|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 8/21/2007 8:53:45 PM
|
|
|
HisLamb26
Posts: 354
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why do we think the church would prefer it to stay in the closet?
That's a huge question, Memaw. I think Khutcheson touched on it a bit. Ignorance in the pastorate is one of them. Shame of the victims is another, especially when the abusing spouse attends the same church. I also think there is an inherent misogyny still quite prevalent within the walls of the church itself. IMO we see examples of it here every day in this forum, contained withinin many of these threads-this one included.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 8/21/2007 10:11:02 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3036
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
|
Most here know that I work for a church. There are others who hold positions in churches similar to mine. The church I work for is small; regardless, this is what I see and hear:
"Abiyah, we can't say that I (the pastor) do counseling. Counseling carries with it a heavier meaning, and people will assume that I am a psychologist, so today, pastors get sued for calling themselves counselors. Just tell them that I will advise."
i.e. the pastors are already in fear, with good and proveable reasoning, that they are going to get sued if they deviate far from simply preaching. Even their preaching can get them in trouble, especially in Canada. And when the pastor recently wanted to compliment me on my weight loss, he wanted to say it but he had to stand there and search for the right words. People, as you well know, are suit-happy.
So the churches, at least in my state, cannot just automatically open a shelter, cannot automatically offer help, etc. Even when the church I work for opened a food bank, the state came and closed it. They wanted us to keep records of who got what, of how often they returned, of the monetary value, of the food left in the church after a "shopping" day, to have specially-made storage containers, hire particular people to run it. A church cannot just automatically give food to the poor! Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture???
Further, many pastors are not their own. While they certainly take all the blame, they cannot just make the choices. Everything has to be brought before a board, and the board makes the decisions. Add to that the the board is fenced in by the congregation. Unfortunately, this is what the world has made the churches become because of innumerable troubles in the past, law suits, dishonesty, and other abuses both within the churches and of which churches have been falsely accused. We have law-sued ourselves into a bramble bush we will never get out of. Then it is easy to blame the churches.
Well, I blame them, too. After all, I suffered plenty of specific abuse from clergy. So it is up to us individually. What are we to do besides ring our hands and talk about it? Sure, I give food and other requested items to the shelters, but that is not enough. And I don't know what more to do. I don't know how to fix it.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 8/22/2007 10:24:12 AM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 8/22/2007 10:08:45 AM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 548
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
I have been supporting Focus Ministries for that reason. They offer help to people of faith, and they do training for churches as well on this issue. They have some rather big supporters like the Moody Bible Church for one. Pastor Lutzer did a sermon on domestic abuse called the destructive secret, and it was very good. When I was new to this issue I was shocked that they offered services to Pastor's wife....I know naive of me!  What can I say! 
They are finding there is alot of stigma attached to this issue, and some are afraid to support it because they don't want people thinking certain things about their family, them or the organization they represent. There is alot of fear attached to it, and it has nothing to do with profem and the rest of it!
Years ago they did this big interview with Focus on the Family, and they had an Christian author (who is a police officer) as a guest on the show as well and Focus Ministry staff. They also had one of the ladies that they had helped. I guess her husband caught wind of it - sounds like they had been out of contact due to his behavior - and started to threaten Focus on the Family. They pulled the interview. Focus Ministries, the author, and the lady all told them to just cut out her portion of the show and go ahead with it! I guess they were to afraid at that point, and mentioned they were not sure that people would appreciate this type of show. They never did release it. To me that is strange because I can't believe with all the backlash that organization has taken over the years due to other issues that they were afraid of this man, and yet they were claiming he was the real issue why they would not release the interview. The ministry has a good reputation, but people just aren't quite there yet to accept it. Its a overall society thing I think - faith just adds an extra to it! I think the strangest thing about the Focus on the Family issue is that they send leads to Focus Ministries alot, but they dont' $$ support them. That makes no sense to me.
It goes to show you there is alot of fear surrounding this issue. Stigmas and stereotypes are abound as well. You see alot of "Why doesn't she just leave?" comments, and you have to wonder why don't ask, "Why does he do that?" instead! LOL! If the roles are reverse (which we all know it happens to either gender) reverse the he-she! I hear alot of, "Well all he needs is a good talking to!" and that also shows ignorance of the the dynamics. I will admit I WAS ONE OF THOSE years ago as well! LOL!
