointed in what has happened to me after being married. If I was a woman who married a man and because of health reasons or metabolism changes or whatever it was, gained weight ... it would be very hard to forget that because of this change I am now a dissapointment. This would do serious damage to self worth.
OK. Here is one good answer on why it is contentious. But isn't it reasonable to assume that your spouse is also reasonable and knows that some changes will happen. Knowing that though, wouldn't you still try to please him?
quote:
It is important for both people involved in the marriage to let go of these types of expectations and simply do what is in their individual power to edify and honor their spouse.
Agreed.
quote:
Another sore point, for me, is using scripture incorrectly to build a point. Anyone can find a single scripture to justify their point ... it needs to be done with the utmost of care.
This has not been a scripturally based discussion. (Scripture was brought up only in post 25 and corrected/clarified by you in post 111.) Other than that no one has used scripture to make a point.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:36:38 AM
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Elena1030
Posts: 479
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
What I was asking is if you knew your husband liked long hair (for example) how hard would you work at being what your husband likes.
John,
I think the trouble some of us gals are having is the fact---as we see it---that you are equating her hair length with being.
I don't see wearing hair or clothes a little differently, trying new styles...as a shift in who she is. Or he is, for that matter...if it's a man trying something new.
Now... if she went from prairie muffin to vampy diva in one fell swoop, that would be disconcerting!
Right now my hair is just past my shoulders. Today I'm wearing it straight. It's pretty soft... dark brown (never had it colored). Thinning a little, but not so much that you can tell. I might wear it wavy/curly (by letting it dry naturally and then adding product), which changes my look slightly.
I've grown it to past the middle of my back... and if it was down, it was usually in that wavy/curly state. If it was straight (brushing it would take out all the curl), I usually wore it up in a ponytail or a claw.
In the summers, I often have it cut to chin length (wearing it either straight or wavy) and then let the process start all over again.
I don't see my hair as making me a different person. Different styles bring out different aspects of my personality...just as a different outfit does. But I am Elena no matter what... Cutting my hair doesn't turn me into, say, Tiffany.
Anyone who gets to know me will see various sides of me. My man will have to be OK with that, or he's not my man. I don't want him getting a static (meaning, unchanging) view of who I am. And I don't want to assume either that he will change to be what I want or that he will stay the same.
John, perhaps the phrasing of your original question is what threw some of us off. To me, when one uses the term being, one is usually addressing primarily internals, not externals.
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:37:24 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
What I'm hearing is the same thing I heard from guys in high school...."if you love me you'll_____________". That's flat-out manipulation and, in this case, using God to back it up.
And since no one has said that, and since no one used God to back it up, perhaps you need to reread the thread again. for what's really there and not for what you're expecting to see.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:41:28 AM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
Does anything I am saying here make sense at all to any of you? Pray about it.
It makes sense to me.
Every response written, mine included, has more to do with the writer and their life experiences then you and yours. Obviously this is a highly emotional issue for many woman. I hope we are all wise enough not to allow words, translated through our own thoughts and experiences, to color our opinion of any one person.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:49:31 AM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9470
Joined: 9/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
What I'm hearing is the same thing I heard from guys in high school...."if you love me you'll_____________". That's flat-out manipulation and, in this case, using God to back it up.
And since no one has said that, and since no one used God to back it up, perhaps you need to reread the thread again. for what's really there and not for what you're expecting to see.
I beg to differ. I've read the thread thoroughly and it's behind every carefully worded post. That's the thing that's causing the reaction. With good reason.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:49:56 AM
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Elena1030
Posts: 479
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quote:
Isn't it reasonable to assume that your spouse is also reasonable and knows that some changes will happen.Knowing that though, wouldn't you still try to please him?
Yes, I would still try to please him... to often wear my hair in ways that he likes it on me...to wear the clothes, makeup, and so forth that make me the most appealing in his eyes.
But not by trying to change who I am, unless I am convicted by the Holy Spirit that I need to change a value, a belief, an opinion, an attitude, a pattern of speech, a habit, a behavior, an action.
I'm already pretty willing to take interest in what a man is interested in...for his sake...and then also if serendiptitiously I find the thing intrinsically interesting. (Of course, there are things that aren't EVER going to be interesting to me...not sure what they are...)
This caveat, though, to what I've just typed: It would be unnerving to me to find out after I married the man that his idea of who I fundamentally am also includes my hair length and hairstyle---because I would feel locked into that look... not forced by him... but I would want to always be the person he fell in love with. (This doesn't include growing to be a more Christlike woman, which I'm sure he wouldn't mind at all!)
If he has these feelings:
* I really enjoy playing with longer hair.
* I think longer hair looks better on her than shorter.
* My favorite look on her is ______.
then I'm cool with that.
But if he feels this way:
* When she styles her hair differently or wears it short, she's an entirely different person to me.
then I don't think he's the man for me.
