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The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/16/2007 7:19:35 AM
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ABCSOFANARCHISM
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The Religious Tolerance website shows 77% of Americans classify themselves as Christian Making them the most influential religious group in the country. Christianity is normally looked at as being divided into three groups the main stream, the right wing and the left wing.
And by simply turning on the television it becomes clear the voice of Christianity, that the nation hears most, is the Right Wing. Over the years their influence can be observed all over the political and social landscape in America; influencing policies on the AIDS, homosexuality, music, abortion and countless other issues. This is a shame when this group of Christians has lost sight of the original teachings of Jesus Christ but instead has chosen an ideology that spreads intolerance, bigotry and judgment instead of love and compassion for your fellow man. To the left of the mainstream is the Christian Anarchist; a much smaller group most people have never heard of. The teachings of the Christian Anarchist are closer to what Jesus intended than those of the Christian right wing organizations, as they preach a religion based off of love and not judgment or condemnation.
Now, the use of the word anarchist to describe part of the Christian faith may seem odd, perplexing, and quite possible an oxymoron, as not many would associate the anarchist with his face wrapped in a bandanna hurling Molotov Cocktails or rocks at police with a religious sect and that is not the ideology behind the use of the term Christian Anarchist. The idea behind the combination of these two words is that the supreme leader of Christians should be God and not man made institutions, which do not follow the teachings of Christ in the least and seem to do more harm for mankind than good. The Christian Anarchist is only an anarchist in the sense that they pledge all loyalties to God not the state believing the state is a non-Christian institution which we should have no part in condoning. They do not favor every Christian becoming an anarchist nor do they think all anarchists should be Christians. They do not hold to the belief like most traditional anarchist that a utopian society where no governments exist is truly possible and that anyone should be attempting to do away with the government, but simply that the teachings of Christ are far from the teachings of the state. The Christian Anarchist does not believe in using the state to pass laws on morality. However, they do teach a form of Christianity that is based on loving all people regardless of the place they find themselves, which they draw from the scriptures. They believe that the world is full of sinners and that we are all sinners and at one time we were all non-believers in the faith. They believe we are to turn the other cheek, love our enemies and our neighbors regardless of who they might be. The teachings of the bible show us how to live like Christ, thus the term Christian. The Christian Anarchist disagrees entirely with the right wings attempt to use the state as the voice of God. They believe Christians through love not hate and compassion not bigotry, can be way more effective in spreading the gospel to the world.
The right wing Christian movement in America has continuously spread a doctrine which falls some distance from the original teachings of Christ damaging the faith of non-believers and believers alike. They spread a religion of intolerance towards people outside the faith who choose to live a life not inline with their beliefs. This is not what Christ taught in the scripture. You will find teachings of just the opposite. Matthew, chapter 7, verse 1 says “Do not judge, or you will be judged.”, Luke, chapter 6, verse 37 says “do not judge and you will not be judged” and “do not condemn and you will not be condemned” , James, chapter 4, verse 12 ask the question “ who are we to judge our neighbors?”, Luke goes on to say that we should not condemn and we should forgive. In the Sermon on the Mount, Christ teaches us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. Yet none of these things seem to be what the Right Wing branch of Christianity is preaching.
The Right Wing has chosen to make enemies of those whose lives fall outside of their teachings rather then believe the scripture which states we are suppose to love them. When the late Jerry Falwell, the most famous leader of the Ring Wing Christian movement, makes statements indicating that God would punish America with a tragedy like 9/11 because of homosexuality, the women’s liberation movement, and other sins we may have committed and then condemn TV shows such as the Teletubbies because he decided it corrupted America’s Youth it should been seen clearly the lacking of understanding what Christ ideas of Christianity were. Falwell’s influence can all over America from the starting of the modern Christian fundamentalist movement in the late 70’s to fighting Americans whom he saw as the cause of the withdrawing of Gods protection from the United States. His influence helped spread a message of intolerance from the pulpits of Conservative Right Wing Christian preachers across the country helping fuel an ongoing struggle between Christians and non-Christians.
