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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/18/2005 6:52:50 PM
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rockv12
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gambit
Because Jesus was under the law at that time.
As for Luke 18:20...You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.
Hmmm, no mention of sabbath keeping here.
Simple reasoning can understand that Jesus was not giving an exhaustive list, but was making a point to answer the guy's question. That's like a little kid responding after hitting his sister after mom and dad tell him to behave himself..."But you didn't tell me specifically I couldn't hit her." "Thou shalt have no other gods" wasn't on the list either, but surely Jesus would agree that is a commandment to follow.
< Message edited by rockv12 -- 7/18/2005 6:56:28 PM >
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/18/2005 10:38:37 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
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RockV said: quote:
Simple reasoning can understand that Jesus was not giving an exhaustive list, but was making a point to answer the guy's question. That's like a little kid responding after hitting his sister after mom and dad tell him to behave himself..."But you didn't tell me specifically I couldn't hit her." "Thou shalt have no other gods" wasn't on the list either, but surely Jesus would agree that is a commandment to follow .
The reason Jesus didn't mention Sabbath is because it was ritual law. "Thou shall have no other Gods..." is included in the Law of Love Jesus gave us. The Royal Law. So it was on the list. He may not have listed it at that point, but He did make it very clear to us in other scripture. The Sabbath, He didn't. All Old Covenant ritual laws and the 2 tablets were nailed to the Cross. The two tablets had to be nailed to the Cross because:
1, it contained the ritual Sabbath law. Something never required of Gentiles and now to the Jew who would accept His Grace.
2, Jesus elaborated on the moral ones. So not to confuse us with two sets of moral laws He planted His New Covenant in our hearts and the New Covenant contains the Law of Love, the giving of the Holy Spirit in a special way and the few rituals He asked us to do. This covers all.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:17:54 AM
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a-lily
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
1, it contained the ritual Sabbath law. Something never required of Gentiles and now to the Jew who would accept His Grace.
Actually all throughout the OT it speaks of Gentile being required to follow the Law. Starting with the Exodus which consisted of a "mixed multitude".
quote:
2, Jesus elaborated on the moral ones. So not to confuse us with two sets of moral laws He planted His New Covenant in our hearts and the New Covenant contains the Law of Love, the giving of the Holy Spirit in a special way and the few rituals He asked us to do. This covers all.
This verse is Moses speaking about the Law...the whole Law...
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
Deut 30 :11-14
This is the New Covenant spoken by Jeremiah:
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
_____________________________
"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." -Jesus Matthew 5 : 18
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:31:19 AM
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rockv12
Posts: 62
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
RockV said: quote:
Simple reasoning can understand that Jesus was not giving an exhaustive list, but was making a point to answer the guy's question. That's like a little kid responding after hitting his sister after mom and dad tell him to behave himself..."But you didn't tell me specifically I couldn't hit her." "Thou shalt have no other gods" wasn't on the list either, but surely Jesus would agree that is a commandment to follow .
The reason Jesus didn't mention Sabbath is because it was ritual law. "Thou shall have no other Gods..." is included in the Law of Love Jesus gave us. The Royal Law. So it was on the list. He may not have listed it at that point, but He did make it very clear to us in other scripture. The Sabbath, He didn't. All Old Covenant ritual laws and the 2 tablets were nailed to the Cross.
Now you had just gotten on me and you made a point that Sabbath wasn't mentioned in that particular verse, but go on to then say Jesus gave the Royal Law of love at a different time. You are contradicting yourself. I don't think God intended Sabbath to be a mere ritual. If it's a ritual like sacrifices then why would God Himself keep it?
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:35:06 AM
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rockv12
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
2, Jesus elaborated on the moral ones. So not to confuse us with two sets of moral laws He planted His New Covenant in our hearts and the New Covenant contains the Law of Love, the giving of the Holy Spirit in a special way and the few rituals He asked us to do. This covers all.