Or is it how the male brain is wired... that such a slight change in a person (like a different hairstyle, different type of clothes, encountering him or her in a different setting) actually is perceived as a huge change?
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 10:54:20 AM
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NiceGuy
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***Turn out the lights and I'll glow ***
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
OK. Here is one good answer on why it is contentious. But isn't it reasonable to assume that your spouse is also reasonable and knows that some changes will happen. Knowing that though, wouldn't you still try to please him?
The problem I see here that has kept this discussion from progressing, as with the case above, is that you have yet to present your question better. Everyone here is interpreting your question the way Karen, Fritz, and Spunky have already mentioned, but you continue to respond by asking the same question.
"Do you think the sky is blue?"
"Sometimes it's gray."
"That's not what I meant.. do you think the sky is blue?"
"I've seen it purple."
"But.. Don't you think the sky is blue?"
What DO you mean, John? When you keep responding with essentially the same question over and over, only worded a little bit differently, that leads everyone to believe that this is how you truly feel: "If you love me, you'll ______."
NiceGuy 
_____________________________
Look, I brought a Sombrero! Now we can both be "cool"! - Hobbes, of Calvin and Hobbes
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:01:42 AM
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Elena1030
Posts: 479
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NG, exactly.
Which is why I said this: quote:
I think the trouble some of us gals are having is the fact---as we see it---that you {John_O} are equating her hair length with being.
I'm seeing some issues arising that relate to aesthetic theory---that is, the male brain tends to process and interpret visual information a certain way; while the female brain processes and interprets it differently.
Case in point:
I have a male friend who didn't recognize a gal he knows from his church, when he saw her out and about one day. A different setting...a different type of outfit...and she was a stranger to him, till she approached him, said hello, and cleared up his mistake! He says this is part of how his brain works... and several guys chimed into the conversation to say that their brains are similar.
Wow!
So... I'm wondering if that's what John_O is evidencing in his posts...
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:03:31 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Above_All
More of my thoughts...(if you care to know them.  )
I think there is a HUGE difference between wanting to please your spouse vs. expecting them to please you. BIG difference. The desire to please your spouse is one of love and the expectation of them to please you is vain.
Exactly. BTW, thanks for all your posts on this thread. It seems that you and John are started off on the right track all the way around.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:07:09 AM
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joy2give2u
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quote:
I've read the thread thoroughly and it's behind every carefully worded post. CoueurdeLeon it is behind how you read every word. None of us knows what is behind each word written because we can only interrupt words based on our experiences and not on the experiences of the writer.
quote:
Everyone here is interpreting your question the way Karen, Fritz, and Spunky have already mentioned, I am a woman and am not interpreting the question the same way as Karen, Fritz and Spunky. Why? Because my life experiences are different.
If you read the OP's questions based solely as they are written and not based on emotions they are very easy questions to answer.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:07:22 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sj3339sta
quote:
"how hard would you work to be what you spouse wanted you to be"
When I get married, it will be because I love the person I'm with and I want to be with them for the rest of my life. I do not want a fixer up kind of guy and I don't want to be fixed up either.
Does that mean I want someone who has a perfect body and physical appearance? Nope. And why? Because I'm not near perfect either. LOL!
I don't want to "be" the person my husband wants....I want to "be" the person that God wants me to be. Hopefully, that will be enough. If not, I guess I'm doomed to a failed future marriage, or a miserable one at that.
When you get married you ARE the one he wants. That's why he married you. Elena had a good point in that my use of the word being may have thrown a wrench into the discussion.
Thanks for the answers.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:12:22 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gaylel1
It seems like most (not all Christian men and this is not directed to you John or anyone else here) want this "perfect person"-that is a person who is not of normal size, but they want so perfect that they don't take in consideration the charater and the heart of the person (I said it once before, didn't I?).
I understand what you are saying but the original post started from the wedding date, so we already know that he wants her and she wants him. Else they wouldn't get married.
quote:
Threads like these make me feel that even though I am 40-something and trying her best to live a Christian life which should the first attraction anyways, like I don't have anything to offer anyways and not perfect in a "man's eyes." I should not think so, but at times, this is the way I feel.
You have worlds to offer, you're just waiting for the man God has for you. Mr right is infinitely better than Mr right-now.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: How hard would you work at being what your spouse w... - 12/15/2006 11:12:49 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4983
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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I think you are asking two different questions: "How hard would you work to please your mate" isn't the same thing as "How hard would you work at being what your spouse wanted you to be." The former is an act of love, the latter is trying to conform to an image of someone else's ideal.
I do work hard to please my mate. I work out daily, I put on make-up, I dress in ways he likes. I pack his lunch, I try and be sensitive to his needs. I give him backrubs when he's tired. But the idea of "what he wants me to be" is offensive to me and a lot of people, because it has the connontation that what he wants me to be is different than what I am. I can only be myself, and that's the person he fell in love with and married.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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