Starting in the 1980’s the Christian Right tried to convince people that AIDS was a religious issue, where God was showing us how corrupt we are as a society. The study, done by Johnson, shows that Christian, right wing fundamentalism was one of the leading reasons people showed intolerance towards AIDS victims. This intolerance feeds over into a very negative view of homosexuals and a lack of compassion for people suffering from the AIDS virus.
Although, I would agree we are a corrupt and a non-Christian society I would find it hard to believe that God wants Christians to refrain from compassion and do everything possible to try and stop the spread of a disease that has become one of the leading causes of death around the globe. Especially since Jesus spent much of his time healing people who were suffering from some form of illness or handicap. Christ never condemned people; his teachings were about love and compassion and he fought vigorously against the people in the Church whom he saw as being judgmental and pious and not acting out of love. The idea that Jesus would teach a message of love through intolerance and force is one that completely contradicts everything we read in the New Testament, from Christ’s dealings with the tax collectors and the prostitutes, to the Sermon on the Mount, and even the words spoken to the thief being executed along side Jesus.
The Christian Rights attempt to control morality through laws and politics, by putting the gay marriage and the issue of abortion at the forefront of American politics which is something the Bible would not condone, as Christianity is something that is personal and is a change of peoples’ heart not the changing of laws governing people. Once again the Bible clearly says we are not to judge those outside the church and no pastor can find versus indicating Christianity is suppose to be a religion based on moral laws the right wing is able to get the state to pass.
The teachings of Jesus do not include this ideology. The Jesus of the Bible teaches we are to love everyone as we love ourselves and never speaks of changing laws in order to make people behave a certain way. Never once in the ministry of Christ or the years following before Christendom do we see any Christians trying to pass laws in order to get people, outside of the church to behave in a certain way. Not one single incidence
The encounters Jesus had with people whom he would have seen as sinners or “non-Christians”, (a term not yet used to describe anyone in Jesus’ day), shows he was not the least bit judgmental or condemning. This example can be clearly seen when Jesus comes upon the Pharisees about to stone a lady for the sin of adultery and he says “if any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her”. This act clearly shows that the right wing group at the time of Christ was wrong in their condemnation of the sinner and by his example we can see our obligation is to offer hope and a different way of life.
The teachings of Christ and his apostles never say Christians should try and force the world to live by Christian standards if anything they teach just the opposite; In 1ST Corinthians Paul says “what business is of mine to judge those outside the church?” clearly indicating that this is not the role of Christians. Yet, the Right Wing Christian sect seems determined to judge “non-believers” and “throw stones”. You only have to turn on the television and wait and you will see the anti-abortion right wing groups trying to overturn ROE vs. WADE decision, the continuous ongoing fight against gay unions or the battle over what should be morally acceptable to the American people. You can see right wing leader such as Pat Robertson, who once claimed that Ariel Sharon’s stroke was punishment from God for giving away Israeli land and countless others spreading intolerance through bigoted speech.
Now, true no Christian group should condone behavior which is clearly non-Christian but they also should not spread hate by condemning members of a society which do not fall within the teachings of Christ. The letters of the New Testament written by Luke, Paul, James, and John etc. are letters written to fellow Christians telling them how to live and separate themselves from the main stream non-Christian world they lived in and are clear about reconfirming Christ’s teaching that the greatest commandments are to love God and our neighbor. As Christians we are taught to consider the bible as the infallible word of God and when these teachings stray so far from the actual intended words we as Christians should take notice of a false teaching in our midst.