So all we as Christians have to do is love? Love, love, love. That is 100% awesome, yes! But what is love? You grow up loving your parents, and how do you love them? Do you love them by sneaking out at night? Do you love them by going to an R-rated movie when they told you not to? Doesn't sound like love to me. You love them by honoring their wishes and doing what they tell you to do.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:50:23 AM
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EZ_03
Posts: 77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
The reason Jesus didn't mention Sabbath is because it was ritual law.
i understand you may not be listening, but perhaps for those reading...
you seem to base your anti-Sabbath arguments on a couple of main things: foremost is the fact you were burned by SDAism/ms. white and keep holding that against those of us who don't know/don't care what they're about. but here you bring up the other: namely, that there is some division in the Torah between moral and ritual/ceremonial law. this is artificial.
for those who enter the discussion with the presupposition Torah is a foreign document intended for another people in another time, it may be easy to just toss out the whole thing. for christians, however, who realize they have little (no?) moral base without Torah, it is not practical to dismiss the whole thing, so they have to make up reasons why some of it is ok, but other parts are not. for those who embrace it's relevance...there is no need to impose these contrivances.
studying the Torah will reveal there is no such distinction set in place by our Father. it is all moral. time after time, God equates our obedience with love for him, not just obedience to certain parts. listed in one breath one can find "'honor your parents and observe my Sabbath,' says the LORD." doesn't sound like God made the distinction between moral and ritual law to me. it is all a description of holy living. we are commanded in the "OT" and "NT" to be holy for He is holy. no, we can't do it all, no one can except the Master...however, as others and i have said over and over, that is a weak excuse for not trying, especially from a seasoned believer.
Yeshua teaches ALL the commandments hang on "love your God" and "love your neighbor." He never taught "the moral ones" hang or "only 9" hang...He said "ALL hang". i've said this before, but if any command is not loving one's neighbor THE ONLY LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that it must me loving one's God. ALL the commandments are moral.
you cannot sweep Sabbath under the rug because you choose to place it in some imagined category.
< Message edited by EZ_03 -- 7/19/2005 2:06:03 PM >
_____________________________
Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:08:41 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
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I just do not understand why love was suppose to be in opposition to the law.
De 10:12, 13 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul, to keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Da 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 12:13:59 PM
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rockv12
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EZ...very, very well put. If i could award points for that wonderfully said post, I would.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 2:05:57 PM
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SugarReinz
Posts: 48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EZ_03
you cannot sweep Sabbath under the rug because you choose to place it in some imagined category.
_____________________________
Shema Isra'el Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad!
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 3:26:24 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
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Chief said: quote:
I just do not understand why love was suppose to be in opposition to the law.
It isn't Chief. The law of Love that Jesus gave us incorporates all the Moral aspects of the Law plus defines what they mean. Some don't agree and that is their decision, but the Sabbath is ritual. Morality has to do with how we treat each other and how we Honor God. Ritual Sabbath, New Moons and feastdays are how we honor just that, the day for what ever reason. Were the Jews held accountable for desecrating these days. You bet they were. God gave them these special days and He demanded that they observe them. It was an act of love and obedience on their part. They were to remember how Moses led them out of captivity and bondage in Egypt. How God delivered them. That made the Sabbath special for them.
We are to remember how Christ gave His life for all mankind. A far greater event than the deliverence from the Egyptians. Sabbath was a rememberence for them. Jesus sacrifice is the rememberence for us. We have no need to keep the day that was special for the Jews. We have a far more reaching event to remember. One that covers eternity. Grace and Peace, boB
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 3:40:32 PM
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gambit
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Paul wrote that people did not receive grace through the observance of the law.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 5:37:32 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
Chief said: quote:
I just do not understand why love was suppose to be in opposition to the law.
