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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/3/2007 6:46:08 PM
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lightoutofdarkness2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
If we use the Bible as our foundation of expertise in the matter, we can know several things (if you want to argue any of these points biblically, please do!):
1. The spirit realm is real.
2. The spirit realm is inhabited by 4 kinds of spirits: God, Human, Angels, and Demons (fallen Angels).
3. There is activity in the spiritual realm.
4. The spirit realm can interact with the physical realm.
5. The spiritual realm has rules and boundaries concerning this interaction.
6. Due to these rules, none of the interactions of spiritual and physical realms are between human spirits and human spirits.
It is well said that:
quote:
Very basically, there is a common "bag of tricks" used by mischievous spirits.
"Ghosts" are very real, but they are fallen angels, not wandering human spirits. They can only do what God allows them to do, and He may well allow them moments of manifestation in a Christian's life for a variety of reasons, one of which could include the Christian's own lack of vigilance. If you have on the full armor of God, you will be able to stand fast and grow stronger, as demonstrated in joensie's anecdote.
So, gird yourselves and fear not!
Good point. In fact, I heard someone at our church say that ghosts are demons.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/3/2007 7:06:42 PM
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maddog4god
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I've dealt with MANY things in this realm and I thank God for my pastor.
if you are having persistent problems that are spiritual in nature, I urge you to seek help and keep seeking until you find it.
I ran into a poor woman whose daughter married someone from a foreign country known for worshiping other Gods. Her daughter morphed into someone who tried to kill her regularly. I urged her to speak with her pastor and if he coudln't help her, keep trying until she found someone who would and could help her.
This being said, I refuse to glorify the power of Satan. He no longer comes after me because I am not afraid of him. YES scarey things can happen, but there IS a blood line. You don't need to learn the greek language or be a certified demonologist. You need to understand your authority in Christ. There is a blood line and you are behind it.
There is a difference between SEEKING confrontation with Satan and experiencing satanic things.
If you persistently have demonic vistitation and you've done all you know how to do - I urge you to seek help.
No one should "go after" deomnic things unless they are led specifically by God to do so.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/3/2007 7:31:10 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4750
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie-Scarlet
Its definetly not for the baby , teen or young adult christian.
Age does not necessarily equal immature Christian. I was 19 and in a church meeting on a Saturday when a woman (absolutely out of the blue and only able to enter because we were in the sanctuary having a leaders meeting) entered our church with her daughter. Her daughter was clearly demon possessed and the pastor looked at three of us that were getting up to try and assess the situation and said, "you, you, and you come with.. but you (speaking to a person that was in the meeting with us) stay here and do not come near..."
Four of us men could barely hold down this teenage girl who was stronger than anything I had ever encountered before. We started to pray out loud with the pastor taking the lead. The girl's mother was in tears and shaking.
After what seemed an eternity, but was probably no more than four minutes, the girl was speaking to us in very odd voices. Very strong voices, laughing at us, squirming, and doing all she could to get loose.
After a few seconds of praying - we commanded, in Jesus' name, for the spirit to give us his name and to release the girl. The name given is something I cannot remember and the demon left.
The girl calmed down, cried, was completely out of it and unaware of what just happened. We presented the Gospel to her and she accepted it readily.
We did get an address and phone number from the mother before they left. But they seemed to have left almost as abruptly as they arrived.
Sad (strange) thing is that when the address and phone number given was checked - it was not of these people.
Only the Lord knows what ever happened to this girl and her mother.
========
Another incident from my life - when I was around 7 months old or so... I was crawling on the carpet in the living room and got a hold of one of my older sister's Lite Bright toy set pieces (think late 1970's).
I swallowed it and it got stuck in my throat passage blocking my breathing. My parents freaked out and ran outside with me to the car. This is the thing though.. it was during the 1977 Chicago blizzard. A blizzard so bad that it made national news and had completely shut nearly everyone in.
The street of our house was covered in several feet of solid snow, was very cold, and still snowing... so visibility was nearly zero.
My parents rush out with me to the car and the car is completely snowed in. It was an old Fiat two door and back then 4X4 and traction control were things my parents could never afford and the latter did not exist for commercial vehicles.
There they are in the car... freezing and their only baby boy dying and turning blue.
