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RE: Boostin' Points - 4/20/2005 1:11:38 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2340
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
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Hoss...
Warn them that if they don't work out their salvation with fear and trembling, they will be blotted out of the book of life.
Or, you could suggest to them that if their claim to salvation is true, they should be working out their salvation with fear and trembling because He who began a good work in them is faithful to complete it for the day of Christ Jesus.
I have a theory Hoss... in all seriousness... the 10 to 20% of people at your (and my) church that REALLY ARE BELIEVERS, already are in ministry.
At my previous church, about 70 people attended on a given sunday, and there were maybe 14 people who were working out their salvation.
At my current church, about 50 people attend regularly, and I can count on both hands how many people are more than warm bodies in ministry.
At WillowCreek Community church in Chicago, they have God knows how many thousands on the roles-- but I'm going to use 7000, because that is the size of their main auditorium... and strangely, they have something like a couple hundred gung ho ministry leaders.
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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calvin me wonderful - 4/20/2005 1:49:32 PM
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bebecakes
Posts: 2
Joined: 4/15/2005
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Hi Everyone.
I'm trying to get into the new forum, but find I miss the old haunt. But at any rate, here's to progress. Upwards and onwards...
and Euty... I was wondering,
In our past life you quoted me an excellent web site where I could plunge into Calvinist theology. I didn't save the link (doh!) Do you by any chance remember it?
mucho thanks, bebe.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 4/21/2005 7:46:10 PM
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Augustine_Was_Calvinist
Posts: 14
Joined: 4/17/2005
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All this time I thought I was the only five-point Calvinist and PCA member in Crosswalk. It's a good thing I thought wrong in this case.
It's good to see another PCA 5 Pointer. I've been posting here, off and on for a couple of years, mostly off the past year. When I first began posting here I thought I was the only 5 Pointer here too, and didn't really see any. Back then there were a lot of Mormons and Word of Faith pentecostal types. But maybe that's because I spent most of my time in the "Unorthodox Doctrine" section, which I see in this new format is now gone.
Good to see you here.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 4/21/2005 7:47:58 PM
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Augustine_Was_Calvinist
Posts: 14
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Hello Harvie, welcome, and may your stay be long and profitable.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 4/21/2005 7:58:43 PM
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Augustine_Was_Calvinist
Posts: 14
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Is now a good time to admit that I am more "reforming" than "reformed?" But I am willing to inch my way towards being a 5-pointer if given time.
Harvie, dear sister in Christ, coming to the Reformed persective isn't really about being "willing", it's about taking God's Word for what it means.
Even though I basically grew up in an old, conservative, 5 Point Southern Presbyterian church, I rebelled from the ages of 14 to 42. In the church I grew up in I didn't agree with some of the 5 Points, but that was because I was interjecting my own philosophy and not mining God's Word for what it's worth.
At 42, and a literal mess, I repented and cried out to God for mercy. Little did I know that I had been regenerated before I cried out. In the early days of my "conversion", I attended non-denominational, dispensational, Libertarian Free Will types churchs, but the more I studied God's Word, the more I discovered what the early fathers and the Reformers had been teaching all along, was in fact true. And, I thank God for granting me the Grace and enlightenment and opening my eyes to the errors in those systems, and submitting to and glorifying His Marvelous Sovereignty and Grace.
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RE: calvin me wonderful - 4/22/2005 12:36:50 AM
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Harvie
Posts: 1686
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: california
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It is Thursday night and I am wandering around the Internet, pondering. (Hmmm...wandering and pondering, I am pensive and rhyming!) My ponderings (in no particular order)....
What, exactly, does it mean to "work out" one's salvation with fear and trembling -- as was mentioned in a post up there somewhere. And, as I suspect, is that a life-long process as opposed to a -- POOF -- instantaneous thing.
What is the practical difference of being a "hot" christian v. a lukewarm (and therefore Spit-out-able) Christian? Is it a matter of belief, or a matter of conduct?
Also, at the risk of seeming dim-witted, can someone please explain (in short sentences using words of less than 5 syllables) exactly what are Sanctification and Justification and how the two differ? I tried to look it up on another website and now my head hurts. I am just seeking a simple, layman's version, not a thesis on the topic.
I understand that these musings of mine would likely be better suited on some other theology thread, but I am new here and just can't seem to figure out what goes where. Besides, they are positively GROUCHY on some of those other forums and y'all seem like a nice sort. Besides, you graciously gave me a zillion points and I am now a "Super Member" -- for what that is worth.
Well, I am off to take a dip in the hot tub and then perchance I will wander around some more. Or maybe I will just ponder some more. I decadently decided to take tomorrow (Friday) off work as a vacation day, so I get to sleep in and ponder the world from the coziness of a warm bed (kitty-filled, to be sure) My poor husband has to get up early to have a photo taken for a Visa, but promised to be home by 10am. Heh heh heh ... I might be up by then.
[img]http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/cow12.gif[/img]
_____________________________
 PLEASE PRAY FOR MY MILITARY PILOT HUSBAND
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RE: calvin me wonderful - 4/22/2005 5:30:15 AM
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EddieL
Posts: 522
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Rustburg, Virginia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
What is the practical difference of being a "hot" christian v. a lukewarm (and therefore Spit-out-able) Christian? Is it a matter of belief, or a matter of conduct?