It isn't Chief. The law of Love that Jesus gave us incorporates all the Moral aspects of the Law plus defines what they mean. Some don't agree and that is their decision, but the Sabbath is ritual. Morality has to do with how we treat each other and how we Honor God. Ritual Sabbath, New Moons and feastdays are how we honor just that, the day for what ever reason. Were the Jews held accountable for desecrating these days. You bet they were. God gave them these special days and He demanded that they observe them. It was an act of love and obedience on their part. They were to remember how Moses led them out of captivity and bondage in Egypt. How God delivered them. That made the Sabbath special for them.
We are to remember how Christ gave His life for all mankind. A far greater event than the deliverence from the Egyptians. Sabbath was a rememberence for them. Jesus sacrifice is the rememberence for us. We have no need to keep the day that was special for the Jews. We have a far more reaching event to remember. One that covers eternity. Grace and Peace, boB
Bob,
The sabbath of the Lord is not ritual. It is God's rest first and foremost. It is a commandment for man to rest and a commandment for man to work. Work and rest are not rituals. They are for our benefits. The closest to a religious ritual one can see in the decalogue is the 3rd commandment where God tells us how He must be worshipped. The 4th commandment is a remembrance of God resting so we rest as well. Doing as our Father did is not a ritual it is just like being what we really are. His children.
And in the case of remembering the works of Christ, as His people we are also to remember that we are resting on the very salvation He has provided. As He had rested so must we.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
< Message edited by Chief -- 7/19/2005 5:45:09 PM >
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 5:41:11 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gambit
Paul wrote that people did not receive grace through the observance of the law.
Of course and that is not being argued because we believe that we receive grace to obey the law.
2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Tit 2:11, 12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 7:46:58 PM
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SugarReinz
Posts: 48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: a-lily
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
1, it contained the ritual Sabbath law. Something never required of Gentiles and now to the Jew who would accept His Grace.
Actually all throughout the OT it speaks of Gentile being required to follow the Law. Starting with the Exodus which consisted of a "mixed multitude".
quote:
2, Jesus elaborated on the moral ones. So not to confuse us with two sets of moral laws He planted His New Covenant in our hearts and the New Covenant contains the Law of Love, the giving of the Holy Spirit in a special way and the few rituals He asked us to do. This covers all.
This verse is Moses speaking about the Law...the whole Law...
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
Deut 30 :11-14
This is the New Covenant spoken by Jeremiah:
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
This is interesting. The New Covenant is that? Maybe I am missing something, but if this truly is the New Covenant, to have God's Law in our minds and hearts, why are some people here not catching that the NC has to do with the Law.
_____________________________
Shema Isra'el Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad!
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:42:53 PM
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EZ_03
Posts: 77
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SR-
i'd say they just don't like calling it Torah...most christians do have most of the Torah being written on their heart. while they claim a "NT" morality or a "NC" morality, there's no such thing w/o the Torah. just about all the good deeds they do (helping the poor, the widows, the orphans, being kind to animals, helping their enemies, loving God, loving their neighbor, etc.) were Torah commands in the first place. there seem to me to be about 4 issues that make certain clothing items of theirs assume an unnatural position, which suddenly makes them cry forth "legalism!!! bondage!!! underthelaw!!!": Sabbath, feasts, kosher and sacrifices. one could no doubt live a great christian life and ignore those 4...but add those 4 and WOW!
ok, just making sure folks were paying attention...add the first 3 and WOW! (we won't resume sacrifices until Messiah comes back.)
i always have to remind myself that...christians are keeping Torah, just not quite as fully as they could (and the same goes for me - that's why i keep praying the prayer below...and hope to continue seeing more and more of them do the same...). 
_____________________________
Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 9:57:20 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
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EZ said:
quote:
ok, just making sure folks were paying attention...add the first 3 and WOW! (we won't resume sacrifices until Messiah comes back.)
That statement really puzzles me. Why, if Jesus is the supreme and only sacrifice ever needed for the salvation of mankind, would we start sacrificing animals again? Please explain.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 10:30:47 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SugarReinz
quote:
ORIGINAL: a-lily
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
1, it contained the ritual Sabbath law. Something never required of Gentiles and now to the Jew who would accept His Grace.
