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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2005 6:36:51 PM
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jgarden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
How quick the Republicans forget - it was Richard Nixon who was also elected for a second term and then returned their trust by commiting crimminal acts. Perhaps Republicans would care to explain why only Nixon received a presidental pardon by an unelected Republican president - placing a president above the law. A twice elected president, particularly Republican ones, are quite capable of thwarting the will of the people.
A Presidential pardon isn't 'above the law'; it's actually a Constitutional power. One which Clinton used numerous times to get his buddies off.
True - Clinton misused his presidential pardon, but at least he was an "elected" president not an appointee. The president is not just any other citizen - he/she accepts a position of trust in addition to becoming the most powerful person in the world. To grant a pardon for crimminal acts including purgery sets a dangerous precident that the nations first citizen is above the law.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/16/2005 8:32:13 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
True - Clinton misused his presidential pardon, but at least he was an "elected" president not an appointee. The president is not just any other citizen - he/she accepts a position of trust in addition to becoming the most powerful person in the world. To grant a pardon for crimminal acts including purgery sets a dangerous precident that the nations first citizen is above the law.
Ford was duly nominated and approved by congress in accordance with the 25th Amendment. There was no reason he couldn't exercise his Presidential perogatives; and it was good he did; Watergate completed it's work with the resignation of Nixon.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/17/2005 11:06:16 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
True - Clinton misused his presidential pardon, but at least he was an "elected" president not an appointee. The president is not just any other citizen - he/she accepts a position of trust in addition to becoming the most powerful person in the world. To grant a pardon for crimminal acts including purgery sets a dangerous precident that the nations first citizen is above the law.
Ford was duly nominated and approved by congress in accordance with the 25th Amendment. There was no reason he couldn't exercise his Presidential perogatives; and it was good he did; Watergate completed it's work with the resignation of Nixon.
The 25th Amendment allows a select group immunity from thre consequences of their actions. With all due respect to Admendments to the Constitution, America's law are meant to apply to all citizens who are supposedly created equal. Once you make exemptions, the rule of law is eroded and America reverts back a society where justice is not blind.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/18/2005 8:49:07 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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quote:
The 25th Amendment allows a select group immunity from thre consequences of their actions. With all due respect to Admendments to the Constitution, America's law are meant to apply to all citizens who are supposedly created equal. Once you make exemptions, the rule of law is eroded and America reverts back a society where justice is not blind.
You might not like the Amendment, but it exists none the less. Governors have similar powers.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 11:29:18 AM
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pthalomarie
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I think it's interesting that people here aren't talking about Cindy Sheehan.
That's probably for the better, given the likelihood that many folks here would go after her like wolves pouncing upon a stray lamb.
But I'd like to focus on something Bush said a few days ago, when asked why he wouldn't meet with her:
"But whether it be here or in Washington or anywhere else, there's somebody who has got something to say to the president, that's part of the job," Bush said on the ranch. "And I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But, I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life."
One can easily argue that Bush has a good point here.
However, his choice of words are so profoundly insensitive, it's hard to imagine that it was simply one of his nonsensical word choices.
The phrase "getting on with your life" is almost always used in the context of overcoming personal grief or loss. Bush has not lost any loved ones. To equate the inconvenience of meeting with Sheehan with her loss is disgusting. At the very least, it shows a profound disinterest in choosing his words carefully enough to show respect for her dead son.
Also, if he's going to argue that meeting ordinary people creates some kind of zen-like imbalance, then why does he find so much time to meet with like-minded citizens?
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 11:34:48 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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I think if I were Bush I would not meet with her either.
It sets a precedent that I would do so with whoever "cried" the loudest.
Next thing I knew everytime something bad happened and people were unhappy with me they'd be blockading my home.
No, I wouldn't meet with her.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 11:58:59 AM
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dmber
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
I think if I were Bush I would not meet with her either.
It sets a precedent that I would do so with whoever "cried" the loudest.
Next thing I knew everytime something bad happened and people were unhappy with me they'd be blockading my home.
No, I wouldn't meet with her.
I agree (but I'm anti-bush, or whatever the right terminology is). I think it would set the wrong kind of precedent. However he's already set a precedent with the number of vacation days he's taken. if he were doing things to keep the gas prices down or really anything productive, then i'd say, "yeah, don't take time out of your busy schedule to meet with her" but he's on vacation. he is a worthless president.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:05:15 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 118
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: U.S.A. Still A Free Society!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
I think it's interesting that people here aren't talking about Cindy Sheehan.