True belief always leads to better conduct. You can't trust or love Christ without obeying Him. One always follows the other.
quote:
Also, at the risk of seeming dim-witted, can someone please explain (in short sentences using words of less than 5 syllables) exactly what are Sanctification and Justification and how the two differ? I tried to look it up on another website and now my head hurts. I am just seeking a simple, layman's version, not a thesis on the topic.
There is a book called The Cross-Centered Life by C. J. Mahoney that you really need to read. It addresses justification and sanctification without blowing smoke out of your ears.
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RE: calvin me wonderful - 4/22/2005 1:00:10 PM
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Augustine_Was_Calvinist
Posts: 14
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
What, exactly, does it mean to "work out" one's salvation with fear and trembling -- as was mentioned in a post up there somewhere. And, as I suspect, is that a life-long process as opposed to a -- POOF -- instantaneous thing.
Paul uses the analogy of an athelete "working out" for how we are to put our salvation to work as a reponse to the initial work of regeneration and the on-going work of the Holy Spirit Whom is transforming us into the image of Christ. We "work it out" like you would go to a gym and "work out", meaning we exercise our faith in a solid manner, one with substance and is so obviously different from the world, that pagans look at us and say, "they are not like the rest of the world".
There is a quote from a a letter from a 2nd century Christian to his/her friend, Diognetus that I am reminded of when thinking of "working out our salavtion with fear and trembling".
Diognetus, was carefully investigating Christianity. The letter shows how the church had to explain itself as a new movement to a suspicious and often hostile pagan world. The Church, although an insignificantly small percentage of the population, saw itself as a soul-like instrument of God to bring healing and hope to the world.
The letter gives us an invaluable description of the early believers in the second century:
"They dwell in their own countries but simply as sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers. They marry, as do others; they beget children; but they do not destroy their offspring. They have a common table but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. They pass their days on earth, but are citizens of heaven. They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws in their lives. They love all, and are persecuted by all... They are poor, yet they make many rich; they are completely destitute, and yet they enjoy complete abundance. . . They are reviled, and yet they bless...When they do good they are punished as evildoers; undergoing punishment, they rejoice because they are brought to life."
Personally, I am greatly humbled by those words.
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RE: calvin me wonderful - 4/22/2005 7:04:20 PM
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Augustine_Was_Calvinist
Posts: 14
Joined: 4/17/2005
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Hi Harvie,
Hope you got plenty of rest.
"What is the practical difference of being a "hot" christian v. a lukewarm (and therefore Spit-out-able) Christian? Is it a matter of belief, or a matter of conduct?"
The practical difference between the "hot" Christian, verses the "lukewarm", is a matter of desire to know Christ. The more we know Christ, the more we understand what Christ has done for us. the more we understand what Christ has done for us, The more humbled we are. the more humbled we are in Christ, the more we submit in love. The more we submit in love, the more we witness of Him. The more we witness of Him, and all of the above, the more fruit we bear, which is what we are to do as granted branches into the Vine of Christ.
Have you ever loved someone so much, that you would do most anything for them?
Is that a "hot" love, or "lukewarm" love?
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RE: calvin me wonderful - 4/22/2005 11:16:15 PM
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Harvie
Posts: 1686
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: california
Status: offline
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Wow. Thank you for all the thoughtful posts. I took today off work as a vacation day and had a delightful time running errands and chatting about theology with my husband. At first I was worried that I was boring him, but he cheerfully noted that "at least I wasn't discussing shoes all day!"
EddieL ... I will look for that Mahoney book; thank you for the recommendation. I am an avid reader (chomp chomp chomp) and will see if I can order it used from Amazon...my favorite source. I just received Your Money Matters by Howard Dayton and Investing for the Future by Larry Burkett -- so it will be nice to have another book lined up when I get through these. My husband gets deployed in a few weeks and I will have much more reading time then.
August... (may I call you that?)... I see your point about "hot" love v. lukewarm love. Yes, I feel that way about my husband. And, most days, I feel that way about the Lord. I certainly endeavor to seek after Christ with all of my heart, mind, soul and strength. And, as a couple (and under my husband's spiritual leadership) we are striving to live godly, Christ-honoring, Spirit-led lives.
Euty.... I liked your comments about "Poofing" -- that is pretty much what I had concluded, as well. And anyone who agrees with me must certainly be brilliant!! (grin)
Theo Junkie ... you win the brevity award, kudos to you. Thanks for your post.
I am off to read about the exciting and wonderful world of personal finance from a biblical perspective. (Hmmm... has the Lord already predestined me to be adequately-funded for retirement?) I turned 40 this year and resolved to get serious about money and retirement this year. (I had previously been serious about money and shopping.)
By the way, I learned today that "Calvin" from Calvin and Hobbes was, indeed, named for "the" Calvin. A little reformation trivia for you all. A good Friday evening, fellow travelers.
God Bless.
[img]http://www.anchoredbygrace.com/smileys/mgpropeller.gif[/img]
_____________________________
PLEASE PRAY FOR MY MILITARY PILOT HUSBAND
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