My parents say they were praying out loud and doing all they could to get the car out of the snow embankment and onto the street to see if they could somehow get out.
My dad says that the following still gives them chills and makes their hair stand on end.
Out of NOWHERE two big men with no coats, wearing regular pants and t shirts, came and picked the entire car up and out of the embankment and placed it onto the street.
My parents were able to get the car out to the main street which had been cleared and made it to the hospital with me.
And here I am, do to God's grace and provision, typing away to you all.
Those that know my posts here, that read them.. know my doctrinal stances. But one thing is for certain - the spiritual realm is real. The demonic realm is real. And we are to have the full armor of God on and rest in Him that He is in control.
God bless and thank you for letting me share.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 12:22:22 AM
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infectious-laugh
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One must be careful with giving 'testimonys' of demonic experiences. We are not give glory to satan, but to God.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 1:25:50 AM
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cherokeehippie
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I used to live in an apartment that had an evil spirit in it. I tried everything--anointed the place, pleaded the blood, etc, yet, still experienced demonic attacks in my sleep and sleep paralzyse, etc. One night my bed shook while listening to a christian tape!!! One morning I was being harassed in my sleep--and then, heard the Lord telling the demons to leave me alone. I woke up and in the corner of my room saw a beautiful gold shimmery cloud!!! I knew it was the Lord protecting me!!
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 3:46:55 AM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: maddog4god
No one should "go after" demonic things unless they are led specifically by God to do so.
This brings to my mind the Scripture Jude 1:9, "...yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!'"
We don't have the spiritual strength to fight with the devil on his terms, but we have the One who can tame that wicked lion.
I also wanted to say that we need to realize that the devil is not omnipotent, but he is potent. He is not omniscient, but he is brilliant. He is not omnipresent, but he is present. He prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour, but if we resist him he will flee.
How do we resist him? Again, by donning the full armor of God, as in Ephesians 6:13, "Use every piece of God's armor to resist the enemy in the time of evil, so that after the battle you will still be standing firm."
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"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 5:51:24 AM
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WillowBlue
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When I was little I lived in a haunted house. An old lady had died there just before we moved in. We saw shadows, things fell, we smelled perfume, and lights were turned on randomly. Radios were even turned onto her favorite station while the house was empty! I was the only one to see her in form, and she looked so kind, and yet so sad. After that, I researched ghosts and apparitions, and still do. It seems like a ghost is the unrested spirit of one who has died. When it is a peaceful death of a Christian, but they wish to communicate or show something, the spirit is left on Earth rather than laid to rest with the body, while the soul completes its journey to heaven, recovering a heavenly body like that he/she had while alive. The unsaved or unrested, however, can cause harm or terrify those who see or notice their presence. Neither their soul or spirit is at rest. Demons, however, are, as mentioned before, fallen angels sent to do Satan's dirty work against Christ. There are many ways to detect unrested spirits and even hear their words. EVP, for instance. I could go on about the types of spirits and the science of supernatural phenomenon, but seeing as how it took a ten-page research paper in 12th grade to do so, I will leave it at this. I do welcome, however, any questions about what I have learned about and become passionate about through the years.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 7:49:47 AM
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earthless
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There is nothing biblical in supporting the above stated that human spirits are left to roam the earth.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 9:13:09 AM
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WillowBlue
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...I just reread my comment, and I couldn't find anything saying that what I wrote was biblical. I know it's difficult to not mislead sometimes, so if there is anything needing reworded, please ask.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 9:40:23 AM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7538
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WillowBlue
...I just reread my comment, and I couldn't find anything saying that what I wrote was biblical. I know it's difficult to not mislead sometimes, so if there is anything needing reworded, please ask.
That makes two of us.
I couldn't find anything in your statement that lined up with the Bible either.
Thanks for your honesty.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 9:53:53 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WillowBlue
...I just reread my comment, and I couldn't find anything saying that what I wrote was biblical. I know it's difficult to not mislead sometimes, so if there is anything needing reworded, please ask.
Weren't you saying it as something you believe to be true?