The Christian Anarchist movement which stems from beliefs that the Sermon on the Mount is the way in which Christians should conduct themselves in this less-than-perfect world and that we, as Christians, are suppose to be the example of the way God intended us to live and the primary example of this is Christ. The Christian Anarchist would never dream of using a corrupt system, such as the state, to dictate and force Christianity on people. I would challenge anyone to find where Christ ever taught his followers to scream, protest and ridicule anyone for any reason; keep in mind all the followers of Christ were once the same sinners of the world, which the right wing seems to have no tolerance for, before being baptized into the faith. Simply look at Mary Magdalene, the one time prostitute, who became a follower of Christ; now try and imagine if Christ had taken the stance of the Right Wing evangelist in America and condemned her.
In the book of Matthew Jesus talks about the that we should not worry about the sins of others when we are ourselves are sinners and that only after we have corrected all of our sins should we then go trying to fix the sins of others and far to often we see leaders of the religious right abandon this theology.
The Christian Anarchist voice of love and non-judgment is clearly the closer of the two ideologies to what Christ had intended when some 2,000 years ago he began preaching in what is today modern Israel and Palestine. The Right Wing teachings lack the basic fundamentals of Christ teachings, being that of love and compassion for all mankind regardless of who they are, what decisions they make, and what lifestyle they choose to live. This modern day voice, of what could be called Pharisees, is clearly only right by name.
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The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life. Leo Tolstoy
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/16/2007 12:21:29 PM
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colliefan
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So much garbage, so little time to refute all of it
quote:
The Christian Anarchist is only an anarchist in the sense that they pledge all loyalties to God not the state believing the state is a non-Christian institution which we should have no part in condoning
Check out Romans 13
quote:
They believe that the world is full of sinners and that we are all sinners and at one time we were all non-believers in the faith. They believe we are to turn the other cheek, love our enemies and our neighbors regardless of who they might be. The teachings of the bible show us how to live like Christ, thus the term Christian
But why did Jesus come, simply to be a good role model?
quote:
You only have to turn on the television and wait and you will see the anti-abortion right wing groups trying to overturn ROE vs. WADE decision
so, it is loving to chop a baby into little bits and then suck her out of mother's womb and not even give her so pain killer before the operation?
You didn't mention it in our post, so was it wrong for Christians to speak out against things such as slavery and child labor
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/16/2007 12:38:15 PM
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DaveW
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Hab 1:14 You make mankind like the fish of the sea, like crawling things that have no ruler.
Zec 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me," declares the LORD of hosts. "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones.
Mat 9:36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.
I do not see anywhere in the bible where lack of leadership is considered a good thing.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/17/2007 5:22:00 AM
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ABCSOFANARCHISM
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
So much garbage, so little time to refute all of it
........... To each his own opinion
I am familiar with Romans 13
I will post this link which you are more than welcome to read
http://www.jesusradicals.com/essays/theology/Romans13.htm
But this particular chapter does lead to some discussion as to the role then of Christians in participation of helping others overthrow foreign governments or the government they find themselves living under....such as giving military or monatery support to rebels fighting against dictatorships or even to the point where in our own formation as a country seeing the King as a tyrant Christian men and women went to war against the established government....... it seems to be in some cases that Romans chapter 13 is most commonly used when beneficial
quote:
But why did Jesus come, simply to be a good role model?
Christain Anarchist believe Jesus came for the same reason any other christian does to save the world
quote:
so, it is loving to chop a baby into little bits and then suck her out of mother's womb and not even give her so pain killer before the operation?
No one said abortion was the Christain or loving thing to do but living in a democratic society we have to allow people to make that decision for themselves in some cases even when we do not as christians like their decision and then simply be there to help them when they need it. Sure you can give people advise and let them know the downfalls and show them the christian thing to do but like with every choice people have to make that on there own. Just like in the case of Mary Magdeline Jesus did not use bigotry or hate to chastise nor did he argue the laws on prostitution...he simply showed her a better way to live.
And unfortunately the changing of the law is not going to change behaviour. Just like in the 1920's banning the sell of alcohol did nothing to stop the use of the product.
quote:
You didn't mention it in our post, so was it wrong for Christians to speak out against things such as slavery and child labor
No of course not but remember historically the church condoned both of these practices at one time or the other........