Focus Ministries is geared more towards women, but I know they have had men approach them...and handed them leads to other organizations more geared towards the men's dynamics. Alot of the dynamics are the same, but some gender portions are different. Due to the ignorance, and society placing these ideas of what a man should be willing to (fill in the blank). I will never understand that personally. You hear about abusive mothers....why is it so hard to understand they can also be wifes, etc. Faith Trust Institute is another big organization - they are multi faith, but have a male pastor from HI that does alot of work for them. He also authored a successful book on the subject. LOL I will have to look that up...not enough coffee to remember the title right now!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 7/9/2008 1:17:26 PM
|
|
|
celebratejesus911
Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2008
From: Sams Valley, Oregon
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: KHutcheson
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
On a more serious note-as long as women continued to be beaten and murdered by their spouses, and churches don't have much of an alternative to offer- their will be a need for secular women's shelters. In the name of the two women I know personally who no longer walk this earth due to being murdered by the losers they were married to, I hope the day when shelters are no longer necessary will come soon. (I've lost both a cousin and a coworker to domestic violence.)
The generation of women who came before me have worked hard to bring domestic violence out of the closet, where often I think the church would prefer it stay. If men need services that aren't being offered, then perhaps it's time for men to do the foot work that women have done over the last few decades to help fill in the gap in necessary care.
You said it, HisLamb. The church has been totally inadequate. Abusers are often very charming, very educated and very manipulative - and they can very easily fool pastors and others. I have seen it first hand.
F. Lee Grady was quoted at this link: http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/5lies.html
"A comprehensive study on domestic violence in the church in the mid 80's revealed that 26 percent of the pastors counseled an abused wife to keep submitting and trust that God would either stop the abuse or give her the strength to endure it. About a fourth of the pastors believed that abuse is the wife's fault because of her lack of submission! And a majority of the pastors said it is better for wives to endure violence against them than to seek a separation that might end in divorce."
Now, this was 20 years ago. Perhaps things have changed somewhat. But if this is the attitude in a church, any church, where would an abused woman go? Because so many churches frown on separations, even for violence, women can be faced with a terrible dilemma - obey their church and endure beatings, or escape the violence and face the disapproval of their church. Thank God for the shelters who give these women and children a safe place.
James 2:12-17 says:
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Kevin
Ive been a christian since 93 and been a regular attender of church. I have move around a lot so the longest in one church was 8 years. Lately, I was involved with one for just under a year. I was in such financial distress, living way miles from the city and could not afford anything let alone gas. Some folks took me in from the church but it soon became apparent there were alterior motives. Anyway, no one in my church offered help but I did tell all the situation. I don't feel I deserved help, as I believe I deserve nothing but death. But because of Jesus, I don't have to go that route. I was forced to go to 2 different womens shelters, one supposedly supported by the churches in the area. Without going into morbid detail, it was the most abusive place, and in the name of Jesus they were conducting their "business", Sick, but most of all sick, to know that none of "Gods" money is going to help except where the "churches" decided where to spend it. Now I know this isn't true every where so please no replies about "how good your church is" I already know that. I just wasn't blessed to find one. All these things worked for the good, yes. But I saw women that did not know Christ, so they had no hope at all, be thrown out into the dark street, without supper and not even a sleeping bag, IN WINTER!! I can tell you. When I go to church again, I am finding out what they are doing for the lost and unsaved. Excuse me, but all these missions and buying books, which I pay for, to teach elaborate studies and retreats that cost big bucks???? And theres the lady sitting there wondering, does anyone care about me, is this Jesus real??
Ok, I'll get off the soapbox now. But this "church" big business **** is out of control and many are losing site of their first love.
No longer on the streets and don't want others to be, denise
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 7/9/2008 7:07:26 PM
|
|
|
severusinfurs
Posts: 2
Joined: 7/9/2008
Status: offline
|
[quote="PDChaplain"]They are willing to see the abuse cycle as a two-way street.
Can you explain this comment in more detail?
quote:
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-39.htm
I find it curious that the site you linked to appears to be more about protecting the rights of the accused than the rights of the victims. Naturally, I believe in equal and complete justice, and the concept of innocence until proven guilty. However, I hestitate to endorse the idea that in a situation as volilte and complex as domestic violence, we should encourge the supposed aggressor and supposed victim to remain in the same household until the matter can be legally sorted, which often takes weeks or months. I too agree that men or women should not be hauled off to prison on the basis of hearsay, but I do believe the police have the right to take the assumed abuser into the station to be questioned, and to make an arrest, just as they would if they pulled over a man or woman who was intoxicated and driving, or someone running from a robbery scene with a gun. The police are not judge and jury, but they do have the right to get involved.
quote:
a LARGE percentage of men are abused but the LARGER percentage of these abused men will NOT report their abuse. I can personally assure you we have no real concept of how far reaching the abuse of males is ..... from infants to teenage victims to adult victims.