Below is what stuck out as being unscriptural:
quote:
It seems like a ghost is the unrested spirit of one who has died. When it is a peaceful death of a Christian, but they wish to communicate or show something, the spirit is left on Earth rather than laid to rest with the body, while the soul completes its journey to heaven, recovering a heavenly body like that he/she had while alive. The unsaved or unrested, however, can cause harm or terrify those who see or notice their presence. Neither their soul or spirit is at rest.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to convey.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 10:18:06 AM
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Katie-Scarlet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Katie-Scarlet
Its definetly not for the baby , teen or young adult christian.
Age does not necessarily equal immature Christian.
Hi I wasn't speaking of age as in numerical I was referring to level of spiritual maturity.
quote:
But one thing is for certain - the spiritual realm is real. The demonic realm is real. And we are to have the full armor of God on and rest in Him that He is in control.
Absolutely!
_____________________________
Satans job is 24hrs 365 days a year and he never takes lunch, vacation or has a sick day.
Are you ready to join the war? Know your enemy, prepare yourself.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 12:31:59 PM
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1withHim
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gazingstock--This "white form" (or black form) wearing a hat and or a cape is one of the more common manifestations from the general "bag of tricks". Coming out of a particular persons room "accuses him". Either correctly or incorrectly hardly matters. Moving to a traditionally spooky part of the house: closet, basement, attic adds to the traditional fear and eeriness of these locations.
greetings and peace in Jesus,
First, you make it sound as if she made the whole thing up, tradition or not, she saw that thing and it looked exactly like she told me. I don't doubt her one bit and please do not put words that were not there. Never said anything about a cape, what an ignorant remark. Second, you were not there. My sister saw what she saw, whether you believe it or not....is your choice. Could care less whether you believe it or not. My speculation from my brother is based on real experiences of those who are/were addicted to hard drugs and how that open door leads to increasing demonic activity. About where the spirit moved....what difference does that make? It moved where it moved. Would you have been more convinced had the spirit left...say, out the front door? How ridiculous you sound. Don't reply to anything I say unless you can bring some substance. What I wrote was a REAL experience. My sister is my twin and she does not lie. She has always seen....and yeah...why are you yelling....cause you aint gelling?
Get a grip. If you don't like what we have to say, then don't reply....move on.
God bless you,
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Boast not that you know the LORD but rather, make absolutely sure...the LORD knows you. Matthew 7:23.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 12:37:30 PM
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1withHim
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earthless,
powerful testimony! Praise God for His unparalled power and unending mercy.
God bless you,
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Boast not that you know the LORD but rather, make absolutely sure...the LORD knows you. Matthew 7:23.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 12:52:28 PM
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1withHim
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willowblue---Well... and me makes three. There is nothing biblical about people who have passed away to then make their presence known. I only know what the Bible says about it and just cast anything that manifests itself against the LIGHT and knowledge of God anything that says Jesus did not come in the flesh or is just not holy, just or pure. The Bible says that much study is wearisome to the flesh and of making many books there is no end...Ecclesiastes 12. Sometimes we can study too much, or become too involved with the demonic realm that we can then start to believe in what man says about a realm that they can only speculate about. Only God knows ALL things and what we are to know is written in His Book. If there are spirits that are lingering around, you'd best believe that they are not the people that passed. Only one group of people raised from the dead and that is when Jesus gave up the ghost. No other mention of people walking around that were dead. Be careful of the trick of the enemy, people call them familiar spirits. Just keep the Word in your heart and heed the voice of the LORD when He says that spirits walks through dry places, looking for rest....Matthew 12, He didn't say that they would sit down and have conversations with people or have fun with them by tossing stuff around. If you see something, don't try to figure it out....cast it out in the name of the Lord Jesus and leave it in His hands. Don't mess around with this stuff very often. Seriously. Take care.
God bless you,
_____________________________
Boast not that you know the LORD but rather, make absolutely sure...the LORD knows you. Matthew 7:23.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 1:07:47 PM
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laura...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gazingstock
I strongly believe that it's not for most Saints to search these matters out. Especially if you have the luxury of never having experienced any manifestations personally. For children, for obsessive personalities types, or for the emotionally unstable, it can be potentially harmful. There are plenty of obstacles to overcome in everyday life. It is for the experienced, the strong in faith, and spiritually mature:
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. -Hbr 5:14
Hebrews 5:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Hebrews 6
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.