The idea is not that speaking out against something is wrong per-say but that using bigoted speech such as baby killer is by no means the way to spread the message of Jesus to the world
quote:
I do not see anywhere in the bible where lack of leadership is considered a good thing.
I think if you look in the old testament originally the Jewish people requested a king to be like the rest of the world and God warned against this
Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah, and said to him, "You are old and your sons do not follow in your ways; appoint for us, then, a king to govern us, like other nations." But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, "Give us a king to govern us." Samuel prayed to the Lord, and the Lord said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them. Just as they have done to me, from the day I brought them up out of Egypt to this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so also they are doing to you. Now then, listen to their voice; only-you shall solemnly warn them, and show them the ways of the king who shall reign over them." (1 Samuel 8:4-9)
And no anarchist Christian or secular believes in not having people in a leadership role..
PS, thanks for the comments this is a subject I have been studying up on for sometime and the lack of polite responses has limited feed back from non-christian anarchist which would be of any use.
< Message edited by ABCSOFANARCHISM -- 7/17/2007 7:06:46 AM >
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The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life. Leo Tolstoy
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 12:10:59 PM
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salsadip
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ABCSOFANARCHISM
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
so, it is loving to chop a baby into little bits and then suck her out of mother's womb and not even give her so pain killer before the operation?
No one said abortion was the Christain or loving thing to do but living in a democratic society we have to allow people to make that decision for themselves in some cases even when we do not as Christians like their decision and then simply be there to help them when they need it. Sure you can give people advise and let them know the downfalls and show them the Christian thing to do but like with every choice, people have to make that on there own...
...And unfortunately the changing of the law is not going to change behaviour. Just like in the 1920's banning the sell of alcohol did nothing to stop the use of the product.
I agree entirely that you can not legislate for morality. You might hold to certain values yourself but have to realise that not everyone wants to live under the same values as you. You can no more force them to do that with laws, than God does his salvation.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 12:16:01 PM
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salsadip
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I do not see anywhere in the bible where lack of leadership is considered a good thing.
Leadership is about people choosing to follow if they want to
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 4:54:26 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
I agree entirely that you can not legislate for morality
Sigh..then we should have no laws against stealing and killing? We are all fallen beings and will sin despite their being a law against such sin. But a just society needs to have penalties for the violation of its laws.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 4:56:57 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Leadership is about people choosing to follow if they want to
Judges 21:25 (ESV) 25In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 5:08:58 PM
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stephenw32768
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Sigh..then we should have no laws against stealing and killing?
Those things are considered to be wrong by the vast majority of the population. Furthermore, the very few people who commit those crimes are usually aware that they are doing wrong.
There is, however, no such consensus regarding some matters which we as Christians believe to be wrong. Legislating against them would be tantamount to imposing religious law upon unbelievers -- something unthinkable for a secular state. We are called to be salt and light to the world; as such, we can campaign against such things as abortion, presenting the Biblical reasons why they are wrong; but a secular state cannot legislate against them, and it is not appropriate to force our beliefs on unbelievers through the law.
There is a word for using the power of the state to coerce others into changing their behaviour. The word is "tyranny".
-Stephen
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 6:05:27 PM
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davelinde
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quote:
ORIGINAL: salsadip
I agree entirely that you can not legislate for morality. You might hold to certain values yourself but have to realise that not everyone wants to live under the same values as you.
Practically all civil law has a moral aspect and these morals have a basis.
Laws concerning murder, theft, rape, perjury, contract law, labor law... all are in support of a certain moral framework. To legislate without a moral basis would be... well anarchy! Not sure I understand much of this thread... but I can react to this assertion.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/18/2007 9:44:20 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Those things are considered to be wrong by the vast majority of the population. Furthermore, the very few people who commit those crimes are usually aware that they are doing wrong.
