Are you sure? (Full Version)

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Jeffreyelijah -> Are you sure? (5/7/2007 10:48:26 AM)

Matthew 7 23 read the entire text...]
quote:

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

Matthew 25 41
quote:

""Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
Are you sure that you are saved? (or His)



BlessedbyGod -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 11:02:23 AM)

I know His voice ,but I still must be about working out my own salvation with fear and trembling .
I try to encourage His people instead of causing them to question themselves. Praise His name for He is good. Amen



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 11:52:13 AM)

Yes, I'm sure. I stand on the promise of my Lord and Saviour.

BlessedbyGod - well said



breeziedreamz -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 12:11:31 PM)

The steps to Salvation are clear. Adherence and acceptance of the little that is required of us makes assurance easy. Christ made it simple enough that even little children could understand and feel assured in their Salvation. And so, I am certain of this above anything else.

I don't understand what the point of the question is? What is your purpose for asking it?



rcjames -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 1:37:42 PM)

Jeffreyelijah,

I think a look at the first Scripture you posted in context would be helpful.

(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

These folks that were refused entry into Heaven were folks that fully thought they were saved and doing the right things; casting out devils, doing many wonderful works, prophesying in Christ name; yet they were not "Saved" (Christ says He did not know them).

Why were they not "Saved" or Christ did not know them; because the worked iniquity.

Iniquity is defined as;

anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.

Or a simple person such as I would say those who continue in sin.

Oh my Gosh, does that mean that those who continue in sin after they are (or feel) they are saved are not going to Heaven?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Maybe that is why the Word of God directs us to;

(Phi 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

and

(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God tells us that IF we are saved then;

(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

That we are to be;

(Eph 5:27) That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

And that Believers can accomplish all this by the unerring unfailing promise of God;

(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

If those who call themselves Christians are not living (by thier fruits, you shall know them) the life we are called to live as Believers; then it looks like those folks are in a heap of trouble.

Thanks
RC



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 1:46:14 PM)

I tend to be a worrier, and those verses scare me. Because.. what if? its worse if you spent all your life thinking you are ok, doing what you know to do, and then woopsie. that would be scared. I mean, if Im going to hell, may as well be for something really bad, but if im trying to live a good life for the Lord, and then end up in hell, neither had any fun on the earth, neither will have any in heaven,, what a bad place to be in. I sometimes worry if I missed the mark somewhere inadvertently by accident.

But on the other hand, since I know how terrible it would be to face Jesus as judge, then I can do something about it so that I can be sure.

I just worry too much. there is always a 'what if". Im probably ok, but will go into heaven with a bit of worry trailing me. Still,, the worry part takes over too much. Im not sure of anything at times, maybe I just am too critical of myself. I dont know. I know i worry about things, esepcially today since this sunday is going to be very depressing for me. and already im having a bad day and I am in a real bad sad mood.



kmangel -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 2:27:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

I just worry too much. there is always a 'what if". Im probably ok



My brother once said he hopes Jesus doesn't spit him out of his mouth. I have never felt this way since coming to faith because I am counting on what Jesus did to save me. It's not about me. One of my favorite verses in the Bible is Mt 25:21 "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'" I want to share in Jesus' happiness! So that's what I'm counting on--being with my friend Jesus. What a glorious day that will be! And He'll be happy I'm there, too!



rcjames -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 2:46:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

I tend to be a worrier, and those verses scare me. Because.. what if? its worse if you spent all your life thinking you are ok, doing what you know to do, and then woopsie. that would be scared. I mean, if Im going to hell, may as well be for something really bad, but if im trying to live a good life for the Lord, and then end up in hell, neither had any fun on the earth, neither will have any in heaven,, what a bad place to be in. I sometimes worry if I missed the mark somewhere inadvertently by accident.

But on the other hand, since I know how terrible it would be to face Jesus as judge, then I can do something about it so that I can be sure.

I just worry too much. there is always a 'what if". Im probably ok, but will go into heaven with a bit of worry trailing me. Still,, the worry part takes over too much. Im not sure of anything at times, maybe I just am too critical of myself. I dont know. I know i worry about things, esepcially today since this sunday is going to be very depressing for me. and already im having a bad day and I am in a real bad sad mood.