It is true that a significant portion of all forms of abuse goes unreported, by both men and women. It is also very true that men reporting abuse or sexual crimes are often stigmatized and looked down upon. Unfortunately, the society in which we live is not one that tolerates vulnerability well, which could be the reason women who report rapes sometimes have their reputations smeared and suggestive comments made about their body and clothing, to make it look as though they were "asking for it". I'm sure the same happens to men who dare make reports. It is a sad fact, but if a man does not reach out for help, he cannot be helped, just like the thousands of women currently in abusive home situations who aren't talking. Society does not read minds. Fairy godmothers don't magically appear to pull people out of painful environments. The abused themselves need to reach out. The shelter in which I had the privilege of completing a social science internship offered care, counselling, financial support, legal support, medical assistance and group therapy for both men and women. Men did come into those doors looking like hell, feeling like it too, and were cared for. We were lucky to have financial resources, as a secular organization, to provide housing for both sexes. However, we couldn't help those who called the hotline and hung up, or refused to walk through our doors, or continued to lie to hospital staff and police about where they got their horrible injuries. As long as men remain silent, they encourage silence from other abused men.
quote:
If we are to offer the male the SAME validation we hold out to the female abuse victim, then the sytem MUST be changed and made more equitable.
Unfortunately, systems do not change unless both those in power and those in need speak out and insist upon change. If all the men who had been hurt as children or adults stepped forward to claim their need to help and their right to assistance, things would change.
Much of what you have written documents what all social scientists and many others already know. Male socialization encourages a stoic, silent, in control sort of man who embodies characteristics best defined as macho. That's a problem. It's a problem for women, who you have surely heard complain about the male resistance to emotional openness. It's more of a problem for men, who are forced to deny who they really are to conform to a false image of masculinity. It needs to change, but you can't change society if no one speaks up. Unfortunately, by criticising feminists, who are for the most part allies in this respect, you're losing an opportunity to unify. True, there are plenty of radical feminists and man-haters out there. Ignore them. The average woman would support this sort of change.
quote:
When we flippantly refer a woman to one of these facilities, we open up her family to even MORE hurt and we open the door to divorce
I would definitely sleep better at night knowing I assisted a woman in escaping a violent husband, or a man in escaping a violent wife than knowing I did nothing to help, but possibly prevented a divorce between a hurting individual and his or her spouse.
Yes, the healing process is a difficult one. It's very hard to accept the reality of what has happened to a loved one, or what a loved one has done to someone else. People often would prefer not to know, would prefer to have the abused person remain quiet for the family harmony. However, it's not right, not morally, and not legally. It is better that the family face some difficulty in uprooting, only to be healed, than to remain in constant pain because of abuse.
[quote="faceinthecrowd"] I think Christians need to stop being threatened by strong independent women and start embracing them. We aren't going to act the way society wants us to act because society wants us to act that way. We are going to act the way that we act because we believe it is right. In the case of many feminists, what we believe is right comes from our faith.
I support this post. :)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Women's "Shelters" really shelters? - 7/10/2008 12:29:05 AM
|
|
|
PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 303
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
|
An abuser is NOT going to change just because some folks lay hands on and pray for him/her. Most churches DO NOT have the trained mental health staff to assist abused spouses nor the facilities to keep an abused spouse and the children safe from the abuser. Abusive behavior is not just an "anger" issue. It is a systemic control issue usually coupled with other behaviors such as impulsiveness, addiction, intimacy/ immaturity, etc.
Abusers are truly dangerous to their victims, often past the point of rationality. Most women who are murdered are killed by an abusive husband, ex-husband, boyfriend, or ex-boyfriend. That is a fact supported by many years of law enforcement statistics.
My first husband was not only physically/mentally/sexually abusive and brutally so, but he used the Bible to justify his treatment of me and you can guess which verse he used- Wives submit to your husbands...
After my third trip to the hospital for broken bones, both eyes blackened, severe concussion, and bruises on every part of my body not to mention being torn up inside from him raping me after he had beaten me, I decided it was time to leave and leave for good. I got a divorce and have not looked back. He chose not to honor our marriage vows- he did not honor or cherish me, he did not love me as Christ loved the church.
The shelter I went to helped keep me safe, provided me with competent mental health staff(my counselor was christian), and helped me with the legal fees to get the divorce.
My ex? Went to prison for several years for killing his next woman... he beat her to death. Got out of prison and went back for beating another woman almost to death. That is not an extreme example, that is- sadly- the norm.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
