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The Godhead - 9/25/2007 2:50:02 PM
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DInsight
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Grace and peace from God and the Christ unto all!
Speaking of our Lord Jesus Christ, Col 2:9 states:
quote:
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Why or on what basis do brethren say the Godhead is made of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
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RE: The Godhead - 9/25/2007 3:14:23 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2340
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DInsight
Grace and peace from God and the Christ unto all!
Speaking of our Lord Jesus Christ, Col 2:9 states:
quote:
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Why or on what basis do brethren say the Godhead is made of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
First, are you sure you know what the word "godhead" means? It means deity, the substance of God. Are you going to deny that Father, Son or Holy Spirit are divine? In any case there are a lot of verses that show that the LORD is triune. How open are you to listening?
Here is an incomplete listing of verses that show God's nature, and that are important to understanding that nature is triune:
Daniel 7:13-14; Revelation 1:17-18, 4:1-11, 5:1-14, 17:14, 19:7-19; John 1:1-5 & 14-18, 3:13-17, 6:41-69, 8:12-30, 14:11-20, 17:5; Exodus 3:14-16; Hebrews 1:5-10, 9:14; Nehemiah 9:6; Matthew 28:8-10; Romans 8:34; Luke 23:46; Mark 16:19; Colossians 1:13-20; Phillipians 2:5-11; 1Corinthians 8:6; Isaiah 44:6, 48:12; Deuteronomy 6:4... and many many more. If you'd like explanation on how any of these applies to the subject at hand, I'd be happy to oblige.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: The Godhead - 9/25/2007 4:29:03 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving from FaithWalk to God.
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RE: The Godhead - 9/25/2007 6:01:57 PM
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DInsight
Posts: 285
Joined: 3/14/2006
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Grace and peace from God and the Christ unto you, figmentPez!
Your first paragraph is very unnecessary and completely unrelated to my question. I did not ask for the meaning of "Godhead" as I know that to mean "divine nature" translated from the greek word "theiotes"... or "deity" translated from the greek word "theotes". In this discussion, I use Godhead as a general name for the divine nature of God.
Also unnecessary is your wild suspicion/speculation that I intend to deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don't know where you got that from.
Your second paragraph is well noted and thanks for scriptures given. Please, you may explain how Godhead, as divine nature, can be derived from them.
But specifically, and especially as it relates to Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, and Colossians 2:9 - how fitting is the general definition of the Godhead as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
For example Romans 1:20 states:
quote:
For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
Now, watch this... watch this very carefully: Through faith the world was framed by the word of God (Son of God), according to Hebrew 11:3... so that things which are seen (His Godhead and eternal power) were not made of things which do appear. Godhead and eternal power are divine things made, but God is not made.
By saying "invisible things", the Holy Ghost in Paul clearly gives what two invisible things He is speaking about, which are His eternal power and His Godhead. These invisible things are now clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (by them).
God (the Father, Son and Holy Ghost) has these two things (Godhead and eternal power) by which all things are made.
Again in Col. 2:9-10 states:
quote:
For in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power.
The Holy Ghost in Paul, again in these verses, isolates two invisible things and calls them head of all principality and power. We know that resurrected Jesus Christ was made the head above all principality (Eph. 1:20-21)... but the Son of God is God, without beginning or ending.
Comparing with the two invisible things from Col. 2:9-10 with those two invisible things from Romans 1:20, it is clear what the Godhead (a thing of God) is.
Again, if we agree that "Godhead" is same as "divine nature", we agree that it also means "name" as in the "name of our Lord Jesus Christ". Nature is same as name; the Son of God has various names (natures) depending on any significant role He plays at any time or season. His name as the Word of God is above all other names - see Psalms 138:2
In the Father, in Christ, and in the Holy Ghost are both invisible things by which all things are made. And we clearly see their eternal power and Godhead, being understood in those thing that they (eternal power and Godhead) make.
I hope you catch my drift. So, my question was not to deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or to define "Godhead", but simply to clarify (not to judge wrong) the basis upon which my brethren commonly say that the "Godhead" equals the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
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RE: The Godhead - 9/25/2007 6:48:53 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2340
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From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DInsight
Grace and peace from God and the Christ unto you, figmentPez!
Your first paragraph is very unnecessary and completely unrelated to my question. I did not ask for the meaning of "Godhead" as I know that to mean "divine nature" translated from the greek word "theiotes"... or "deity" translated from the greek word "theotes". In this discussion, I use Godhead as a general name for the divine nature of God.