I do not think those veses and many others that speak to our "Fruits" ( out living, our sin) are intended to scare us, but to show us the importance of living a Sactified (a life set aside to serve God) life.

In my opinion Christ died for the forgives of Past sins and the forgiveness of any sin in the future IF we sin as expressed in;

(1Jo 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

That is if we sin, not when we sin. The Scripture also tell us to examine ourselves as to whether we be in the faith or not. All who think they are or not; check the fruits.

Botton line; Christ died to forgive us of sin, not to permit us to continue in sin at no consequence, no matter how much Grace God has for us;

(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

God forbid that we who are dead to sin (Christians) should live any longer in sin.

I think God is saying to stop it with the excuses for disobedience and to cling to His promeise of;

(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I implore all that I meet (in person, on the net, or through other media) please do not use God grace to do what God forbids (sin). That formula will only bring about;

(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And how sad will that be?


Thanks
RC



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 3:36:41 PM)

well. compared to last year at this time and this year, I hope that OSAS is for real. I aint doin too well.. actually im doing very lousy at all this. i dont know what to do. I've just lost my way.. im just nothing right now, goiing nowhere, doing no good.. i cant even make it to church, little by little everything has been carved away like a tiny drop of rain slowly whittling away and finally a big hole appears. i was doing better when I was at the Apostolic Jesus only church. now i just cant seem to get back. i suppose if i keep this up i will end up not making it to heaven. i think God might be waiting there for me taking me back agian, but my get up and go just got up and went. Little by little i see everything sloowwwly trickling away.



unworthyseraphim -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 3:47:42 PM)

Been there...not a good place. You know where I found my answers so I won't bore you with that.

But I am reminded of a story that I've told before. There was the old Abba, a deeply holy old monk and leader of a small monestery who was nearing the end of his life. His disciples and fellow monks gathered round him and asked "what will you say when the Lord asks if you should go to Heaven or to Hell?" The old Abba replied, "I shall say, whereever Thy love places me, O Lord, whereever Thy love places me."

We should not forget who is our judge who said that with the merciful God will show himself merciful. If I may offer a suggestion: Go then and have mercy on your brethren for Christ's sake and in the interim pray, "Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner."...and leave it there.

You will come before Him. You will be Judged. He who gave Himself for us is our Judge. Set your heart to accept "wheresoever Thy love places me" then do the good that is in your hand to do.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 4:04:21 PM)

Father, I just lift up IMA_CHRISTIAN to You. Father You know all about this. I just ask for Your protection of IMA_CHRISTIAN. Bind Satan in her life, and wipe away any doubt. Wrap Your loving arms around her, and help her to feel Your closeness, Your deep love for her. Thank You Father. We ask this in Jesus name. Amen

IMA_CHRISTIAN, it sure seems to me that there is a lot of us under attack. As you know a lot have posted about not feeling God close any more, about having doubt that God is even real.
Pray, pray, pray. Stay in His word. Spend all the time you can with Him. Spend time with other loving christians. Praise Him.
He said I will never leave you. Stand on that promise, even if your not "feeling" it.
He loves you so very, very much. And He cares that Your hurting. Take it to Him.



frankman -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 5:11:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffreyelijah

Matthew 7 23 read the entire text...]
quote:

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

Matthew 25 41
quote:

""Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
Are you sure that you are saved? (or His)


Ima_Christian, you don`t have to worry. You can be sure. [sm=icon_smile_question.gif] How? Belief your Bible?

I like "rcjames" approach in interpreting Matt.7:20-23 in context. Let me just back you up all the way back to Matt.7:15. "Watch out for false prophets." Who are these false prophets Matt.7:20-23 is referring to? The Pharisees, who rejected Jesus teaching, and other false religious teachers who were using the name of Jesus, but were not following His teachings by believing in Jesus as their Massiah, Savior and Lord. These false teachers are obviously the bad fruit of this chapter. These are the ones Jesus will cast out into eternal hell.

As for the rest of us, Jesus tells us in John 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John tells us from 1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." Jesus goes on to say in John 10:28+29. I`ll allow this passage to speak for itself. "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father`s hand."

[sm=icon_smile_question.gif] So the question is not can we be sure, but do we believe the Bible when it tells us that if we believe what Jesus has done for us on the cross, we can be sure? If our answer is YES; we can be sure, this faith in the pomises of Jesus will result in a life changing experience that will lead us to more holy and Godly living.