That's probably for the better, given the likelihood that many folks here would go after her like wolves pouncing upon a stray lamb.
But I'd like to focus on something Bush said a few days ago, when asked why he wouldn't meet with her:
"But whether it be here or in Washington or anywhere else, there's somebody who has got something to say to the president, that's part of the job," Bush said on the ranch. "And I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But, I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life."
One can easily argue that Bush has a good point here.
However, his choice of words are so profoundly insensitive, it's hard to imagine that it was simply one of his nonsensical word choices.
The phrase "getting on with your life" is almost always used in the context of overcoming personal grief or loss. Bush has not lost any loved ones. To equate the inconvenience of meeting with Sheehan with her loss is disgusting. At the very least, it shows a profound disinterest in choosing his words carefully enough to show respect for her dead son.
Also, if he's going to argue that meeting ordinary people creates some kind of zen-like imbalance, then why does he find so much time to meet with like-minded citizens?
Good points from you and dmber. I feel Bush has shown a total lack of compassion here, but that does not surprise me as I think all he does is give"lip-service" in ANY situation!
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:07:23 PM
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welvet
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The peacniks need to realize that old vietnam tactics will not work. This is an all volunteer military which by the way, has extremely high reenlistment. There's no draft and no children being "sent" to war.
They tried this nonsense during the election...it failed. And most reasonable people realize that leaving Iraq will only result in terroirist run state that will brutalize the Iraqi people. Then what? Will the peaceniks then go to Iraq to protest for peace?
_____________________________
~It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black~
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:13:45 PM
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Harold
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I'd rather all the pro-war people put their money where their mouths are and enlist and go over there themselves.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:16:41 PM
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welvet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harold
I'd rather all the pro-war people put their money where their mouths are and enlist and go over there themselves.
That's almost as ridiculous as saying that everyone who supports the police force needs to join up or shut up. 
For the record: we are a military family.
_____________________________
~It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black~
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:20:43 PM
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soblessed53
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Did I miss the posts saying we should get out of Iraq? I think many of us hate the fact that we are there and are suspicious of the truth of the reasons that were given to get us there,but what has that to do with Bush turning a cold shoulder to a mother who lost her son over there?
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 12:45:29 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Did I miss the posts saying we should get out of Iraq? I think many of us hate the fact that we are there and are suspicious of the truth of the reasons that were given to get us there,but what has that to do with Bush turning a cold shoulder to a mother who lost her son over there?
He did meet with her; just not after she began her ill-concieved protest.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 1:02:24 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 118
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Did I miss the posts saying we should get out of Iraq? I think many of us hate the fact that we are there and are suspicious of the truth of the reasons that were given to get us there,but what has that to do with Bush turning a cold shoulder to a mother who lost her son over there?
He did meet with her; just not after she began her ill-concieved protest.
And why is it ill-concieved,and what is the harm in meeting with her a second time?
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:03:33 PM
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jgarden
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pthalomarie
I think it's interesting that people here aren't talking about Cindy Sheehan...........
But I'd like to focus on something Bush said a few days ago, when asked why he wouldn't meet with her:
"But whether it be here or in Washington or anywhere else, there's somebody who has got something to say to the president, that's part of the job," Bush said on the ranch. "And I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But, I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life." ................"
Who does Bush find time to meet with?
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:05:08 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
And why is it ill-concieved,and what is the harm in meeting with her a second time?
Because, she is putting on a left-wing media circus; meeting with her would would serve no purpose whatsoever.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:14:38 PM
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soblessed53
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Well, I'm sorry,but I do not believe that was her intentiion. It has resulted in that,I will admit,however. I still feel Bush is appearing very callous and uncaring.
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:16:44 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Also, if he's going to argue that meeting ordinary people creates some kind of zen-like imbalance, then why does he find so much time to meet with like-minded citizens?
Actually, he meets with the parents of soldiers that have been lost on a regular basis. He met with Cindy Sheehan once, and she praised him for it.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:25:03 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6790
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Well, I'm sorry,but I do not believe that was her intentiion. It has resulted in that,I will admit,however. I still feel Bush is appearing very callous and uncaring.