Very Few? So I guess you have prison space in the U.K. Ours, are maxed out.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/19/2007 1:39:33 AM
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ABCSOFANARCHISM
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quote:
Very Few? So I guess you have prison space in the U.K. Ours, are maxed out.
Practically all civil law has a moral aspect and these morals have a basis. Sigh..then we should have no laws against stealing and killing? We are all fallen beings and will sin despite their being a law against such sin. But a just society needs to have penalties for the violation of its laws.
Laws concerning murder, theft, rape, perjury, contract law, labor law... all are in support of a certain moral framework. To legislate without a moral basis would be... well anarchy! Not sure I understand much of this thread... but I can react to this assertion.
Let's look at this the examples of laws given which are laws you would be hard pressed to find anyone in support of doing away with....... murder, theft, rape etc; these are not things which most people would ever consider allowing,regardless of what society they live under most people would agree they are morally and ethically unacceptable.........
And true every society basis laws off of some moral code that the governing body has set forth but this does not justify the law. Take for instance the drug laws in the United States, now most Christians would say drug use and all that stems from it is morally wrong but by making drugs illegal what have we done but criminalize an entire sector of the population, put people in cages, subjecting them to all kinds of immoral things, and for what?, particpating in this behaviour These laws have turned entire neighborhoods and countries into killing fields. Yet have we irradicated drug use since these laws came into effect, absolutely not; we have simply made criminals out of people. The programs that work are not jail and punishment, they are talking to young people and giving them real options and information. The drug war in and of itself has been a complete and utter waste of tax payer money.
This same thing can be said of prostitution, which christians would consider, morally wrong but the laws have done nothing to curb or control it. The truth is we have simply made criminals out of those who participate and made it impossible to regulate this activity.
So the passing of some laws to regulate entire populations off of what some see as immoral acts can be seen as a very dangerous thing and a travesty, since historically we can see where this behavior has failed and given the fact that once you make it illegal you no longer have a say over it and have no choice but to place people who disagree and decide to continue to participate in these activities in jail.
You can also look at the opposite; vegans believe it to be morally wrong to eat animals, and some would love to see a law banning products made from animals, but I would hardly think a law would be appropriate for this moral belief. Just like with smoking, drinking or countless other things people see as morally wrong laws are not the answer.
These morality laws quite possibly are why the United States' prisons are filled past capacity..
# The Department of Justice reported that at year-end 2003, federal prisons held a total of 158,426 inmates, of whom 86,972 (55%) were drug offenders. By comparison in 2000 federal prisons held 131,739 total inmates of whom 74,276 (56%) were drug offenders, and in 1995 federal prisons held a total of 88,658 inmates of whom 52,782 (60%) were drug offenders.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2005 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, November 2006), p. 10, Table 14.
# In 2003, drug law violators comprised 20.0% of all adults serving time in State prisons - 250,900 out of 1,256,400 State prison inmates.
Source: Harrison, Paige M. & Allen J. Beck, PhD, US epartment of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Prisoners in 2005 (Washington, DC: US Department of Justice, November 2006), p. 9.
# According to the US Justice Department, 27.9% of drug offenders in state prisons are serving time for possession; 69.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 2.7% are in for "other."
Source: Mumola, Christopher J., and Karberg, Jennifer C., "Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004," (Washington, DC: US Dept. of Justice, Oct. 2006) (NCJ213530), p. 4.
# According to the Justice Department, 5.3% of drug offenders in federal prisons are serving time for possession; 91.4% are serving time for trafficking offenses; and 3.3% are in for "other."