Actually all throughout the OT it speaks of Gentile being required to follow the Law. Starting with the Exodus which consisted of a "mixed multitude".
Please elaborate. Give me scripture. The Exodus included Gentiles who obviously converted or left the Israelites once they were out of Egypt. Never were they "required". If they did follow the law it was of there own free will. The Jews were the only chosen people.
quote:
2, Jesus elaborated on the moral ones. So not to confuse us with two sets of moral laws He planted His New Covenant in our hearts and the New Covenant contains the Law of Love, the giving of the Holy Spirit in a special way and the few rituals He asked us to do. This covers all.
This verse is Moses speaking about the Law...the whole Law...
Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.
You are right, the whole law. He was telling this to the Isralites. He surely wasn't talking to us. Maybe it sounds good and may ring your bell, but he wasn't referring to New Covenant Christians.
Deut 30 :11-14
This is the New Covenant spoken by Jeremiah:
"This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
This is interesting. The New Covenant is that? Maybe I am missing something, but if this truly is the New Covenant, to have God's Law in our minds and hearts, why are some people here not catching that the NC has to do with the Law.
It does Have to do with law Sharla. Not Old Covenant law, but the laws, Holy Spirit, baptism and the Lord's Supper that Jesus gave us. Again what do you think Paul was referring to when he said: "Christ canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He(Jesus) took it away, nailing it to His Cross." ? Please explain these verses from Col. 2 with your slant. Are you starting to believe Paul's writings aren't inspired?
< Message edited by bobservations -- 7/19/2005 10:35:52 PM >
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:03:36 PM
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EZ_03
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
EZ said:
quote:
ok, just making sure folks were paying attention...add the first 3 and WOW! (we won't resume sacrifices until Messiah comes back.)
That statement really puzzles me. Why, if Jesus is the supreme and only sacrifice ever needed for the salvation of mankind, would we start sacrificing animals again? Please explain.
as far as why we will start, you'll have to talk to God...as far as why i make that statement...
hint: it's in that oooooold testament...
the prophet ezekiel speaks (chapters 40-46 or so, i think) of a temple that this planet has never seen. he speaks of a priesthood and a Prince. he speaks of Sabbaths, festivals, appointed times, etc. (you know, the "shadows" of Colossians 2, the ones that "are to come"), he speaks of sacrifices...yucky, bloody, gross, legalistic sacrifices (the ones that Jesus came to abolish...oh wait, that's not what He said - it's the opposite of what He said).
i happen to think this yet-to-be-fulfilled prophecy will actually be literally fulfilled, and i think the Prince is Messiah. you may now proceed to change the subject and call me names, sir.
oh, and p.s. - the sacrifices have never been done, and therefore will not be done for salvation...they've always been the physical reminder and foreshadower of the sacrifice done before the foundations of the earth...but that's another thread, probably.
< Message edited by EZ_03 -- 7/19/2005 11:07:21 PM >
_____________________________
Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/19/2005 11:12:23 PM
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EZ_03
Posts: 77
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
It does Have to do with law Sharla. Not Old Covenant law, but the laws, Holy Spirit, baptism and the Lord's Supper that Jesus gave us. Again what do you think Paul was referring to when he said: "Christ canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He(Jesus) took it away, nailing it to His Cross." ? Please explain these verses from Col. 2 with your slant. Are you starting to believe Paul's writings aren't inspired?
yes, apparently in the same fashion that nomos in greek means the Mosaic Law when it's talking about something bad, but some new happy Law when it's talking about something good, torah means something different in Jeremiah 31 than it does anywhere else in the bible...ugh! (yes, that was hyperbole - i know the word can refer to other types of laws and teachings in other passages, but these refer to men. i don't think "torah" of God has too many alternate meanings in the Tanakh.)