Hebrews 5 and 6 makes very clear what is "milk" and what is "meat". "Milk" is the elementary truths of repentance, faith, baptisms, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgement. The issue of the demonic and our authority in Jesus Christ falls under "faith in God" and is an elementary truth, ie. milk. Any born again Christian has the authority to rebuke and cast out demons even if they were born again 2 seconds ago.
"Meat" is learning to distinguish good from evil so that one walks in righteousness.
Unfortunately, one of the pitfalls that the enemy sets before us is to give us experiences with the supernatural. The enemy doesn't even care if we quickly learn how to cast him out if it results in us being puffed up with pride that we have somehow obtained a special level of maturity or understanding because we know how to battle demons. Trust me I've been there and the damage that pride does to our walking in righteousness is far worse than what any demon can do.
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This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 1:11:08 PM
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Robert_G
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It is mind boggling that some Christians refuse to acknowledge the some or all of the Spiritual world.
Angels are real, demons are real, and most importantly, their interactions with us are real.
As Christians, we are not to dwell on demons, or angels, nor are we to glorify demons or angels.
John got his 'hand slapped' by an angel for trying to worship that angel.
On the other hand, we are not to turn a blind eye to demons either. We must acknowledge that they exist, and if we are in a situation where action against one is needed, then so be it.
Do we go out looking for demons to fight against? Of course not, but we have to be ready for when/if the situation comes up.
On the other hand, some people are spiritually gifted in Exorcism, and that's what God calls them to do regularily. Certaintly, not all Christians have this gift, but the fact is Exorcisms are real, and to deny they exist, is to deny what Jesus said and did.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 2:02:09 PM
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kmangel
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Before I was saved I used to be very fearful of evil presences. It's not that I actually "saw" any. I didn't, yet I was fearful. When God saved me He replaced my fear with a desire to know and love Him fully. My mind began to turn to Him in all situations--still does. By concentrating on God, I have no time to dwell on fear. The day I was saved I feel I was delivered of the fear I had carried with me for years and the deliverance I experienced was reinforced by my keeping my eyes on Jesus. That's a key to being delivered of fear, in my opinion. We must keep our eyes on Jesus.
On the angel side of manifestations, I do have a story to share. Our church had a winter ski trip for its youth group to Colorado. Unfortunately, one of the buses on the trip this particular year lost control and crashed on the side of the mountain. Many people were hurt (three died). One teenager who got out of the bus remarked that she was disoriented and headed away from the bus. A man "appeared" and told her to go the other direction she was headed. When she got back to the people near the bus, she asked if anyone had seen the man who had spoken to her. No one had. People concluded an angel had come to help her. Another story told was how the cell phones worked that night, but usually on the mountain cell phones don't work. God is wonderful. He's always looking out for us. These are the stories I like to dwell on. They are manifestations of the spiritual realm--but of good, not evil.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 4:09:50 PM
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captainfraulein
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I think the Orthodox have something about a person traveling around after death but I am unsure. If anybody is Orthodox, please let me know if you have heard of that.
I myself have had scary experiences I do not like to talk about honestly while a child. What is odd is I was born on Halloween. I now say I was born on Reformation Day though. 
I have had more than one encounter with angels BEFORE my conversion to Christ. My mother sends me articles on them because of that.
One encounter was back in like 1988, I went to London, UK with my siblings. We were near Trafalgar Square. Some very plain pale black haired lady came up and held me down, she prevented me from moving forward. I wanted to protest as a young teen...but suddenly a cab car came through. I would have died instantly if she had not done that. Do I look American? Maybe but I have an English last name and while there, most people did not know I was American until I spoke. How did she know to do that? My other siblings did not move and nobody held them down! I looked around, nobody else was held down.*
This lady released me (it was all so quick) and then walked away. She had a very vacant expression, sort of like she came to do what she came to do.
I was a rebellious teenager. I did EVERYTHING you could do Rock n Roll. Partying. I did not have a soft heart.
but in that moment, I cried. I silently asked God "Why are you keeping me alive? Am I here for a purpose?" I had felt so useless for my young life.
Fast forward, I have been in prison ministry...and I keep reaching out to people for Christ. I also am an active auntie to not only flesh and blood kidlets, but my "spiritual" kidlets as well.
So I think God predestined me and kept me alive for His purpose. I am not anymore "special" than anyone else but I am pretty blessed.
*being a teen and American, I did not look BOTH WAYS. The cab came the way I was not used to...