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 5:17:48 PM)

I'm sure about Jesus - He is the same, but I am not sure about me. maybe im looking at my faults and weaknesses, but it does disturb me. that parable of the sower and the seeds fits exactly. my story right now is the seed that falls in the rocky ground, and the other seed that fell among thorns -for both seeds - the soil is rocky and the Word grows up around rocky soil and dcoesnt have much depth and the Word is choked. and hte other one where the cares of the world come and choke out the word, and when trials come it doesn't have much root and so it withers when the sun comes out. thats me. and im not happy about it.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 5:50:08 PM)

IMA_CHRISTIAN - You don't have to good enough. None of us are. Not as long as we're in these bodys. Thats what Paul was saying. Jesus paid the price for us and He accepts us right where we are.

I've been there to, fearful, trying to figure out what seed I was. If you were of that seed you wouldn't even be worrying about it. But you are!
I've found when I put God on the shelf (so to speak) and get busy with things in this world, it isn't long till Jesus feels far away. And doubt can set in. But He's always been right there with open arms waiting for me to turn back to Him.

You see it's not about how good you are. It's about how good HE is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: frankman

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father`s hand."


Stand on that promise! No one can take you out of His hand!

Satan will attact and try to make us doubt anyway he can. Don't let him.
Keep your eyes on Jesus, and trust in Him.



frankman -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 5:54:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN

I'm sure about Jesus - He is the same, but I am not sure about me. maybe im looking at my faults and weaknesses, but it does disturb me. that parable of the sower and the seeds fits exactly. my story right now is the seed that falls in the rocky ground, and the other seed that fell among thorns -for both seeds - the soil is rocky and the Word grows up around rocky soil and dcoesnt have much depth and the Word is choked. and hte other one where the cares of the world come and choke out the word, and when trials come it doesn't have much root and so it withers when the sun comes out. thats me. and im not happy about it.


There`s this verse in Matt.5:3. I`ll quote it from the E.D.V. "Those people who know they have great spiritual needs are happy. The kingdom of heaven belongs to them."

[:)] You should be encouraged and happy because your humble spirit is an assurance that your`s is the kingdom of God.



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 6:19:27 PM)

quote:

I've found when I put God on the shelf (so to speak) and get busy with things in this world, it isn't long till Jesus feels far away. And doubt can set in. But He's always been right there with open arms waiting for me to turn back to Him.


How do you know Jesus will be there? You know how the Bible says about God not hearing the sinner, and in the Old Testament, where it says the "spirit of the Lord left whats his name (there was a sermon on TV about someone, maybe it was King Saul?).. and "the face of the Lord is against those who do evil".. ok im not doing evil but just losing my fellowship, little by little, not on purpose, it just is seeping away coz of my situation here. Im just trusting that God is listening to me anyway. but those verses scare me. what if the Holy Spirit just leaves and never returns.. what if someone gets a reprobate mind... you see its too scarey to imagine!!!!! i hope God is there. i have doubts so much that maybe He will decide one day to leave me and no matter how much I call out, too late. thats my worry!!!!!!!!!!!!! its bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



coltdigga -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 7:09:22 PM)

i love all of your guys' comments.. and i go by a verse that says
quote:

Ephesians 2: 7-9

7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.


and even this verse
quote:

Ephesians 2:4-6
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,


I go by Faith, but it is a very very scary thought. because there is and always will be that "What if?" that pops up in our mind.
i also agree with everyone else



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 7:28:55 PM)

How do I know Jesus will always be there? Because He said He would.

quote:

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.


Yes the Bible talks about God not hearig the sinner, but when You acceped Jesus, He paid the price for your sin (and mine). So when God looks at us He doesn't see a sinner, He sees a beloved child clothed in the righteousness of Jesus.
He heals you and He will not forsake you.

I don't know your situation, but seek Him as much as You can. If you feel you have known sin turn from it. Reminber the prayer, I believe, help my unbelief?

Those verses can be scarey! Very scarey! But stand on God's promises. Those verses aren't for you.

Satan loves to mess with us. He can't have your soul, but if he can make you doubt, he can keep you from being of use to the Lord. Don't let him!