The other misconception given is that anarchist believe in laws without morality. Most true anarchist believe in a moral and ethical code of conduct; the belief is that the current system puts minorities dictating upon the masses what that moral conduct should be and thus they find that disagreeable. They believe that societies set up with similarities to pre-revolution Russia would serve the majority of mankind far better than the present system by which we are governed under. They believe in communal style societies where each individual in a community chooses what codes of conduct they will abide by and once the community as a whole is in agreement they live within those guidelines. They would no more be in favor of allowing the things mentioned in the previous post then any other member of any society would be.
http://www.rusjournal.com/commune.html
< Message edited by ABCSOFANARCHISM -- 7/19/2007 1:50:05 AM >
_____________________________
The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life. Leo Tolstoy
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/19/2007 2:00:40 PM
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stephenw32768
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Very Few? So I guess you have prison space in the U.K. Ours, are maxed out.
Ours are full as well, unfortunately. But yes; by percentage of population, "very few" is correct.
-Stephen
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/20/2007 8:35:12 PM
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davelinde
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quote:
Let's look at this the examples of laws given which are laws you would be hard pressed to find anyone in support of doing away
So is that what this thread is about? Libertarian ideal? Legislate only the most heinous things and let the rest sort itself out? btw - where do you stand when the "majority" ceded control to an oligarchy and the "majority supported few" decide that murdering Jews is best?? Yes, it's the extreme argument - but these ideas need to deal with it... it happened historically recently.
I have been wondering... I before I got back to this I was thinking about things like sodomy laws, prostitution and drug law. I still think law needs a transcendent base in morals or it is adrift in to the whims of a sinful and spiritually DEAD majority. I think we are exceptionally fortunate to have a law system rooted in Judeo-Christian morality and I would not want to live under any other.
So... for things like drug law. Do we really want to allow someone to build a business off a chemical addiction so strong a mother will abandon her children and people will forget to eat? Would we just regulate the poor souls who become legal crackheads and invest in the stock of cheapcrack.com to bolster our 401K?
For prostitution... should we just allocate some percentage or our daughters to the sex industry? Surely with good marketing we can find a continuous supply of men willing to compromise their future or current marriage for what they want to want right now?? If we monitor their health and make sure no one beats them (too much at least) that would be "better".
The values of the society are embodied in the laws.
Do I think that a law against homosexual behavior will stop someone dedicated to indulge? no. Do I want to EMBRACE that mistake and codify that behavior into law protected by rights and encouraged by civil status? Not as long as I have a vote.
The MOST unloving thing I can do for sinful behavior is ignore it. I surely do not judge, or even expect unbelievers to understand the depth of their depravity. However, I will not - under the banner of "love" encourage it.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/21/2007 2:32:33 AM
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ABCSOFANARCHISM
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quote:
So... for things like drug law. Do we really want to allow someone to build a business off a chemical addiction so strong a mother will abandon her children and people will forget to eat? Would we just regulate the poor souls who become legal crackheads and invest in the stock of cheapcrack.com to bolster our 401K?
For prostitution... should we just allocate some percentage or our daughters to the sex industry? Surely with good marketing we can find a continuous supply of men willing to compromise their future or current marriage for what they want to want right now?? If we monitor their health and make sure no one beats them (too much at least) that would be "better".
The MOST unloving thing I can do for sinful behavior is ignore it. I surely do not judge, or even expect unbelievers to understand the depth of their depravity. However, I will not - under the banner of "love" encourage it.
Short a 401k plan and being able to say how much one is beaten as a society we already do these things. Sure we have laws which say they can't but they have yet to stem either practice. I do not advocate either practice but by passing laws on them see it as only making criminals out of people and doing little to actually help the situation.
The governments restriction on the sale of over the counter medications which has done more to curb the use of meth by making it harder to gain access to the chemicals used then the actual laws against meth users is a prime example of controlling the behavior through restrictions. The laws requiring meth users to be locked up does little if anything to actually stem the use.
A good example of how we as a society have laws which are morally based and make us feel good but seem to be nothing more than a way to turn people into criminals and collect fines are those concerning cannibas use, where the smoking of cannibas can lead to fines and jail sentences but at the very same time one can easily purchase things such as scales, pipes, bonges and papers by which to smoke and use the product.