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/7/2007 10:07:46 PM
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WillowBlue
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If I do not believe it, then I do not state it. I truly believe in the spiritual realms, both the one called Heaven, directly correlated to God, and the worldly one where people see spirits every day. I have photos, evidence and experience to prove what I believe. People who do not believe in discoveries beyond biblical times have proof of that as well. Those of different religions can prove that theirs is correct. Everybody has their own proof, but we, as humans, must discern founded proof from manmade proof. Sciences and history, for instance. Science is discovered, and history is straightforward. It also begins with the Bible. As for sciences, electricity and modern medicine as we know it had not been heard of. Writing this has brought a question into my mind. Do you think that God and Jesus know all in past and present, or all in past, present and future? Depending one the answer, why didn't they reveal the far-coming wonders of technology and the medical fields and other maths/sciences?
*I may be verbally slaughtered for part 2 of question 2, so I will reveal what I have learned of Jesus' life. The men and women he lived and walked among wouldn't need our version of medicine since Jesus has the power to heal those who humbly ask and those with faith.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/8/2007 7:58:20 AM
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earthless
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God knows the past, present, and future. As He is outside our realm and concept of time. And why didn't He reveal technologies and such to man? That's like faulting a teacher for not giving his students all of the answers. What would be the point of free will, discovery, and learning?
Bit of an odd question to ask in a thread about the spiritual/demonic realm.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/8/2007 8:00:57 AM
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kmangel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WillowBlue
I have photos, evidence and experience to prove what I believe.
While I believe that there is a spiritual realm I also believe that we should not dwell on it. Are you spending a lot of time on the evil side of spiritualism? It appears you are fascinated with it. That can get you in trouble. I do not believe that any ghosts you claim to have seen are human (if they exist at all). If you are indeed seeing ghosts, as when you lived in the haunted home, what you saw were not human in origin. If you really were seeing ghosts you were seeing demons, not departed people.
Before I was saved I was curious and fearful of demons. What I have come to realize as a Christian is that if I keep my mind firmly fixed on God then the fear I used to carry with me is gone. Maybe you are not fearful of the spiritual realm. You should be. Get your mind on Jesus. That's where it needs to be. Concentrate on God, Who He is and why He sent us Jesus. Work on growing in your love and relationship with Jesus. That's what God wants you to do. The devil is clever. He can intice us with getting our eyes off Jesus in many ways. Spiritism is one such way. Don't go there.
_____________________________
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/8/2007 12:21:54 PM
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Super_Nova
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Very interesting thread. My two cents: The spirit realm is real. Satan and all his cohorts are real. Angels are real. However, we have to realize that everything must go by God first before it happens. If people say they see things, I believe they have. The issue comes with how they deal with what they see. As Christians we should approach any situation that seems outside of normal, in a cautious manner. We have to have enough faith to know and believe that if satan is testing us that he had to ask God first and that God believes in through our faith in him and that he will always offer a solution. The solution is that Blood line that has been mentioned here on this thread.
When I was a kid, we were taught early on to deal with these sort of things since weird things always seemed to be happening to my family members and in theire homes. I remember that a wine cart would just start moving and we were all taught at kids to state in the "Name of Jesus, leave this house, you are not welcome here." Fear is not given to us by God so we were taught not to be afraid. I have been instilling the same thing in my children. My 7 has been afraid of the dark, the boogieman(like most kids). I don't dwell on it in detail and ask him to describe a whole scenario. I let him know that WHENEVER he feels afraid of ANYTHING to call on the name of Jesus and tell the fear to go away and ask Jesus to protect him.
Evil is real, and we just have to learn how to deal with it, and that is by relinquishing control over to God and making sure evil, whatever form it comes in, knows that we know that God is in control.
SIDEBAR:I have always heard the saying that the devil doesn't mess with those who are already ruining themselves, only bothers those who are on the right path and he wants to knock them off that path.
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RE: The Paranormal, Ghosts and Demons - 8/8/2007 1:01:43 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3569
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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Whether spirits, demons et al are real is not the issue. We are told in the NT that they are.
The devil and his minions may have some limited supernatural power. Big deal. The real power he has is deception and parlor tricks. What ever he may throw at us is miniscule to the power of Jesus' name, and His blood.
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