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 7:51:44 PM)

quote:

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


Cling to Him, and I think at the other end of this tunnel, you will come out stronger and closer to the Lord than ever.

quote:

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


quote:

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.



kmangel -> RE: Are you sure? (5/7/2007 8:40:46 PM)

Ima,

I am an 11 year old Christian. When I was first saved, God seemed to be showing Himself to me right and left. I have many stories to tell. I believe He was revealing Himself to me in more fanciful ways because I was a baby Christian and needed Him to. But now He doesn't do that anymore. Yet I see God in every day that I live. It doesn't take much for me to stop and say "Thank You so much!" and to recognize He is at work in my life. And it doesn't have to be anything big. In fact, small things are the most powerful for me.

It was three summers ago that God spoke one on one to me after a visit to my brother and his wife. I was questioning God about some things and He spoke to me in my spirit. And I was thrilled. It's not that I had stopped believing in Him or what my place in His heart was, but I just was not experiencing God as I had when I was a new believer. That word from God really lifted me up. Has He spoken to me since then? Not in that way, no. As we mature in the faith He expects us to mature in the faith! But someday, perhaps He'll speak directly to me again, maybe not. But I will with His help continue in my faith regardless.

Ask God to show you where He is working in your life and then praise Him for it. He's at work. Commit today to recognize where He is working and praise Him.



BlessedbyGod -> RE: Are you sure? (5/8/2007 2:22:27 AM)

Dear IMA_CHRISTIAN
I always get great comfort from Romans8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long;We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us . For I am persuaded that neither death nor life,nor angels nor principalities nor powers,nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth,nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/8/2007 8:44:12 AM)

thank you all.. i hope i haven't hijacked this thread all about me, but i tell you yesterday was pure torture! i dont care, i have like a million posts on here and i culd be worried about what you all think , but i dont care!! i mean i do care, but when im this troubled I just reach out to you all. thank you for not being unkind.

a couple of people up there gave a couple of posts that got me thinking - maybe all this (it could be the devil taunting me as thats his job) but it could be maybe you know like in the Bible where poeple realized they are wretched and totally lost (calvinists call it depraved) and they know they dont have any righteousness, maybe thats a bit of what i was feeling - a true look at myself and seeing what a wretch i am. (just like in Amazing Grace). so maybe its a kind of epiphany of sorts.

does that make sense?

it does say in the Beatitudes (sermon on the mount?) those who are poor in spirit shall be comforted, etc.. well maybe thats what i was feeling ,, so it is not a bad thing, it just keeps a person grounded and humble and know there need for the Lord. since i felt i was such a wretch that realization would pull me back to God, like "hello, you are wretched on your own, you need to come back closer to the Lord"

You think that could be part of it? so maybe its a good thing in a way? even though it makes you feel crummy.



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/8/2007 9:54:27 AM)

Don't feel bad about your posts or what anyone thinks. We're here to lift each other up. And we ALL need that sometimes. [&:]

I think any trial of our faith is pure torture.
The Lord does use it to draw us closer. As you said we do need Him, (there's no good in us except that it comes from Him)! I think you'll come out of it stronger for the Lord than ever.

A seed of doubt can grow! Now if I start to get one of those "what if's", I won't even allow myself to finish the thought. I say NO, and turn my thoughts to His promises, and it goes away.

I like BlessedbyGod's scripture.

quote:

ORiGINAL: BlessedbyGod

I always get great comfort from Romans8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long;We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us . For I am persuaded that neither death nor life,nor angels nor principalities nor powers,nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth,nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Stand on it. God is faithful.



IMA_CHRISTIAN -> RE: Are you sure? (5/8/2007 12:23:12 PM)

you mean to say that all this is a trial?

if so, i sure didn't think about that.

Unless its that other thing - discipline!! either is torture!

trials are usually there to weed out junk, purify one's soul, get stronger, etc.

this is a trial????


oh man!!!!! well that thought makes me feel bettet! that im not such a chirstian loser which i was feeling like.

thank ya!



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Are you sure? (5/8/2007 12:33:14 PM)

God bless ya, IMA_CHRISTIAN.

[sm=chick.gif][sm=chick.gif][sm=chick.gif]Hugs coming your way[sm=chick.gif][sm=chick.gif][sm=chick.gif]



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