Also unnecessary is your wild suspicion/speculation that I intend to deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don't know where you got that from.
Your second paragraph is well noted and thanks for scriptures given. Please, you may explain how Godhead, as divine nature, can be derived from them.
God's nature is to be Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Since you came in here claiming that it is not inherent in the nature of deity to be Father, Son and Holy Spirit, I naturally assumed that you were here to deny the triune nature of God.
quote:
Again, if we agree that "Godhead" is same as "divine nature", we agree that it also means "name" as in the "name of our Lord Jesus Christ". Nature is same as name; the Son of God has various names (natures) depending on any significant role He plays at any time or season. His name as the Word of God is above all other names - see Psalms 138:2
God's name was given to Moses in Exodus 3:14-16 (one of the verses I referenced). God says "I AM WHO I AM". This is God's nature, to be what He is. This is also His name for all generations, the LORD. The name above all names is LORD. God is who He is, He is the existent One. The verses I quoted shows who God is, what it is His nature to be. Among the things that it is God's nature to be is to be Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each is divine, being each is essential and basic to who God is. It is right to say that divine nature is to exist as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, thus the Godhead is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
quote:
I hope you catch my drift. So, my question was not to deny the Father, Son and Holy Spirit or to define "Godhead", but simply to clarify (not to judge wrong) the basis upon which my brethren commonly say that the "Godhead" equals the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
No, quite frankly I don't catch your drift. You come in here and deny that it is the divine nature for God to be the three persons of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and then talk about the divine nature as if it is something other than God's identity. I have no clue what you're talking about. I do know you're ignorant about God's name.
Maybe it would be best if we used modern translations, maybe the NASB, because only older translations like the KJV use "godhead" as a word at all.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: The Godhead - 9/26/2007 8:01:36 AM
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timf
Posts: 653
Joined: 10/20/2006
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Why or on what basis do brethren say the Godhead is made of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
θεοτητος noun - genitive singular feminine
theotes theh-ot'-ace: divinity (abstractly) -- godhead.
It is theotes which occurs in Col 2:9. Here Paul declares that "all the fullness of the Godhead" dwells in Christ "bodily." The phrase "fullness of the Godhead" is an especially emphatic one. It means everything without exception which goes to make up the Godhead, the totality of all that enters into the conception of Godhood.
Christians generally use three persons to describe God because this is what Jesus did.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
While we may never fully understand God in this age, however we have as an example Jesus.
John 10:30
I and my Father are one.
John 20:22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
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RE: The Godhead - 9/26/2007 10:25:24 AM
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DInsight
Posts: 285
Joined: 3/14/2006
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Thanks, timf.
I find yours quoted below to satisfactorily answer my question, especially the emboldened:
quote:
The phrase "fullness of the Godhead" is an especially emphatic one. It means everything without exception which goes to make up the Godhead, the totality of all that enters into the conception of Godhood.
Christians generally use three persons to describe God because this is what Jesus did.
If I understood you properly, the phrase "fullness of Godhead" can also render "fullness of the divine nature of God".
Therefore, the totality of all His natures - fatherhood, love, principality, righteousness, eternal life, sonship, spirit, etc - make the fullness that dwells in God, either as the Father, the Son or the Spirit.
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RE: The Godhead - 9/26/2007 11:27:45 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2087
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From: The Crossroads of America
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I think we have to remember that when we say there are Three "Persons" in one God, we are referring to how Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relate to one another. There are relationships that exist between the Three Persons. The Father gave the Son for us, the Father was well pleased with the Son, the Son would send the Comforter, all Three Persons raised the Son from the dead.
The Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit. The Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father or Son. All three are God, yet not three Gods.
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RE: The Godhead - 9/30/2007 2:18:17 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1921
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quote:
Why or on what basis do brethren say the Godhead is made of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
In the Bible God has revealed Himself to exist as three Persons. Therefore the Godhead is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And the fulness of the Godhead is in each Person, but in Christ the fulness of the Godhead is found "bodily" in that the Man Christ Jesus is now in Heaven, with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
When speaking of the Godhead, we need to always remember that ultimately it is a mystery. We will never fully understand the Godhead.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: The Godhead - 10/4/2007 11:39:03 PM
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Pman.
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(Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
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