No one is saying or implying sinful behavior should be encouraged; nor to ignore it. The programs that work best against these activities is based in education and teaching at the home level not laws which criminalize the activity itself. A prime example would be smoking; through educational programs and awareness with a mix of laws and taxes which regulate the behaviour we have seen a substantial decline in the number of people who choose to participate in this activity. The idea being that just like you don't have laws against immoral acts such as adultry you have the ability to teach people that it is not a morally correct decision and there are consequences for such activity.
The actual reason for this posting to get feed back on the differences between Christian Anarchist on the left and the Moral Majority Right Wing Christian groups on the right.
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The changes in our life must come from the impossibility to live otherwise than according to the demands of our conscience not from our mental resolution to try a new form of life. Leo Tolstoy
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 7/21/2007 9:35:28 AM
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salsadip
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ABCSOFANARCHISM
The actual reason for this posting to get feed back on the differences between Christian Anarchist on the left and the Moral Majority Right Wing Christian groups on the right.
I think part of the difference is a longer term, relational, realistic, involved approach as opposed to a legislative, quick-fix, us and them one.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 9/6/2007 11:38:11 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3581
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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Anarchism is the lack of any legal structure or political leadership. Your example:quote:
The governments restriction on the sale of over the counter medications which has done more to curb the use of meth by making it harder to gain access to the chemicals used then the actual laws against meth users is a prime example of controlling the behavior through restrictions. The laws requiring meth users to be locked up does little if anything to actually stem the use. cannot work if there is no government and no laws at all.
I do not see how "christian" and "anarchism" can be a goal for anyone. Can christians live in an ararchic environment? Yes. But they should not make it so.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 9/6/2007 6:26:58 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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so essentially this is a very long post to talk about the glories of a Christian Theocracy? The problem is that God sets up kingdoms and tears them down according to Daniel 2. The straight up fact is that anarchy is a total forfeiting of responsibility. With no law, there is no justice... whit no justice, you don't have God, because God is just. I can say a lot about the role of government, (IE, I think it should be limited in scope and dealing with big issues like abortion, national taxes that kind of thing), but suffice it to say that the mega-government dreamed by liberals and the lack of government idealized by Theocratics are both overreaching ideals that are unsustainable. The more the government encroaches on personal lives, the harder the populace is going to kickback... meaning the only way to end up with a lack of government (either a theocracy or anarchy) is a violent revolution. Lets face it, violent revolutions aren't exactly copacetic with the Sermon on the Mount or out treatment of our government officials. How does that fit in with a guy like Bonhoffer? I don't know, and I would be loathe to guess. Anarchy as a whole is a very precarious position to put yourself in, because you run the risk of some maniac seizing the reigns of power that are floating in the wind and steering the country all over the place. When Jesus returns, many people are going to be very surprised at the long reach of his Millenial Government. The Law will be proceeding from Zion, and the rule of the day will be righteousness, peace, and love. Imagine, if you will, someone trying to enforce righteousness, peace, and love... and you get the idea of why so many people will be surprised.
Adam
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 9/7/2007 6:25:30 AM
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DaveW
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Theocracy and anarchy are not the same thing at all.
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 9/7/2007 8:58:30 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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I know they are not. But the idea of a nation led by no government other than God is not anarchy either, that would be a theocracy (a nation formed around a religious belief). Anarchy means nobody is in charge at all in any way, shape, or form. So unless they are suggesting scrapping the government and letting everyone do anything they want, which is less than biblical according to Daniel 2, Romans 11-13, and Revelation 20-22, then we are actually talking about a theocratic society. As for the moral issues of abortion, prostitution and the like, were the church actually doing its job of reaching out into society to snatc sould from hell, show the love of Christ, and be the Body, the most of these issues would academic at best. So rather than talk about scrapping the government, lets talk about renovating the church and cure society from the inside out.
Adam
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RE: The RIGHT AND LEFT - 9/7/2007 9:55:55 AM
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