as for colossians 2, you won't even find the word nomos, but rather the word dogma, which has nothing to do with God last i checked. in fact among all the passages in Colossians dealing with the elementary principles of this world and vain philosophies of men, you'll not find the word nomos anywhere...but don't let that stand in the way of your dogma 
_____________________________
Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/20/2005 12:02:52 PM
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Chief
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Where does it say that the moral law was nailed to the cross?
quote:
law...that was against us and that stood opposed to us That is correct. The law showed us what was meant by sin. It was against us because first, we could not attain perfection through it. The perfection required by law could not be attained. And by that token our efforts to follow it to get to heaven is in vain because once we fail in one we fail in everything. Secondly, it was against us because it is a witness against us. It is the very standard that God uses to judge us. Now, the law is not against those who believe in Christ because the Lord Jesus was punished for our iniquities and His righteousness, perfect righteousness is placed in our account.
By Christ the Law was for us because Christ perfected it for us so that we may have eternal life. What was nailed to the cross is the power of the law to convict us, it's curse and our sins. The law in and of itself, the moral laws of God never died with Christ. In fact God had promised in the new covenant that His laws will be written in our hearts. It my not be written in stone now but a more permanent medium is chosen by God. Our hearts. The law not is more alive than ever before because it resides in our souls. Written by God is not something that is an empassing statement. It is there for a reason. And since it is indelibly written by God in our hearts it still is under implementation.
In the new covenant it is not anymore a task master that points us to our conviction of sin, it is now a friend to us. It is not going to be a judge or a witness against us because our sins are forgiven and the Lord had imputed in us His righteousness. Jesus came and loved the law of God. Followed the will of the father and perfected it. He did not remove it from our midst it all the more came closer to us, in fact it is not in us, it never did die in fact it lives in us for God wrote it in the believers' hearts so that we can say with the Psalmist...THY LAW I LOVE...(Psalms 119).
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/20/2005 12:07:06 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
That statement really puzzles me. Why, if Jesus is the supreme and only sacrifice ever needed for the salvation of mankind, would we start sacrificing animals again? Please explain. It is clear in the NT that the Mosaic ceremonial laws have no more room in the New Covenant.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/20/2005 12:16:29 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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EZ, the following translations say the same thing about the ritual laws. I like this translation: 16"So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths." In all these translations Paul is telling US that we do not have to "keep" Old Covenant holy days or "keep" the dietary laws.
Why do you suppose all these translations and many more are saying the same thing. Give me a reason why I should listen to your version over all the scholars who surely know Greek and understand how other scripture agrees with their understanding of these verses.
You write with a such an agressive superior tone, so I don't expect you to take anything we say to heart. Maybe others will beter understand from my posts. A reason to continue.
Colossians 2:12-16 (New American Standard Bible)
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
12having been (A)buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also (B)raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who (C)raised Him from the dead.
13When you were (D)dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He (E)made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14having canceled out (F)the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and (G)He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15When He had (H)disarmed the (I)rulers and authorities, He (J)made a public display of them, having (K)triumphed over them through Him.
16Therefore no one is to (L)act as your judge in regard to (M)food or (N)drink or in respect to a (O)festival or a (P)new moon or a (Q)Sabbath day--
Colossians 2:12-16 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
12[Thus [a]you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [[c]as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.
13And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,
14Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared [d]completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.
15[God] disarmed the principalities and powers that were ranged against us and made a bold display and public example of them, in triumphing over them in Him and in it [the cross].
16Therefore let no one sit in judgment on you in matters of food and drink, or with regard to a feast day or a New Moon or a Sabbath.
Colossians 2:12-16 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
12For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to a new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead.
13You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all our sins. 14He canceled the record that contained the charges against us. He took it and destroyed it by nailing it to Christ's cross. 15In this way, God disarmed the evil rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross of Christ.
16So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.
Colossians 2:12-16 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
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you continue to argue with galatians who aren't in the room...