Actually, I heard her basically say in an interview that she hopes he doesn't meet with her, because the publicity is better if he doesn't.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 2:32:39 PM
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Stephanos
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Since this is the "Bush thread" i want to tackle the whole idea of "Bush is always on vacation." First, may i remind you that for the 8 years prior to Bush, we had Clinton who had no place of his own. Prior to president he was gov of Arkansas and lived in the governors home. When he did take a vacation he went to Camp David. But let me go back in history and compair.
Bush 41 took nearly 543 days of vacation at Camp David and his home in Kennebunkport Maine.
Reagan spent 335 days at his ranch at Santa Barbara, California.
How about FDR and Hyde Park? How long did he spend there?
All these complaints about Bush being on "vacation" to much is pure hogwash.
FIRST, i think the President of a country such as America DESERVES a vacation from what he goes through all day. He deserves a chance to get away from Washington.
Second, its not like President Bush does nothing when he is on vacation. He still does EVERYTHING he does in Washington there at Crawford. Shoot, he even brings heads of state to Crawford. Personaly i think many of them would rather visit in rural Texas, rather than going into the city of DC. With modern technology Bush is in instant contact with anyone he needs to, (just like he is in Washington).
So again, what is wrong with Bush spending his time in Crawford?
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 3:07:00 PM
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soblessed53
Posts: 118
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Fritzpw_Admin
Administrator
Posts: 1999
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: East Coast USA
Status: online Have a tid bit about Bush?
Don't hold a favorable view on his policies?
Concerns about his war in Iraq?
This is the thread for you.
All Bush.
All the time.
One Stop to critique the president and his policies.
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Community Manager
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Did not know this was a thread for Bush SUPPORTERS! I thought "critique" meant where non-supporters of Bush could come vent?
< Message edited by soblessed53 -- 8/19/2005 3:44:10 PM >
_____________________________
If the Radical Muslims laid down their weapons there would be peace
If the Jews laid down their weapons they would cease to exist
Casual Christians may become Christian Casualties
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 9:15:15 PM
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jgarden
Posts: 62
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
I think if I were Bush I would not meet with her either.
It sets a precedent that I would do so with whoever "cried" the loudest.
Next thing I knew everytime something bad happened and people were unhappy with me they'd be blockading my home.
No, I wouldn't meet with her.
"The couple's eldest child, Casey, 24, was an Army soldier killed in April 2004. Cindy Sheehan has said the stress of the death led to the separation of the couple, who were high school sweethearts." (www.outsidethebeltway.com)
Perhaps Casey should have been better served if he had emulating the president who performed his patriotic duty by sitting out a previous war with the Alabama National Guard. Unfortunately the death of one's son or daughter creates a "bad attitude" by the parents directed towards the Administration.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 9:39:05 PM
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shouldknowbetter
Posts: 364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jgarden
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
I think if I were Bush I would not meet with her either.
It sets a precedent that I would do so with whoever "cried" the loudest.
Next thing I knew everytime something bad happened and people were unhappy with me they'd be blockading my home.
No, I wouldn't meet with her.
"The couple's eldest child, Casey, 24, was an Army soldier killed in April 2004. Cindy Sheehan has said the stress of the death led to the separation of the couple, who were high school sweethearts." (www.outsidethebeltway.com)
Perhaps Casey should have been better served if he had emulating the president who performed his patriotic duty by sitting out a previous war with the Alabama National Guard. Unfortunately the death of one's son or daughter creates a "bad attitude" by the parents directed towards the Administration.
She already had one meeting with Him prior.... SO why the big deal about a second meeting that you have to walk away from the rest of your family and put on a media show?
I feel sorry for her but think she's off base.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 10:10:35 PM
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jgarden
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If Sheehan was about to contribute $1 000 000 to the Bush re-election campaign, the president would be making house visits. Unfortunately, the death of a young soldier does carry the same weight when it comes to politics.
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RE: All Bush - The Critque - One Stop Thread - 8/19/2005 10:37:08 PM
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welvet
Posts: 19
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quote:
Did I miss the posts saying we should get out of Iraq?
If memory serves we were discussing Cindy Sheehan. She did call for the immediate withdrawl of troops.
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~It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black~
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